Will that sort of goal be coached out of Martial?

Sparky Rhiwabon

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From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loved to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
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You're being silly.
 
Judging from van Gaal's comments on the goal I doubt it. He seemed impressed with the speed and accuracy of the dribbling and then said the finish was brilliant, smiling all the way through so I think it's what he expected more than anything.
 
All I'd say is for now, just enjoy the goal. Enjoy the moment. And embrace the potential and excitement. It feels great having a kid who truly looks like he could become something. And we actually have 2 (3 if you include Shaw through no one goes mad over defenders).

I would also say that, can it be coached out of him? Do you think you could stop Nani from doing that kind of attacking play? Ronaldo? Messi? Point is, if that is his game (and let's be honest we don't know if it is yet as we've watching him for 30 minutes) then it won't change. He might be frozen out or sold if he doesn't fit the philosophy but, I don't think so. LVG said we needed pace in the final third.
 
Van gaal doesn't ask to play safer, he wants them to take the better decision, the problem is that our players think too much probably because they fear the subsequent video session.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I hope so. Can you expand a little?
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Van Gaal favours possession but this whole "doesn't like players that dribble" is a silly nonsense. Memphis is always looking to take people on despite months of Van Gaal's apparent safety first coaching.

Also, Robben.
 
Riz said:
Judging from van Gaal's comments on the goal I doubt it. He seemed impressed with the speed and accuracy of the dribbling and then said the finish was brilliant, smiling all the way through so I think it's what he expected more than anything.
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Yes, although its easy to smile when it results in a goal. Will he still be smiling when 4 or 5 of them in a half result in United losing possession which, lets be honest, is more likely - its just the nature of that sort of direct play?
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
Click to expand...

Luke Shaw goes bombing forward often. He understands English. Either he isn't listening to his instruction or he is not given any instruction to not take risks.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
Click to expand...

Yes you're being silly. LvG was absolutely buzzing about his "dribbling one-on-one" after the game so it'll be encouraged.
 
No I don't think so. It better not as Wilsons game is similar, only he has to develop the strength. I think LVG is thinking how we play is fine, but we need better players to make it work. Just like Neymar or a Bale on top of what we have - would improve the team greatly. Martial could be at that level over the coming years and when you have that talent, then great!
 
I don't know where this myth has come from - Van Gaal loves dribblers and sees them as key to his tactics.

No coach would be able to get Mata, Rooney or Fellaini dribbling past a defence.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Yes, although its easy to smile when it results in a goal. Will he still be smiling when 4 or 5 of them in a half result in United losing possession which, lets be honest, is more likely - its just the nature of that sort of direct play?
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True but we often see van Gaal restrained in interviews when discussing our goals and quickly moving onto other topics, this one he seemed almost smug about as if he knew what to expect. Sorry I'm sounding like them fecking body language experts. :lol:
 
I'm convinced people on here love to be negative just for the sake of it these days.
 
He soecifically said he wanted players with speed and dribbling ability. This hatred for dribbling is a false accusation thrown against LVG.
 
hurricane thunderclap said:
Or , not doing enough on the pitch will result in spending a large part of the season in the stands.
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Obviously, but in the case of Nani you know that it's because he did it on the field, but was underwhelming and then spent a lot of time on the bench.
 
Carl said:
Van Gaal favours possession but this whole "doesn't like players that dribble" is a silly nonsense. Memphis is always looking to take people on despite months of Van Gaal's apparent safety first coaching.

Also, Robben.
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Also if you listen the yesterday post match interview with Blind and Young, Young clearly said that LVG wanted from him to take on players...
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Am I just being silly?
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Nope, you aren't. I hope so as well, when Di Maria joined you could see the guy pick up the ball and run off with it and everyone stood around going "wtf mayne why you running off like that the gaff will go mentul". I hope Van Gaal leaves the leash off of him.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
Click to expand...
LVG breaks down our play when we have possession into 4 phases, the first 2 phases are about playing out form the back and creating the platform for an incisive pass. This is the role of the back 6 outfield players, that isn't to say they aren't allowed to play the killer ball, it just means they are restricted in playing it unless the odds are favourable in the pass being completed, more akin to percentage football. The front 4 are charged with the 3rd and 4th phases, they have a little more freedom in their play and can take risks, the majority of goals and assists will come from the front 4 players.

Martial will be one of those 4 players given the freedom to express themselves so I can't see his style of player altered too much.
 
His ability not only to run at defenders but mainly to dribble and create or finish moves while running with the ball is what has established him as a huge talent in the first place. That is also the reason why we broke the bank to sign him. He can hold onto the ball, like your typical target man, but his abilities on the ball allow him to create something out nothing. So, i don't believe we payed all that money just to turn him into the next Lukaku or something.

Plus this whole "LvG doesn't want his players to dribble" hype is a bit silly. If there's one thing that you can "blame' LvG throughout his career, is that he depended a lot on his more talented players to win matches, perhaps more than he should have. As a result when he loses the dressing room or when his star players don't perform well, he usually gets sacked.

