it was a statement. no inference of wrongdoing intended
edit: who knows actually if Qatar can get a World Cup Im sure Venezuela could :P
World Cup 2018 & 2022 bids
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
it was a statement. no inference of wrongdoing intended
edit: who knows actually if Qatar can get a World Cup Im sure Venezuela could :P
That is the point I was making. The consideration of a successful tournament should overide what region or continent turn it is.
There was meant to be more, they dropped out very quickly.
You are missing the point I was trying to make. My point is that the FA in their arrogance seem to think they are the be all and end all in the world of football and that they have a divine right to hold the world cup. My point is they have, over the years neglected the development of youth and youth coaching in favor of building themselves up as the untouchables.
They are also out of touch with reality. Can you honestly say you have been happy with their selection of an English manager and the amount of absurd money they pay to get second rate coaches/managers.
I am very passionate about youth coaching, I am very much involved but what I do not like is that the facilities and methods in England have not been supported like they should be in favor or pumped up officials who cannot see the woods for the trees.
I get very angry when I see our FA officials chasing something that was already decided, throwing good money after a lost cause, that a lot of well connected people knew was a lost cause, that had pointed this out to the FA but in their arrogant wisdom decided to make a public show at great expense to try and hoodwink the masses.
Sadly, it's true...
Oh, what I would like to add is that in all of my research into coaching methods and techniques United are absolutely top drawer, not in so much as youth coaching but development of talented players that are recommended to them. They, the coaches, are all working from the same page, so as to speak.
I agree with a lot of what you say bob - certainly nothing there that stands out as disagreeable.
It would have been preferable for the FA to have invested more into grass roots than bidding for the world cup in the first place. It's one of the reasons i dislike fifa's behaviour in the bidding charade. Why allow england to bid if they had no intention of giving the the tournament - allow them to invest that time and money into grass roots instead (maybe literally grass roots considering the state of wembleys pitch).
I think this point is relevant due to the fact our bid was judged to technically be the best. I think it says everything about fifa if theyd rather not deal with accusations of corruption but instead 'punish' the country whose media makes these accusations by sabotaging their vote. If the media had nothing to do with their voting then they cant ever have thought england were viable hosts and, if it did, i think that's a sad indictment of FIFA's priorities. That's why i dislike fifa and dont believe they run the game in the correct spirit.
Your points about the FA are all correct though but they arent reasons to deny a world cup bid i don't think.
The sad aspect of all this is that both the FA and FIFA are completely inept at doing what they should do. That's my grumble which in this thread i feel has been muddied by a debate about the british media - which is ironic as they are generally inept tossers as well (although i refer generally here to the printed press rather than the bbc who, in the grand scheme of things, do far more good in the world than they do bad).
It would have been preferable for the FA to have invested more into grass roots than bidding for the world cup in the first place. It's one of the reasons i dislike fifa's behaviour in the bidding charade. Why allow england to bid if they had no intention of giving the the tournament - allow them to invest that time and money into grass roots instead (maybe literally grass roots considering the state of wembleys pitch).
I think this point is relevant due to the fact our bid was judged to technically be the best. I think it says everything about fifa if theyd rather not deal with accusations of corruption but instead 'punish' the country whose media makes these accusations by sabotaging their vote. If the media had nothing to do with their voting then they cant ever have thought england were viable hosts and, if it did, i think that's a sad indictment of FIFA's priorities. That's why i dislike fifa and dont believe they run the game in the correct spirit.
Your points about the FA are all correct though but they arent reasons to deny a world cup bid i don't think.
The sad aspect of all this is that both the FA and FIFA are completely inept at doing what they should do. That's my grumble which in this thread i feel has been muddied by a debate about the british media - which is ironic as they are generally inept tossers as well (although i refer generally here to the printed press rather than the bbc who, in the grand scheme of things, do far more good in the world than they do bad).
That's good to hear.
But of a debate starting on Sky News at the moment about whether the reaction to the WC is just English sour grapes or if concerns are about FIFA are legit - I would say both to be honest, they are not mutually exclusive.
