World Cup 2018 & 2022 bids

Wasn't for Germany, or Brazil, so it's a reasonable mix in my view..

Oh it is for Brazil. Whilst they deserve it for who they are (oddly something loads of people - I think even you - seem to think arrogant and redundant about our merits, not that we ever even used it in our bid anyway...but hey, this is Brazil so it's different.. somehow.) their technical merits are shocking. Safety, stadia, travel, social problems all remain a massive problem. Brazil wanted the WC just as much as the others for a special Sepp'll Fix it badge.


... Best place for fans, well now, Qatar will be a fantastic place for fans from the Arab world, which is why Blatter said it went to them.

But again, when the Arab World start brining even close to the amount of players, teams and fans then we'll discuss the merit of them deserving to host it...It's exactly like game 39 in that sense because it's a showcase for a wider audience - like an exhibition game would be - and NOT an event logical for most of those likely to be competing or following their own teams..The Olympics is a World thing because every country competes....Almost 200 nations competed in Beijing. The World Cup contains 32 countries. How many of them are going to be Arab countries? This is the fundamental thing people just ignore when talking about the World Cup as a concretely "World" event. This idea that everyone deserves to see a World Cup without having to be particularly good enough to get in one is a little odd.

Yes loads of ME kids will get to see their favorite players, and there'll be a lot of neutral interest, but they won't all come out en masse for it unless their own teams are competing, just as the Barmy Army wouldn't travel if England didn't qualify and how Africa started to lose a little interest once all their teams had been knocked out...The only difference between giving Qatar the World Cup and holding the Cricket WC in America is the size of the place. But no one wants to host the Cricket WC in America because everyone knows that's a stupid idea.

But yes it's a worthy endevour to host in the Mid. East (the saving grace of Qatar's hostship is the Africa like continentalism), providing it's balanced with the right needs for it's core base and it's players.

For example a risky country with lots to build and safety issues should be balanced by a country with sound infrastructure and low risk. A new developing country should be balanced by one with a rich football history and bulging support. The latter they've done alright in.

However since 2002, every World Cup bar one has gone to a country who came 2nd or below in the bid suitability assessments (the one that didn't was Brazil comically enough, who ran unopposed) and all of them bar one has had to build significant infrastructure from scratch (Qatar will seem to have to build a giant Sun screen as well)...so the fact they've never awarded it to a technically accomplished and historically strong bid since Germany (which was a shambles and a bribe fest anyway) shows quite clearly how unfootball orientated the decision making is.

And whilst it's all very nice and worthy and fluffy, it's the wrong thing for an organisation like FIFA to be making their raison d'etre. FIFA's MO should be providing the best tournament, boldly going where no man has gone before should be a worthwhile, but secondary priority IMO.
 
What about fans in the Middle East who follow football all year every year?
How will holding the WC in Qatar help them?

There's an awful lot of poverty in the ME, (excluding the rich in the oil rich states) most of them can't afford flights to anywhere, let alone afford the cost of flying to Qatar and paying for hotel bills etc. Doesn't matter where in the world it's held as far as they're concerned because they'll just be watching it on telly as usual.

Shouldn't think it matters much to the rich fans in the ME either (apart from a prestige thing) because they can afford to go anywhere in the world.

You have to remember that there isn't a lot of middle ground out there as far as wealth is concerned. It won't help the average fan in the street at all.
 
Yeah, and that's why the English keep complaining about Latin diving. Football's cultural homebase, i.e. how people actually play the game, is influenced more by Latin America, and the Mediterranean countries.

But people don't complain about the Latin skill aspect, which many say our players need to improve at i.e are trying to embrace. Diving is so unpopular simply because its annoying and cheating


The World Cup only comes by once every 4 years, so some people will miss out. There were 5 bids for each tournament, that means in 8 countries some football fans are having the mother of all whinges. Doesn't mean it's ridiculous they missed out.

It doesnt no, But I'd say a lot of places have the right to be pissed off considering how many times they have bid and thier sustained intrest in it.



Football coming home is almost a World Cup slogan here. It's terrible.

I've not noticed it much but I'd say that's no diff to athens using a similar slogan for the olympics.




What about fans in the Middle East who follow football all year every year?

