Can you remember what the arguments in favour of Moyes were? Honestly curious.
At least with Van Gaal and Mourinho you could say they were great managers in the past. I'm struggling to think of anything that made Moyes a good candidate.
Why the negativity against Ed and the Glazers? Sorry I don't follow
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Can you remember what the arguments in favour of Moyes were? Honestly curious.
At least with Van Gaal and Mourinho you could say they were great managers in the past. I'm struggling to think of anything that made Moyes a good candidate.
I agree @Ødegaard especially with the last three paragraphs.
I'm possibly speaking out of my arse, but there seems to be a conflict between incentivising (is that a word?) the CEO of a football club with what I'd assume "commercial" targets (financial) versus football ones.
The thing is I hate this argument that we can't criticise him because we "don't know what he does".
We don't know what Mourinho does or says every day, in training, before games, in his office. No one has any idea what he actually does yet people will criticise him and make up theories qute happily, based on how we perform on the pitch. As ultimately that is what his job boils down to from the fans point of view.
Applying the same to Woodward based on how well the club appears to be run and performs is no different at all. Especially as Woodward seems very keen to constantly tell the press exactly what he does, so there isn't really actually that much theorising involved.
Cause there no plan, no strategy, no idea for the long run. He just throws shit at the wall hoping it will stick. I guess the only plan is we win some title and all will be good. The best part is Ed and board suddenly decided not to back Mourinho and dictated which players he could buy (Varane or nothing). I won't even mention briefings to the media which is embarrassing beyond belief. Ed needs to stop deciding matters on football. We're no top dogs anymore and I don't see it changing soon.
I'm one of those defending Mourinho. Most of his transfers have been upgrades or potential upgrades for the club in areas we certainly needed new players in.
When we signed Matic we had a Carrick & Bastian without legs or Schneiderlin without a brain to do the job.
When we signed Lukaku, Van Gaal had already flogged all our strikers and left us with a talented but not-ready Rashford and a Rooney that had long since become too bad for the club.
When we signed Bailly & Lindelöf we were still holding on to a crooked Jones & a decent but not good enough Smalling as our defenders alongside a slow & weak make-shift alternative in Blind.
When we signed Mkhitaryan we had only Mata for the right.
Our midfield "maestro" was Herrera up until we signed Pogba. We desperately needed more quality there. Fred was also added for further quality in midfield.
Sanchez is really the only one who was signed without being needed as we already had Rashford and Martial working on the left, but we got him by flogging a player that didn't work out for us in Mkhitaryan and at the time he was seen as one of the best players in the league that any of the leagues top teams would be happy to have if they had the money for him.
Mourinho's signings have largely been at problem-areas and has 3/10 duds (Lindelöf, Sanchez & Mkhitaryan). Or since 2 were swapped, 2/9 duds.
Maybe because these are your opinions and not facts.
Presumably all the oppo fans on here voted for Davey?
Mostly 'Fergie knows best' and 'tradition'. Add to that some imaginary ones like he is good with developing players, good on transfer market, plays decent football etc.
I agree with you but that's not my point, recently a handful of posters have started to use these transfers has a defense for Mourinho and a stick against the board claiming that they weren't Mourinho's signings.
The main reason I and I imagine many people are anti glazer at the minute is the lack of spending this summer.
In Mourinhos past two seasons we have spent big money and brought in some very good players, but this season you'd have thought the well had dried up.
This calendar year we once again made hundreds of millions, sold Blind for good money, got a new sleeve sponsor, resigned Fellaini with the supposed plan of saving our budget for other areas and yet we didn't get the players we needed.
As long as United are both
After finishing second last season it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Mourinho will end up leaving/being sacked and given our obvious lack of a contingency plan we'll be starting from scratch yet again.
No worries though lads, the shares are up let's celebrate!
In Mourinhos past two seasons we have spent big money and brought in some very good players, but this season you'd have thought the well had dried up.
This calendar year we once again made hundreds of millions, sold Blind for good money, got a new sleeve sponsor, resigned Fellaini with the supposed plan of saving our budget for other areas and yet we didn't get the players we needed.
As long as United are both
- One of the worlds leading clubs in profits
- Going into a season with Young, Valencia, Jones, Smalling etc expected to start many matches
After finishing second last season it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Mourinho will end up leaving/being sacked and given our obvious lack of a contingency plan we'll be starting from scratch yet again.
No worries though lads, the shares are up let's celebrate!
Oh, I get it. As per usual I start out misunderstanding your argument.
Running a football club goes on both the manager & the board. Backing Mourinho to those signings were definitely positives by the board just as they were positives for Mourinho. It's the last transfer-window I've got a gripe with as we've seem to underinvest in the squad, and this time it feels like the problem was the board.
This. All we know is the team isn't performing how we would like for it to, but everything else is just speculation. I am a chartered accountant, and i know as much about football as the next man, so why do fans thing Ed isn't knowledgeable? He too can learn to a sufficient level.
Ed is great at bringing money in. By any means necessary
Oh, I get it. As per usual I start out misunderstanding your argument.