Nowt wrong with a few sour grapes though, its the English way! Boris is already on the case:
World Cup 2018: Boris kicks FIFA chiefs out of Dorchester for 2012 Olympics | Mail Online
Nowt wrong with a few sour grapes though, its the English way! Boris is already on the case:
World Cup 2018: Boris kicks FIFA chiefs out of Dorchester for 2012 Olympics | Mail Online
Reality check for all those who assume England's bid was the best - it is not all about technicals ...
BBC Sport - Football - PR guru Mike Lee slates England 2018 World Cup bid
England's attempt to win the right to stage the 2018 World Cup has been slated by a public relations expert who was behind Qatar's victorious 2022 bid.
While Qatar was given the 2022 World Cup, England lost out in the 2018 race with only two first-preference votes.
"This England bid campaign was not Premier League, it was relegation and League One," said bid expert Mike Lee.
"I'm not sure it is healthy to blame everyone else, and not reflect on the campaign itself," added the Englishman.
Lee has previously worked on Brazil's winning bid to host the 2016 Olympics as well as the 2012 London Games.
While England's technical bid and its presentation to Fifa last week was widely praised, Lee focused attention on key figures within the bid team and its inability to forge alliances both at home and abroad.
Sunderland-born Lee was particularly damning of the appointment of Football Association chairman Lord Triesman as chairman of the bid.
Triesman resigned from both positions in May in the wake of a newspaper article that claimed he suggested Spain could drop its 2018 bid if rival bidder Russia helped bribe referees at the 2010 World Cup.
Russia ended up winning the right to host the 2018 World Cup following a vote by Fifa's 22 executive members in Zurich on Thursday.
"It was clear to everybody that Lord Triesman was not the right choice," added Lee.
"He was not popular among his fellow colleagues here in English football. He was terribly unpopular in international football and for nearly 60% of the campaign we were hampered.
"As you look back from the choice of the wrong bid leader in the first instance through to alienating the Premier League and a series of PR own goals, it has not been a success.
"A lot was made at the beginning of how it was not going to repeat the mistakes of 2006 but it actually repeated many of those mistakes and even ended up with three fewer votes, and only half as many as Holland and Belgium."
After exonerating bid international president David Dein as well as England 2018 ambassadors David Beckham, Sir Keith Mills and Lord Coe from blame with regards to the bid, Lee then urged the FA to appoint former Arsenal vice-chairman Dein as its chairman.
"This is an opportunity to appoint someone who knows the game at both club and national team level and also has experience of the international football environment.
"In my view David Dein does have all of those credentials and I do think he would make an ideal candidate."
Lee also suggested the FA cultivate contacts within Fifa and Uefa by taking more of an interest in hosting youth and women's tournaments.
"We must develop a much more international outlook to the way we work in terms of Uefa and Fifa," argued Lee.
"It might also be smart to sign up David Beckham as an international ambassador and work with him to explore what role he could play once his playing career is over.
"He has shown in helping both London 2012 and this campaign that he represents his country with real dignity."
BBC Sport - Football - PR guru Mike Lee slates England 2018 World Cup bid
England's attempt to win the right to stage the 2018 World Cup has been slated by a public relations expert who was behind Qatar's victorious 2022 bid.
While Qatar was given the 2022 World Cup, England lost out in the 2018 race with only two first-preference votes.
"This England bid campaign was not Premier League, it was relegation and League One," said bid expert Mike Lee.
"I'm not sure it is healthy to blame everyone else, and not reflect on the campaign itself," added the Englishman.
Lee has previously worked on Brazil's winning bid to host the 2016 Olympics as well as the 2012 London Games.
While England's technical bid and its presentation to Fifa last week was widely praised, Lee focused attention on key figures within the bid team and its inability to forge alliances both at home and abroad.
Sunderland-born Lee was particularly damning of the appointment of Football Association chairman Lord Triesman as chairman of the bid.
Triesman resigned from both positions in May in the wake of a newspaper article that claimed he suggested Spain could drop its 2018 bid if rival bidder Russia helped bribe referees at the 2010 World Cup.
Russia ended up winning the right to host the 2018 World Cup following a vote by Fifa's 22 executive members in Zurich on Thursday.
"It was clear to everybody that Lord Triesman was not the right choice," added Lee.