There's also the belief that he desires his eleven players on the pitch to operate as a well oiled machine. While this is true, it applies to all top managers who are at the helm of all the big European clubs. I guess this has to do with the notion that Sir Alex used to give absolute freedom of movement to his creative players. Well, he didn't. There were specific ways by which his United sides tried to create chances and defended throughout his career.

There is nothing LvG would want more than to have four players up front in his version of 4-2-3-1 who can hold onto the ball under pressure and get past defenders. It would simplify things a a lot. Our forwards' inability to keep the ball in the final third when closed down and get past defenders in 1v1 situations is one of the main reasons the defenders and the two holding midfielders pass the ball sideways all the time and can't move further up the pitch.

I know it might seem weird to some but Martial is exactly the type of attacking player LvG wants to have at his disposal.
 
So far this season, the only players who have seemed to take any risks are Memphis, Rooney and to some extent Mata. In other words, the front three players.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the other players are strictly instructed to play it safe, while the front three gets license to be creative. Seen plenty of times this season, where our MF/fullbacks have had the ball and the opposing team have been out of balance where we chose to recycle the ball instead of having a go at them.

Possesion football is fine and all, but you need to hit teams on the break when you have the chance. If we keep this up, any team who is happy to defend and hit us on the break will give us lots of trouble
 
United again! said:
Nope, you aren't. I hope so as well, when Di Maria joined you could see the guy pick up the ball and run off with it and everyone stood around going "wtf mayne why you running off like that the gaff will go mentul". I hope Van Gaal leaves the leash off of him.
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Di Maria had other problem. He is very incosistent player on the wing and as a winger he is never worth anything we or PSG paid for him. He often tried to gamble a lot but it just didn't work. He was really in bad form and as much as i seen from him in the PSG shirt he still is.
His only WC season was when he played in midfield three but we LVG want something else from his midfielders what Di Maria can offer.
Players like Mata and Depay often risk a lot but they play week in week out. And judging by yesterday post match interviews you could hear Young saying that LVG wanted him to take on players or saying LVG how great a pass was from Carrick to Herrera.
LVG don't want negative aproach from our players, he just want that their decision making improves.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
From what I have seen of Martial, he loves to run at defenders and try and take them on and beat them. When it works it can end up in a great goal or assist, like we saw yesterday. However, it is high risk and, more often than not, it ends up with his team losing possession.

Martial will not really have had much coaching from LVG and his staff yet - can't even speak English - so he was just playing his natural game.

I am slightly worried that once he starts playing regularly and the other side of his natural game emerges (i.e. we lose possession sometimes) LVG will start instructing him to play safer - like all our other players now do.

Am I just being silly?
Click to expand...
Turning that goal into an excuse for another anti-Van Gaal rant.

Well done, well done.
 
Bobcat said:
So far this season, the only players who have seemed to take any risks are Memphis, Rooney and to some extent Mata. In other words, the front three players.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the other players are strictly instructed to play it safe, while the front three gets license to be creative. Seen plenty of times this season, where our MF/fullbacks have had the ball and the opposing team have been out of balance where we chose to recycle the ball instead of having a go at them.

Possesion football is fine and all, but you need to hit teams on the break when you have the chance. If we keep this up, any team who is happy to defend and hit us on the break will give us lots of trouble
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Shaw and the number 10 (Januzaj or Herrera) often take risks.

On the other hand Fletcher said in one of his interviews that SAF never wanted from his midfielders to join the attack as a reason why our midfielders rarely score.
 
I don't think so. Ribery and Robben at Bayern were allowed to run with the ball, take risks, and shoot from outside the area.
 
I did not think it was possible to draw anything negative out of that Martial goal. The caf has managed it though!
 
Akash said:
I did not think it was possible to draw anything negative out of that Martial goal. The caf has managed it though!
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even when Van Gaal signs good players, there is such hate for Van Gaal from some nutters on here that they have to somehow claim that the player is good in spite of Van Gaal.
 
Yes. Van Gaal will also tell him never to score a goal again.
 
I wouldn't worry about that. Van Gaal loves a player who can dribble and create something on his own, he just likes the player with the license to do that to be a good decision maker as well. Martial seems to fit the bill, unlike di Maria.
 
United again! said:
Nope, you aren't. I hope so as well, when Di Maria joined you could see the guy pick up the ball and run off with it and everyone stood around going "wtf mayne why you running off like that the gaff will go mentul". I hope Van Gaal leaves the leash off of him.
Click to expand...

The problem with Di Maria is that he would pick up the ball barely past the halfway line and try to beat two or three men from there. Often when he lost the ball he would just stand in place looking sorry for himself while the other team broke against our exposed defence. Even when he beat a man, it didn't accomplish much given he's in the middle of the pitch with plenty more defenders to go.

Martial's dribbling on the other hand was very smart. He cut inside and manoeuvred himself into a position where he could get a one on one just by beating Skrtel. Not to mention he had no other option, given how isolated he was in that attack.
 
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