Running a football club goes on both the manager & the board. Backing Mourinho to those signings were definitely positives by the board just as they were positives for Mourinho. It's the last transfer-window I've got a gripe with as we've seem to underinvest in the squad, and this time it feels like the problem was the board.
That's how I see it too, I have been critical of Mourinho's coaching and the lack of improvement collectively and individually but the player that he signed were sensible a the exception of Lindelof and Mkhitaryan, I was confused by the profile of both players. If I have one issue with our transfer dealings it's the lack of actual wide players.
Concerning the board, resource management is an issue for me, I totally understand why they would be wary to make some deals, as a fan it can be frustrating but we need to understand that United isn't as rich as we like to say, we are actually pretty close to the limit. So not spending close to a 100m on a player that they don't see as a guaranteed long term investment is sensible because they will have to do it again if the player is indeed not good enough.
He knows more than anyone on here.
Yeah. I understand not wanting to sign a overpriced player. I just don't understand not having a bigger list of alternatives the manager can work with.
Assuming we agree that we need a left-back, say we have 50 million for that. We go to Juventus as they are rumored to want 50 million for him. They tell us they want 80 million for him that's not something we can go for and at the same time invest in other problem areas. Gaye for example has a 50 million euros buyout clause, Telles has a rumored 35m pound buyout clause. That's 2 alternatives of lower quality but also lower cost. We can choose to go all out on Sandro and ignore other problem areas or we can buy a lesser player to a lesser price.
Going by that logic, If we only had the money to buy Fred, Grant & Dalot due to the additional money from the Blind sale, then surely we should have prioritized in other positions than those. Gaye/Telles + a right-winger would have given us more balance in the squad. Mahrez went to City for 61-62m gbp so it's not that much money between Telles + Mahrez than Fred + Dalot + Grant, I assume.
because the buck stops at the top, when you got players underperforming in various of ways you then point to the manager for mis-judging the players quality, character, desire and to get them working as a team, then you look at woodward who screwed up tranfer targets and question his managerial selection, then you look at the owners who put woodward in charge of something that is far from his expertise in terms of footballing matters.
You might know as much as the next fan but that doesn't qualify you to make footballing decisions at one of europes tops clubs and nor does it Ed.
When people are saying he knows nothing the comparison isn't us its compared to other seasoned managers. Only a manager can have the understanding to say whether a player fits his teams tactics and mentality
I think its pretty clear that Woodward and the Glazers couldn't care less about on field success, until it starts to impact profits. If we aren't careful, we will become the new Arsenal, just content to be in the top 4. Wouldn't suprise me if our next manager was Arsene Bleeding Wenger! We can talk about how much they have spent over the last 3 years all we want, but the inactivity of this summers window is farcical considering the strength of our rivals. Clearly content with aiming for Top 4 and leaving the title winning element to Jose. Jose has never been an amazing 'Coach' if we are honest
This is one of and depending on the year THE biggest sports franchise in the world. Yet its treated as a cash cow by people who arrived at the club long after it was established as a super power in sport. So feck them. The turnover this club makes, we should be challenging for Champions Leagues every year. You look at Man City in the same city as us, and it amazes me how these thick cnuts in charge allowed Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne and the likes end up in a blue shirt.
Especially when we allowed Ronaldo to leave for £80 million and replaced him with Valencia (who'd already been agreed), Obertain and Michael fecking Owen. What other club would that be acceptable? Where is the argument that in 2010/11/12 that we couldnt have desperately used Silva and Aguero in our side? Even Pep Guadiola. What's he doing as the City manager? Its because this club isnt equipped to prop him up, because we're to busy with other areas of the business, instead of matters on the football field.
We can sack Mourinho, and I'm in favour of that decision. But until this board starts using significant capital on the field (because we can certainly afford it), then we'll be chasing the pack for a while.
Especially when we allowed Ronaldo to leave for £80 million and replaced him with Valencia (who'd already been agreed), Obertain and Michael fecking Owen. What other club would that be acceptable? Where is the argument that in 2010/11/12 that we couldnt have desperately used Silva and Aguero in our side? Even Pep Guadiola. What's he doing as the City manager? Its because this club isnt equipped to prop him up, because we're to busy with other areas of the business, instead of matters on the football field.
We can sack Mourinho, and I'm in favour of that decision. But until this board starts using significant capital on the field (because we can certainly afford it), then we'll be chasing the pack for a while.
Exactly, we could have spent a similar amount and have a totally different dynamic, we just made choices that would have marginal influence in the short term. I'm not even bothered by the moves because long term they could be great but I'm bothered by the lack of balance from a tactical standpoint, if you make these decisions you need to compensate with other tools, tactic being one.
No, he really doesn't because if he is vetoing the choices made me Mourinho it proves he knows absolutely feck all because even on here we know Mourinho needed the defenders he asked for.
Without getting into the politics of it all again, he's had two centre backs he's asked for already. The decision not to pay £60m for Aldeweirald was not necessarily NOT a footballing decision.