Well firstly thier is a shitload less of them than in Holland, England even Australia and U.S.A. Im sure they can wait more than other countries can, It was thier first ever bid for christs sake, shows there was much intrest previously.
 
Can someone tell me why it's considered alright to solicit votes from others in your favor? I find it a rather strange concept.
 
While my gripe isn't really with the Russian bid, don't you think the idea that the World Cup is now some kind of "pimp my country" excersie rather ridiculous?....Russia hadn't hosted one before not because of a devious western conspiracy, but because it's standards and racial tolerance were well below what was required...Rather than clean up their game with the incentive of being able to bid for the World Cup, they've used cleaning up their game as a reason for FIFA to give them the World Cup first. That's completely the wrong way around!

Again, the best bidders from who's point of view? Not the fans, or players. They will always be better of in a Spain/England/Holland. Whilst I don't really begrudge Russia, I think it's ridiculous that we've now had 5 out the last 6 WC hosts decided not on who's the best for the tournament, it's players and it's fans, but on some FIFA politiking "pimp my country" excersize. Plus not to mention what's the point of all the risk assessment and technical aspects if it's not relevant.

So why don't we just narrow down the list of World Cup hosting candidates to a small bunch of economically advanced countries and be done with it? feck the rest of the world, let them wait till their infrastructure and racial tolerance standards catch up with the best of us, right?

I was wondering, were there any racism issues left unsolved in England by 1966 or was it already a paradise on Earth?
 
Prince William and David Cameron jerking off about how much they love football and England and David Beckham telling them about his dead Grandfather who died this time last year.

Disagree entirely, I thought the English presentation was excellent, but as many have alluded to.. the campaigning process/the bribing process.. call it what you will was conducted over a lengthy period of time.

In the majority of cases the presentations in of themselves meant jackshit, they'd already decided on whom they were going to lend their votes in the first place.

Another issue, why put countries through the process of technical reports etc if they're not going to matter an iota. Just be honest at the beginning and say we don't care how capable your nation is at hosting the tournement, we just care about the moolah ahem I mean the legacy you can create as a result of playing host to the beautiful game.

Those two nations had the worst technical reports. In Russia's case why has Fifa not asked it to stamp out racism, why does Fifa never take these issues seriously as the governor of the International game.

Corruption apart, I can honestly see why they would want to go to Russia.. its one of the worlds most historic nations, it has supplied great players and its a fantastic sporting nation, if done well the legacy element that Fifa supposedly aspire to clearly will be fulfilled by going to Russia in 2018.

Its just the Qatar bid that disgusts me, it really does. If it was being hosted by Egypt/Morroco and some games hosted in Qatar and the UAE, a mass Middle-eastern effort then fair play, it would be an interesting spectacle. As it stands a feckin joke, I don't care how many 3rd world countries recieve some nice bricks from their stadiums or if the scousers manage to get a labia shaped roof for Anfield, its just not on for me.
 
So why don't we just narrow down every World Cup hosting candidates to a small bunch of economically advanced countries and be done with it? feck the rest of the world, let them wait till their infrastructure and racial tolerance standards catch up with the best of us, right?

I was wondering, were there any racism issues left unsolved in England by 1966 or was it already a paradise on Earth?

On the other hand, why don't we just tell every country who's already hosted a WC never to bother applying again? Hand the WC to a new country every time, but only those involving high risk.
 
If it was being hosted by Egypt/Morroco and some games hosted in Qatar and the UAE, a mass Middle-eastern effort then fair play, it would be an interesting spectacle. As it stands a feckin joke, I don't care how many 3rd world countries recieve some nice bricks from their stadiums or the scousers managed to get a labia shaped roof for Anfield, its just not on for me.

Wow, a WC spread from NW Africa to the Persian Gulf?
 
I don't disagree actually. I would've preferred to see a combined Gulf bid(UAE, Qatar and Bahrain). But they've got the money to stage the event...unlike say Egypt. And I thought Morocco were a bit unlucky actually, no nation's done more than Morocco to put African football on the map - except for maybe Cameroon, which is why I thought they should've staged the event ahead of South Africa. But heh, that's FIFA eh.

