The goals are not there but they haven't really been there from any of our players over the past couple of years. He is however effective, which is why LvG has been featuring him prominently on the tour instead of Memphis, which leads me to believe he will start the season on the left, since he fits into the squad more so than most players.
Winger Discussion
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The goals are not there but they haven't really been there from any of our players over the past couple of years. He is however effective, which is why LvG has been featuring him prominently on the tour instead of Memphis, which leads me to believe he will start the season on the left, since he fits into the squad more so than most players.
Me too, but likely he will be though, especially for the tougher games, I see it more Schweinstegier - Schneiderlin though.
I agree it's frustrating, we finally have the ideal components for a midfield 3 and a proper wide forward for the left of a front 3, but we can't play the 4-3-3 as we don't have the right type of #9, so we bench our most creative CM and move our bright new wide player into a role he's never played in order to compensate.
He's playing there as we've had to use Memphis centrally to support Rooney who lacks the attributes a lone #9 needs in the system. The fact is we need goals from all of the front players and he offers none, it's why LvG singled him out, he clearly sees he's a weak link if the goal is to compete for the title as opposed to just top 4.
He is an old fashioned winger that is true, but we aren't playing that way anymore and the game has moved on, the fullbacks are the source of most crossing in the top teams these days, the wide forwards are there to link with the striker and score goals.
We play too narrow imo without at least one genuine winger. Which is probably why lvg played mata on one wing as inside forward and Young on the other side as a true winger. Mixing it up
Young may not be feared but he definitely took a lot of RBs to the cleaners last season. The likes of bellerin who were really good all season struggled to manage Young. Attacking wise he was really good and had rvp and falcao been a little more accurate he could have got more than his 6 or so assists. And in addition he puts in tackles and defends well. I think for now LvG sees him there for these reasons.
I think he will at the start but then he'll fight his way back in... Or make a switch to a 4-3-3 and have him in alongside both Schweiny and Schneiderlin with Memphis and Pedro out wide or something. I don't think he'll be on the bench for too long, though he will at the start probably.
firstly if we do call him effective it has to be measured in some way. his chances created stats certainly dont lie. he has created almost as many chances as any of the 'better' players of united last season. therefore he will definitely start the season on the left but im not sure if he will be as effective as he would have been if fellaini would be starting. in the long term of course we need to be looking at an upgrade sooner rather than later.
I disagree. As long as he is effective on the left in terms of creating width, crossing, taking on defenders, he will continue to play. The goals aren't of the highest importance since neither Young nor Nani have managed over 10 goals and yet have carved out successful careers as wingers. I do believe Young is capable of 8-10 goals if he plays consistently. More importantly, he's a team player who appeals to LvG as evidenced by the fact that he used him frequently last year as well as on this tour.
Young may not be feared but he definitely took a lot of RBs to the cleaners last season. The likes of bellerin who were really good all season struggled to manage Young. Attacking wise he was really good and had rvp and falcao been a little more accurate he could have got more than his 6 or so assists. And in addition he puts in tackles and defends well. I think for now LvG sees him there for these reasons
Yes but you'll notice LVG highlighted or made a point of young. There's only one way to read into what he said. I think great players are often lucky players. Young get's some good assists but none of them lucky. He's a hit or miss kind of player and if we're playing the top teams (though Young did well in some of the big games last season) - he's 30-31. This is the best we're going to get and I think LVG is maybe looking for someone even more direct and has a real goal threat.
I think most would have thought it'd be depay but I guess he has other ideas.
Yes but you'll notice LVG highlighted or made a point of young. There's only one way to read into what he said. I think great players are often lucky players. Young get's some good assists but none of them lucky. He's a hit or miss kind of player and if we're playing the top teams (though Young did well in some of the big games last season) - he's 30-31. This is the best we're going to get and I think LVG is maybe looking for someone even more direct and has a real goal threat.
I think most would have thought it'd be depay but I guess he has other ideas.
He's a team player, a variable that can't be measured by trawling through the stats section. He integrates will with the squad that we have and will probably continue to play there until unless LvG opts to play Memphis on the left, which I doubt he will.
Continued from the highjacked Pedro thread....
Im happy with Young, Memphis, Januzaj and Lingard for the wide spots but id like to see one big name signing if we lose Di Maria.
I think he's an miserable French cnut who should have been sacked by Arsenal a long time ago.
Memphis/Januzaj/Pereira/Young/Mata/Lingard (Wilson)
Yep I think we're good, 6/7 players for 2 positions? Ofcourse one of them may be a CF and even then we've got Fellaini fighting.
Yep I think we're good, 6/7 players for 2 positions? Ofcourse one of them may be a CF and even then we've got Fellaini fighting.
Same. Unless there's a top winger available, I'm happy with our options. Plenty of tools for LvG to use in case of injury/loss of form etc.
I'm a great believer in the youth but for a title challenging team we have too many with a point to prove (at least the ones you've listed). Young is the only one you've listed that's established and before last season most people, probably wanted him sold. Di Maria is probably gone sadly.
If you look at where we are now, we're weaker out wide then we've been in over 20+ years. They'll be great players for us i'm sure but I would agree with LVG that a creative, quick productive wide man is a must. Having said that, I would have still wanted us to get Sterling and it's annoying they wouldn't deal with us.
actually the fishing for stats will tell you all you need to know about why young is playing while others are not. i think what van gaal likes about him is that he doesnt take unnecessary risks and doesnt give the ball away while still offering a reasonable threat in attack. that being said, its too early to tell. there are always surprises through the year in terms of team selection (felllaini for eg.) and there still the matter of the window being open. i wouldnt be surprised if by mid season we find depay being played on the left and a new player playing alongside rooney.