@vidic blood & sand do me a favour and look how the club was purchased by them and what they have taken out. Then look at how they constructed a payment plan to pay off the debt they brought. Not only was it on to illegal but the underinvestment has been disgraceful since they arrived. Only this week figures have came out with the club valued at 4 billion. The Glazer's have taken 100's of million out of United and are cashing in on the brand created long before they got here. The reason it's been glossed over is because Fergie done an incredible job while they were here, on very limited investment each summer. The lack of direction and investment they have made is astonishing. Clueless business men with one goal, just bump the brand with names to make money. No infrastructure or long term planning in place, never mind football people making the final decision on transfers. I'm not sure if it was ignorance or trying to provoke a reaction by creating this thread? Using word's like generous to describe them is astonishing.
Love United, Hate Glazer!
Love United, Hate Glazer!
Clueless on the pitch and clueless off it.
How do you assume that?
I disagree, Ed isn't a manager either but the top boss, and as the boss he don't get to know everything, but have good enough account of what happens. We don't have a sporting director - something i agree we need, but it is immature of us fans thinking Ed knows nothing or that he doesn't source counsel where he has shortfalls.
What i'd say is the process needs to be streamlined for better efficiency by having a sporting director to balance the gains v cost of acquiring players, but the notion that he knows nothing, that i disagree with.
He's CEO of Man Utd
He's a ex-banker ffs. I doubt he's played a minute of football in his life.
People find Glazers/Woodward to be effective punching bags when all else fails.
Robbie Savage has played more than a minute of football. Would you prefer him?
It's basically because they refused to pay £120m+ for Willian and Maguire/Alderweireld. It's all their fault that Jose can't get the current team playing any sort of decent football.
A little unfair I think. He's also pulled off some fantastic signings. Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez and Di Maria were huge marquee signings and all were major coups at the time. Taking Matic from Chelsea was a great deal. Fred and Bailly are very talented players. Even Mkhitaryan from Dortmund seemed a great deal when it happened. You can point to Fellaini, Falcao and the Fabregas debacle but he has brought in some very good players.
There is a major issue however and it's the structure around player recruitment. LVG spending all of that money on a squad rebuild while on a short term deal seemed idiotic at the time. Just over 2 years later, Jose is still trying to sell every player LVG signed. Jose's signings have been better but will they suit the next manager?
The club needs to get much smarter over how it identifies and recruits players. Going for Harry Maguire after the world cup shows incredibly bad planning. With the huge sums being invested in these players, it's negligent not to have someone in the club whose job it is to manage that process.
City set the whole club up with the intention of bringing in Guardiola. It was a long term plan and it seems to be working out pretty well for them.
100% this.
Add to that allowing the two football men in Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill to leave at the same time with about 3 months notice.
No other major business would allow two senior figures to leave, at the same time, without at least 12 months notice. Regardless of their personal circumstances.
One is for the future and one is injured very often, so it shouldn't have been seen as an issue when the other centrebacks equate to nothing more than rocks. The fact that going against Mourinho's wishes wasn't a football decision shows Ed knows nothing about football because if he did he'd have sanctioned it.
Exactly! It’s just impatient fans looking for something to blame. As a man once said, the football is officially going on forever. We’ll be fine. I quite enjoy it tbh.
I'm of the opinion they have purposely held back money this year with the view to spend next year. Liverpool and City aren't going to be caught this year really, we have too many players on the books that will be gone next year judging by the amount of contracts running out.
It makes more financial sense to hold back this year, see out contracts and re-invest heavy next year. Even though I wish we'd just bought what was desperately needed.
It makes more financial sense to hold back this year, see out contracts and re-invest heavy next year. Even though I wish we'd just bought what was desperately needed.
I have no issue with the club – finally – implementing an actual transfer policy, i.e. targeting a certain player profile, etc.
But the question is, if such a policy does exist now (see Woodward’s alleged briefing), when was it introduced? How long has Jose been aware of it? Did he insist on targets that don’t fit the profile? And, if so, why the hell wasn’t he simply fired?
I won’t even get into the possible consequences of having Woodward play DOF and decide what sort of players we should go after – that’s another debate. But something is very wrong if the manager provides the “DOF” with a list of targets that aren’t in line with whatever policy has been decided on. That should never happen, for obvious reasons. Or, rather, it can only happen if there’s an outrageous lack of communication going on.
Caveat: I’m not saying the above actually happened. But if the “briefing” is genuine, it pretty much indicates as much, or at least that something is very odd about the way the pair of them communicate.
But the question is, if such a policy does exist now (see Woodward’s alleged briefing), when was it introduced? How long has Jose been aware of it? Did he insist on targets that don’t fit the profile? And, if so, why the hell wasn’t he simply fired?
I won’t even get into the possible consequences of having Woodward play DOF and decide what sort of players we should go after – that’s another debate. But something is very wrong if the manager provides the “DOF” with a list of targets that aren’t in line with whatever policy has been decided on. That should never happen, for obvious reasons. Or, rather, it can only happen if there’s an outrageous lack of communication going on.
Caveat: I’m not saying the above actually happened. But if the “briefing” is genuine, it pretty much indicates as much, or at least that something is very odd about the way the pair of them communicate.