Morocco would've been a very good choice I think. Geographically it's the filling in a European/African sandwhich, but with much of the aesthetics of and culture of a middle eastern country. I would've loved to have seen a World Cup in Morroco, it fullfils nearly every criteria for me.


So why don't we just narrow down the list of World Cup hosting candidates to a small bunch of economically advanced countries and be done with it? feck the rest of the world, let them wait till their infrastructure and racial tolerance standards catch up with the best of us, right?

I was wondering, were there any racism issues left unsolved in England by 1966 or was it already a paradise on Earth?

Have you read any of my other posts or are you just being righteously gimpy?

It should straddle the two philosophies and balance it's agenda between worthy expansion and practical core support. I've never said anything remotely like what you've proposed. Hush yourself boi.
 
Wow, a WC spread from NW Africa to the Persian Gulf?

Why not, we could call it footballs coming home to one of the cradles of civillisation.

Logistics can't be any more difficult than Russia and it would be a far more memorable experience for the foreign fan then travelling around the mighty Qatar. 'Oh look there's a stadium', walk 5 metres forward 'And oh look theres another one'.
 
English have such a poor way of loosing. It's never them, it is always somebody else. The system is flawed, the process is rigged, etc...This is embarrassing.

There is no entitlement for anything in life.
 
Sometimes it is not about having the best fascilities or the best supporters, infrastucture. If this is a global sport, then kids in Qatar and Russia, just like in South Africa, need to feel the presence of a global football event.

Sure I would have liked 2022 to be in USA for a selfish reason, but middle east is not 2nd class. They also deserve to be a part of the world cup history.
 
English have such a poor way of loosing. It's never them, it is always somebody else. The system is flawed, the process is rigged, etc...This is embarrassing.

There is no entitlement for anything in life.

I don't think it has anything to do with England, just the farcical decision to give 2022 to Qatar.
 
Why not, we could call it footballs coming home to one of the cradles of civillisation.

Logistics can't be any more difficult than Russia and it would be a far more memorable experience for the foriegn fan then travelling around the mighty Qatar. 'Oh look there's a stadium', walk 5 metres forward 'And oh look theres another one'.

That clearly will never happen. You can't have a world cup spread over 6 nations....over an area which is the equivalent to the distance between Spain and the most eastern part of Kazakhstan/Central Asia. It's also patronising to suggest that North African and Middle Eastern nations can't host a world cup by themselves.
 
Sometimes it is not about having the best fascilities or the best supporters, infrastucture. If this is a global sport, then kids in Qatar and Russia, just like in South Africa, need to feel the presence of a global football event.

Sure I would have liked 2022 to be in USA for a selfish reason, but middle east is not 2nd class. They also deserve to be a part of the world cup history.

I'm sorry, but the Middle East is not even 2nd class in terms of footballing standards.

This is the FOOTBALL World Cup, I just think the footballing standards should be one of the factors.
 
That clearly will never happen. You can't have a world cup spread over 6 nations....over an area which is the equivalent to the distance between Spain and the most eastern part of Kazakhstan/Central Asia. It's also patronising to suggest that North African and Middle Eastern nations can't put on a world cup by themselves.

6 nations?

It can be based in just 2/3 if it comes to it... if not morrocco.. then why not a joint collaboration between Egypt/Turkey, that would be sensational.
 
I’ve been following the comments since the FIFA announced the host countries for 2018 and 2022. To be honest, I am not surprised for Russia as the 2018 World Cup host. Firstly, if you look at other candidates, Russia’s bid was much stronger. Spain-Portugal, Belgium-Holland and England hosted either WC or EC before, but Russia did never do such a big organization. Therefore I find FIFA’s decision is right.

Secondly, there is a massive potential for construction here. I’ve been living in Russia for about 2 years and there are many projects to be completed. (New metro stations, hotels, even new airport and ongoing stadium projects) Who will make all those? Turkish, Finnish and German construction companies are leading in this sector, but I am sure that Chinese or other European companies will also invest in Russia after taking this WC organization. There will be tremendous business for everybody.

Thirdly, Russia is no longer closed society country and famous with only vodka and its women. There is a Russian language course near my work, and I see everyday many students from all around the world. They come to learn Russian language. Similarly, there is a sharp increase for international students in Russian universities. The tourism is growing as well. Yes, there are some downsides here. I am not comfortable with them either.