"He was not popular among his fellow colleagues here in English football. He was terribly unpopular in international football and for nearly 60% of the campaign we were hampered.
"As you look back from the choice of the wrong bid leader in the first instance through to alienating the Premier League and a series of PR own goals, it has not been a success.
"A lot was made at the beginning of how it was not going to repeat the mistakes of 2006 but it actually repeated many of those mistakes and even ended up with three fewer votes, and only half as many as Holland and Belgium."
After exonerating bid international president David Dein as well as England 2018 ambassadors David Beckham, Sir Keith Mills and Lord Coe from blame with regards to the bid, Lee then urged the FA to appoint former Arsenal vice-chairman Dein as its chairman.
"This is an opportunity to appoint someone who knows the game at both club and national team level and also has experience of the international football environment.
"In my view David Dein does have all of those credentials and I do think he would make an ideal candidate."
Lee also suggested the FA cultivate contacts within Fifa and Uefa by taking more of an interest in hosting youth and women's tournaments.
"We must develop a much more international outlook to the way we work in terms of Uefa and Fifa," argued Lee.
"It might also be smart to sign up David Beckham as an international ambassador and work with him to explore what role he could play once his playing career is over.
"He has shown in helping both London 2012 and this campaign that he represents his country with real dignity."
Reality check for the rest...it shouldn't be about popularity, favours and money either.....
A bit of a reality check for those claiming in was the Sun wot dunnit...
ENGLAND’S 2018 World Cup bid was doomed WEEKS ago because of Sepp Blatter’s personal support for Russia, it emerged last night.
As the fallout continued from England’s two-vote humiliation, bid chief Andy Anson admitted they had been chasing a lost cause.
“Clearly people were impressed by the Russian campaign from very early days and thought that’s where the World Cup should go,” Anson said. “We always got that feeling at the top levels of FIFA.”
England’s presentation in Zurich, with contributions from Prime Minister David Cameron, FA President Prince William and David Beckham, was the only one described as “remarkable” by Blatter – but our bid never had a chance.
Anson said: “Blatter’s comments were always much more supportive about Russia than any other country. We understood that the FIFA president was supportive of Russia throughout.”
FIFA members insist that the corruption allegations that led to the suspensions of two of their own scuppered England’s £15m campaign.
But Anson, who says at least four FIFA voters betrayed England by breaking their promise, totally rejects this argument. “It’s a convenient excuse,” he said.
ENGLAND’S 2018 World Cup bid was doomed WEEKS ago because of Sepp Blatter’s personal support for Russia, it emerged last night.
As the fallout continued from England’s two-vote humiliation, bid chief Andy Anson admitted they had been chasing a lost cause.
“Clearly people were impressed by the Russian campaign from very early days and thought that’s where the World Cup should go,” Anson said. “We always got that feeling at the top levels of FIFA.”
England’s presentation in Zurich, with contributions from Prime Minister David Cameron, FA President Prince William and David Beckham, was the only one described as “remarkable” by Blatter – but our bid never had a chance.
Anson said: “Blatter’s comments were always much more supportive about Russia than any other country. We understood that the FIFA president was supportive of Russia throughout.”
FIFA members insist that the corruption allegations that led to the suspensions of two of their own scuppered England’s £15m campaign.
But Anson, who says at least four FIFA voters betrayed England by breaking their promise, totally rejects this argument. “It’s a convenient excuse,” he said.
Well I dont think we would have won anyway but at least we would have had a chance. I reckon Russia were set to win because their bid was strong and fulfilled all the legacy stuff, but I think England would have gone head2head with them if the press has waited.
There were issues within our bid team for a long time but this is hardly mentioned - Triesmann didnt get on with Thompson and then resigned anyway (which lets not forget was again due to media sticking their nose in where it was not wanted or needed), hardly the best ingredients for a winning bid.
Holy crap balls you couldn't make this stuff up...
Travels with Chuck Blazer and his Friends...: My Blog gets a name change...
Travels with Chuck Blazer and his Friends...: My Blog gets a name change...
How many votes per continent?