It's not like no one else can head the ball in. Rooney is a very good header of the ball
If I remember right, he played Memphis in a similar role in the WC too. I think lvg probably thinks he is better there than on the wings. And yes, young isn't world class. We could definitely do with a robben Neymar kind of player there but I don't know who we can get. I think later on in the season we may see Memphis moving left if need be.
He was dreadful wide last season and is maybe been groomed as a striker which excites me tbh, Young is adequate nothing else, Lingard is unproven at the top level, as is Memphis although he could obviously make the step and be fantastic.....we need an elite winger no doubt at all, especially if Mata is moved to the number 10 position, which he has to be long term or he needs to be sold.
Young and Memphis will be alright. Januzaj and Lingard I am unsure of but IF Di Maria leaves then we MUST replace him with a top player (Pedro, Reus etc) If we don't then we will be in a little trouble.
I added Di Maria to that list but if he leaves then he MUST be replaced.
We could get by with what we have but ideally we'd replace ADM with another high quality player.
That you did, I was just agreeing with you in a round about way.
No I know. I don't want Di Maria to leave. That chip against Leicester shows what he can do. All he needs to do is bulk up a bit and get used to the challenges.
no one wants di maria to leave (if he wasnt such a pus*y). hes world class but his attitude is third class. he shown a complete lack of respect for the club. would prefer it if we brought another world class player in and then let him go.
Just don't think he want to, the hunger has maybe gone from him now.
I hate the concept of wingers. IMO you should either be a wide forward or a wide playmaker. Both have to contribute a lot in terms of scoring or providing. They are pure attackers in a 4-3-3(something I doubt we'll see this season). Having someone who just stands on the line, beats a man, and delivers a ball is a waste of an offensive player. Its one of the reasons english football has always been behind most of its counterparts. The reason why the likes of Giggs never became superstars.
Young sadly falls into a bracket of players that have little to no use. He's not going to create or score enough so he has to suffer the consequences. Him playing generally doesn't equal him affecting the game in a way we need from him.
Young sadly falls into a bracket of players that have little to no use. He's not going to create or score enough so he has to suffer the consequences. Him playing generally doesn't equal him affecting the game in a way we need from him.
Well Mata is part of the problem, it's why we are so lopsided.
I think it's too late now in truth, unless a club suddenly feels the need to generate some funds or a player and coach have a huge falling out that leaves an opening for us to capitalize.
He'll continue to play because we haven't got anyone better, compare him to the best teams that LvG wants to compete with and he's way below the level needed. In the modern system the wide players are not there for crossing and width alone, they are expected to be incisive and score, he isn't good enough at that aspect, it is why LvG singled him out as inferior to the likes of Hazard, Ronaldo and Neymar and said he wants a player on that level, he realizes we aren't competing for anything while we keep a player as average as Young as a main starter.
Probably with good reason we haven't bought any one, because LvG likely believes he has enough depth at LW with Young and Memphis capable of operating there. We're not going to go out and buy a player like Neymar or Ronaldo, so no use in harping on about fictitious players we aren't going to buy.
i dont think young falls into that bracket. in his aston villa days he played as a LF of sorts and did quite well. his hard working nature works against him. hes being used as a winger. in my mind hes a left forward who has capability to score goals which has been wasted for the last few years.
i also dont agree that wingers are a waste and it purely depends on what style of football you want to see.
The manager was the one that specifically brought it up saying he needed one to compete, so if you are saying he'll make do with someone average like Young and simply settle for another top 4 finish then maybe that is the case, he clearly name checked Young as inferior because he feels he is not good enough and that is where he needs to add a top player if we are to compete.
He says that about all players, which is hardly an indictment on Young. He just wants more competition to push each player at each position.
He clearly says he needs a game changer and cites Young as being beneath Neymar and that we need that type of player in order to secure titles, I don't see how he can make it clearer, and lets be honest upgrading Young is hardly a difficult task even without getting someone on the Neymar/Hazard level.
Highly doubt that. If he really felt that way and thought the position was a liability he would've prioritized buying a replacement, which he obviously didn't.He did buy Memphis, but there's little indication he will play on the left. So if LvG goes into next year with Young as his starter, we can clearly assume he is confident Ashley can get the job done.
He doesn't have anywhere near the offensive intelligence needed to be a wide forward. His movement in the final third is pretty poor and he isn't the greatest at creating space for his own shot, not that the shot is any good mind.
Wingers inhibit the teams ability to play through the middle without overcomiting men. It becomes an occupational hazard regardless of the football that a team is trying to play. Compare the set up between a our 99 team and our 08 team and you'll realise that both were great direct teams and teams through the middle. However the 08 team didn't need a midfielder(like how Scholes used to) to continuously make runs through the middle thus make our midfield defensively week.
You only need to look around to see better players than Ashley Young, in fact I can't believe we are having such a long debate over such a mediocre player. Anyway Pedro might well end up being the buy to replace Young. Of course the Memphis issue is forced on LvG because our #9 is a weak link and getting a top one of those is doubly difficult.
We're having a debate about it because you seem to think you know more than LvG. He keeps playing Young and you keep arguing that he doesn't rate him.
Yeah maybe Adnan or pereira will play there next season
Willian is a similar player in Chelsea. Most of what he does is work hard and help out ivanovic
Took me a minute