But I hope that Russia will make everything fine till 2018 (or even 2014 Winter Olympics) and we will watch a nice tournament. :)
 
I wish Turkey had made a bid. That would be a brilliant place to have the cup. Well attended league, existing stadia, good central location, friendly folks. They'd be my first choice.

Qatar feels a bit light for loads of obvious reasons.

Russia will be fun, but it'll be dodgy. Can't wait.
 
English have such a poor way of loosing. It's never them, it is always somebody else. The system is flawed, the process is rigged, etc...This is embarrassing.

Except when the process is in fact flawed you mean? The bidding process in large part there for appearances and to provide a nice jolly for Fifa execs.

It is certainly embarrassing that the most technically able hosts are not simply edged out other concerns but shown utter contempt.
 
English have such a poor way of loosing. It's never them, it is always somebody else. The system is flawed, the process is rigged, etc...This is embarrassing.

There is no entitlement for anything in life.

I agree as a general observation but in regards to this "loss", the bitter taste in the mouth is justified IMO. I'm not trying to play clever-clogs here, but I knew that Russia and Qatar would win the rights, I might of predicted so in this thread months before the vote actually, but it doesn't take a political mastermind or Inspector Morse to work out that other forces were at work here.

Agendas and hefty sums landing in Swiss bank accounts are the main criteria that's spawned this sick, corrupt result. The Russian and Qatari bids maybe didn't promise the financial benefits England's did in terms of post-WC profits but the key here is that the two bids that won were the most rewarding financially in terms of lining members of the commitee's pockets.

The man who symbolises this horrible process to get a WC is Jack Warner, that man has been getting wined and dined by every bidding nation for a couple of years now, and all along he had no intention of voting for England("I'll see to it that a WC never goes to England" were his words)and was trousering rouble after rouble.
 
This has probably already been commented upon but it is worthy of a second airing if so.

It is claimed that only two FIFA Executive Committee members actually took the time to read the bids and they but a glance i shouldn't wonder. How do they justify that? From start to finish it was pointless, the expense only to the profit of consultancy and marketing firms. Is there any grounds for redress do you think?
 
This has probably already been commented upon but it is worthy of a second airing if so.

It is claimed that only two FIFA Executive Committee members actually took the time to read the bids and they but a glance i shouldn't wonder. How do they justify that? From start to finish it was pointless, the expense only to the profit of consultancy and marketing firms. Is there any grounds for redress do you think?
Grounds for disbanding FIFA hopefully.
 
The English wrote the rules down, spread it around a bit, as they did the English language, opium and free trade. The rules then changed over time to what we've got today.

Believe what you like, it's a myth that the English created the game, and it's an even more spurious myth that England is the home of football.

Hang on - that makes no sense.

Who created the game then?
 
And Russia was 86% or something. Much of a muchness.

England's presentation was camp as well - I mean, Beckham talking about his granddad? England United - The World Invited? How incredibly smug is that?

I would have loved an England World Cup. But as long as we continue talking about this Football Coming Home shite we're going to sound like cnuts so incredibly up our own arses we should be shot. If football has a home, it is with the most successful, entertaining practitioners, Brazil, or with the people who invented the game (probably the ancient Chinese, the English certainly didn't, they just wrote down the rules) or with its fans, who are all over the world. Football is in fact going home every World Cup - to its fans in Africa this year, to fans in South America in 2014 and to fans in Russia in 2018.

Everyone's also missing the point with the risk evaluations. Just because something is low risk doesn't mean you take it. You need to take risks to get good outcomes - clearly a successful World Cup in Russia is a desirable outcome, and worth taking risks for.

I think you misunderstand the difference between a sport and an activity.
 
English have such a poor way of loosing. It's never them, it is always somebody else. The system is flawed, the process is rigged, etc...This is embarrassing.

There is no entitlement for anything in life.

Do think the England bid only deserved to gain 2 votes, one of which was their own?

Do you hand on heart believe that the whole bidding process has remained above board?

There is entitlement to expect your own nation's bid to be judged entirely on merit. There should also be transparency in the voting, although I suppose that's not something we're entitled to.
 
This has probably already been commented upon but it is worthy of a second airing if so.