If this is what we have to look forward to then I can't wait
Interesting interview with one of the FIFA ExCo (bloke from Cyprus)
BBC Sport - Football - Fifa ExCo member won't confirm England promise
Confirms that he had more of less made up his mind about his vote before arriving in Zurich, not really a suprise but confirmation that the huge last minute push from us with Cameron/Windsor/Beckham was all a waste of time and the bid was lost some time ago.
BBC Sport - Football - Fifa ExCo member won't confirm England promise
Confirms that he had more of less made up his mind about his vote before arriving in Zurich, not really a suprise but confirmation that the huge last minute push from us with Cameron/Windsor/Beckham was all a waste of time and the bid was lost some time ago.
It has nothing to do with how good your bid is (evidenced by only 2 officals even bothering to look at the technical report), merely how much you are willing to line the pockets of the voters. It's no surprise that the two countries whose "owners" can easily access huge amounts of money which is impossible to trace won the bid. If that £15m spent on a futile campaign was just direct debited into 15 officials' accounts we might have had a chance.
/edit: People saying England are being arrogant are morons, if I entered a competition and was more superior in every regard to my nearest competitor(s) then I woud be confident of doing well. Not getting the World Cup isn't what people are pissed about, it is the manner in which we didn't get it (getting 1 vote). Don't even get me started on fecking Qatar.
/edit: People saying England are being arrogant are morons, if I entered a competition and was more superior in every regard to my nearest competitor(s) then I woud be confident of doing well. Not getting the World Cup isn't what people are pissed about, it is the manner in which we didn't get it (getting 1 vote). Don't even get me started on fecking Qatar.
Mike Lee(whoever he is)is a gobshite. That article was a load of nonsense because how popular you are and whether you host youth tournements or not is irrelevant. It's supposed to be about the best bid and what it has to offer. England's was declared the best all-round package by FIFA themselves, that's why it's a shambles.
His point about hosting youth tournements and women's tournements is moot anyway, because not 3 years ago, we hosted the women's Euro's. A fat lot of good that's done us in the 2018 bid.
No, it's got feck all to do with football, infrastructure, presentation, and all the other phoney processes of a bid, nor is it to do with relationship's between FA and FIFA, xenaphobia, or a revenge mission against our press. At the end of the day, it all boils down to one thing...cold, hard cash and how much of it you're willing to put into an executive's account.
If we were as bent as FIFA themselves, we'd have got WC 2018. I'm glad we weren't because it's a sad organisation packed with greedy, back-stabbing, nobodies who close ranks as soon as any hint of corruption is exposed. They can keep their WC and stick it up their bollocks.
His point about hosting youth tournements and women's tournements is moot anyway, because not 3 years ago, we hosted the women's Euro's. A fat lot of good that's done us in the 2018 bid.
No, it's got feck all to do with football, infrastructure, presentation, and all the other phoney processes of a bid, nor is it to do with relationship's between FA and FIFA, xenaphobia, or a revenge mission against our press. At the end of the day, it all boils down to one thing...cold, hard cash and how much of it you're willing to put into an executive's account.
If we were as bent as FIFA themselves, we'd have got WC 2018. I'm glad we weren't because it's a sad organisation packed with greedy, back-stabbing, nobodies who close ranks as soon as any hint of corruption is exposed. They can keep their WC and stick it up their bollocks.
Am I the only one who now feels that, as cathartic as pointing out yet again that FIFA are crooked, it is getting to the Unhelpful Stage?
Andy Anson sounds like an honest guy, but going onto the national broadcaster and badmouthing an organisation that the FA is going to have to work with in the future seems a bit short sighted and self-destructive.
He's come a long way from claiming that the Beeb were being "unpatriotic" to now lumping abuse onto FIFA, ironically enough using the BBC as his platform.
Of course he's out of a job now so I don't reckon he cares much.
Andy Anson sounds like an honest guy, but going onto the national broadcaster and badmouthing an organisation that the FA is going to have to work with in the future seems a bit short sighted and self-destructive.
He's come a long way from claiming that the Beeb were being "unpatriotic" to now lumping abuse onto FIFA, ironically enough using the BBC as his platform.
Of course he's out of a job now so I don't reckon he cares much.
Agree with all of that except the last paragraph, I'd have preferred to give the £15m straight to the delgates instead of paying for Beckham and co to stay in 5* hotels, take first class flights around the world and drink champagne with other fatcats.