It is claimed that only two FIFA Executive Committee members actually took the time to read the bids and they but a glance i shouldn't wonder. How do they justify that? From start to finish it was pointless, the expense only to the profit of consultancy and marketing firms. Is there any grounds for redress do you think?

I think this is kind of the point.

The debate's been sidetracked by arguments about the merits or criteria of who should host a world cup, but you can make for and against arguments for pretty much any country capable of hosting it...Russia and Qatar are both capable of hosting great tournaments.

The issue should be with Fifa and how they come to these decisions, the fact they can't do anything without being bent about it, and the fact they waste a lot of other people's time and resources in doing so. These are the people who are ultimately in charge of football. I wouln't begrudge Russia a world cup ahead of England, the issue is that Fifa turned the "decision" process into a plastic farce...which doesn't hold out much hope for them faring any better with the actual event, regardless of who hosts it.
 
True. But FIFA owe it to the whole footballing community and football following community to provide the most transparent and fair process possible. This clearly isn't. So they've failed in delivering what they're supposed to. It's surely possible to make this about credibility. It shouldn't be that hard if the will is there. Clearly, with FIFA there is no such will.

Problem is, FIFA has grown to be the very embodiment of football. Ruled by greedy fat pricks in suits who are detached from the real world.
 
SERIOUS questions remain about corruption in the contest to host the World Cup despite attempts by football's governing body to draw a line under the cash for votes scandal.

Last week Fifa took the unprecedented decision to suspend and fine six of its members who had been named in a Sunday Times investigation into World Cup bribery. The secretly recorded tapes and video passed to Fifa by this newspaper contained much wider allegations about illicit payments involving members and bidders past and present.

The allegations were unproven and therefore the individuals were not named in the newspaper. The accusations included:
- Claims from three former Fifa officials that supporters of a bid were currently offering large personal payments for votes. One said the payments were between $1m and $1.2m (£730,600 and £876,620).

- Claims of payments and "dirty tricks" by supporters of another bidding country.

- Claims that Morocco had made payments of $250,000 to secure votes at a previous World Cup contest.

- Claims that a Fifa official had been paid $1m for his vote in a previous World Cup contest.

The Sunday Times supplied the names to Fifa in our letter containing the allegations against the six members who have now been suspended.

However, it is not clear whether the Fifa ethics committee even investigated any of the claims. Sepp Blatter , the Fifa president, said on Friday that the committee's inquiries had now been "terminated".

Blatter has been anxious to play down the extent of the crisis within Fifa after the sports body decided on Wednesday to suspend the members. He claimed they were just six people in a "football family" of more than 300m. "It does not mean the whole of football is corrupt," he said.

Yet Fifa has never before been forced to suspend so many senior figures who had been at the heart of its organisation. All six were either current or former members of the 24-man Fifa executive committee, which votes on who should hold the World Cup.

They included two current members, Amos Adamu of Nigeria and Reynald Temarii of Tahiti, who will now be unable to vote in the contest to hold the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, which is due to take place on December 2. Adamu was filmed guaranteeing his vote to two undercover reporters after requesting £500,000 (*580,000) for a personal project. He was found to have breached article 11.1 of the Fifa code of ethics, which says "officials may not accept bribes". He was suspended for three years and fined 10,000 Swiss francs (*7,350).

Temarii was filmed asking for £1.5m for a sports academy from a reporter seeking his vote. He was not found to have violated article 11.1 but was suspended for a year and fined 5,000 Swiss francs for three other breaches of the code. One was article 3.2, which says: "Officials shall show commitment to an ethical attitude while performing their duties... and act with complete credibility and integrity."

The recording of Temarii also raised questions that remain unresolved following the ethics committee inquiry. He said two bid countries had offered his Oceania Football Confederation "huge" amounts of money - which he later said was $10m-$12m. Who were those bid committees, and were their offers investigated? The undercover reporters also spoke to former Fifa executive committee members who offered to work as fixers for a World Cup bid. They all suggested paying huge bribes to Fifa executive committee members.

They were all disciplined on Wednesday.

They are: Slim Aloulou, chairman of the Fifa dispute resolution chamber, who was suspended for two years and fined £6,300; Ahongalu Fusimalohi, general secretary of the Tonga Football Association, suspended for three years and fined £6,300; Amadou Diakite, a member of the Fifa referees committee, suspended for three years and fined £6,300; and Ismail Bhamjee, an honorary member of the Confederation of African Football, suspended for four years and fined £6,300.

On Friday, Blatter announced that a further two former Fifa executives would be punished. Michel Zen-Ruffinen, a former Fifa general secretary, and Michel Bacchini, a former tournament director, had both advised our undercover reporters on which Fifa executive committee members might take money.

The executive committee took its revenge. "The two Michels... have been declared persona non grata à la Fifa, whatever that means," said Blatter . "We have to define what that means."

So all eight officials and fixers named by this newspaper faced some sort of action. But was Fifa grateful for the evidence provided by The Sunday Times? In front of the world's media on Thursday, Claudio Sulser, a former Swiss football player turned lawyer who chairs the ethics committee, made a "personal" comment. He claimed The Sunday Times should also be criticised because it had "changed sentences" and "twisted the truth".

There were no examples given and he offered no substantiation for his accusations. When asked directly what he meant, Sulser started to talk about the video footage on our website rather than the 3,000 words written in two articles in the newspaper.

He said conversations had been taken out of context. "So, if you look at the document [video] of The Sunday Times, it lasted four minutes, more or less, and that's what everybody has in mind but we've looked at video footage of several hours," he said.

There is actually 30 minutes of video on our website and it accompanies a very detailed article. Fifa was able to view the unedited footage because this newspaper provided it to the governing body the day after the two articles were first published. Nothing has been changed. Each quotation in the newspaper was checked many times over to make sure that it is a word-perfect match for the footage.

So Sulser's comments were baffling. On Friday we asked him, through Fifa's press office, to justify the claims. He has so far failed to respond. Fifa also did not respond to our questions about the wider allegations in the tapes.

Blatter has promised reform but many doubt his sincerity in wishing to change a system that has worked so nicely for the Fifa executive committee for so many years.

Alec McGiven, director of England's unsuccessful bid to host the World Cup in 2006, blames Fifa for vote-buying. "Fifa ought to recognise that the system they adopt has a tendency to encourage this type of activity," he said. "It is a cosy club mentality in which people appear to be out for what they can get out of the voting from the bidding teams."

Reforms such as publishing how executive committee members vote would make collusion between bids much easier to spot. The ethics committee also dismissed allegations that Spain/Portugal, rival joint bidders to England for 2018, had secured seven votes by colluding with Qatar, because of lack of evidence.

Much was made last week of the potential negative impact of the scandal on England's bid but it is all speculation. Not one Fifa executive committee member has said they have changed their mind as a result of our revelations.

If the allegations were true that Spain/Portugal and Qatar had secured seven votes, England was already lagging behind in September.

Nor is it convincing that either Adamu or Temarii would have voted for England. Adamu had just returned from a hospitality trip given by England's rivals Russia when he first met our undercover reporters. A member of the Oceania executive board told the reporters that Temarii was thought to be voting for England but, in fact, a deal had been done that meant he would choose Spain. '' PEOPLE APPEAR TO BE OUT FOR WHAT THEY CAN GET FROM THE BIDDERS
 
The bid team should be stoned for not colluding with other nations right from the off...why were Spain and Qatar able to work out a deal and not England?
 
That's not fact. Fact is, FIFA want to spread the game to all parts of the globe. And I have no doubts Qatar will put on a good show, Christ they've got enough money haven't they. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how their stadia'll shape up...and gimpy stuff like water taxis and cameldroids. What I do worry about is that there could be a lack of interest in Qatar. By this I don't mean people'll shun the WC but the majority of Qatar's population's made up of guest workers - and I doubt they'll be able to afford tickets.

Qatar will buy tickets and give them out. They've got the money and they don't want stadiums to be empty. Citizens get first shot, of course, workers next.
 
Wenger is spot on...the only way to eliminate corruption and suspicion is to use mechanical ways of deciding these things. Shove all the bids and presentations into a computer and let it spit out the best candidate. Simple as that. The there will be no arguments.

Leaving it to presidents of Trinidad & Tobago, Thailand, and Indonesian FA's is virtually begging for back-handers and agendas.