Lets also not pretend that FIFA have only just become bent, I bet if you scrutinised our accounts in the 1966 bid it would make for some unsavoury reading. The only difference is now we don't have the financial clout or the ability to make such payments.
I laughed my head off when I heard that England's bid only received one - yes ONE single vote from other than our own rep - especially as , allegedly 5 to 6 other FIFA ExCo delgates had promised the bid team their votes.......sums the whole process up...
However, I always thought Russia would get the next WC and I think they are well overdue to host a major tournament - so I have no problem with them getting it....although people have their reservations about Russia hosting the tournament, I bet everything is pretty much on the money when they host it.
Although our bid was technically excellent, the parameters for selecting the venues has changed, from traditional venues to new frontiers...... it is said FIFA should have made this clearer - however, they are not daft and would welcome the extra "entertainment" brought in by no-hoping nations' bid teams like ours glad handing them......
as for Qatar.......................looks a bridge too far........
However, I always thought Russia would get the next WC and I think they are well overdue to host a major tournament - so I have no problem with them getting it....although people have their reservations about Russia hosting the tournament, I bet everything is pretty much on the money when they host it.
Although our bid was technically excellent, the parameters for selecting the venues has changed, from traditional venues to new frontiers...... it is said FIFA should have made this clearer - however, they are not daft and would welcome the extra "entertainment" brought in by no-hoping nations' bid teams like ours glad handing them......
as for Qatar.......................looks a bridge too far........
What's the betting that 7 and 11 years from now, on a slow news day, it'll emerge that all the stadia are behind schedule and England could be called in to host the tournament as an alternative venue.
If that was ever a realistic scenario Id love us to say a big feck you.....
No - I totally agree.
We all know what FIFA are about so we have 2 choices, play their game or stick 2 fingers up at them and forget any chances of hosting the WC.
And you are right about Anson aswell - what a prat, he was the first to slag off the BBC for their idiocy and now he starts cuddling up to them and saying it is nothing to do with the media - make your mind up mate !
Some vital questions asked here, although I doubt we will get any answers- the bit in bold is especially important.
BBC - David Bond: FA faces questions over 2018 World Cup bid
Roger Burden is seen by many as a principled man. The acting FA chairman was also seen as the favoured candidate to land the job full time early in the new year.
His decision to withdraw his application because he feels he cannot trust Fifa in the wake of England's failed bid for the 2018 World Cup is entirely understandable in the circumstances.
His sour views about the Fifa members who betrayed the England bid will also be shared by many other football leaders and fans in the country.
But if he or the FA think that it will make even the slightest difference to the way Fifa works then they are likely to be disappointed.
And as the FA attempts to put pressure on Fifa, some may reflect that it is exactly this type of attitude that has made English football an outsider in the world governing body's corridors of power.
So, as the FA tries to keep the focus on Fifa's shortcomings, questions are beginning to be asked about its own role in Thursday's humiliation.
Of course there is little anyone can do if someone says they are going to vote for you and then place a cross against another country's name.
But were the bid team naïve to believe that just because members told them they were going to vote for them that they would actually go through with it?
Exactly the same thing happened in the failed 2006 bid. Why weren't the mistakes of that campaign learned?
Given how strong the anti-English feeling in Fifa was, how did England's bid team come to believe they had a chance in the last two days before the decision - especially after the Panorama programme exposing alleged corruption by three members of the Fifa executive committee?
Did they risk humiliating Prime Minister David Cameron and Prince William by thinking they could really win?
Did they misread president Sepp Blatter's power within Fifa and his clear desire to give the World Cup to Russia?
And did they fail to understand Russian Prime Minsiter Vladimir Putin's decision not to come to Zurich before the vote?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course, and while no one can fault how hard they worked in the last few weeks, it does seem the bid team have some questions to answer.
BBC - David Bond: FA faces questions over 2018 World Cup bid
Roger Burden is seen by many as a principled man. The acting FA chairman was also seen as the favoured candidate to land the job full time early in the new year.
His decision to withdraw his application because he feels he cannot trust Fifa in the wake of England's failed bid for the 2018 World Cup is entirely understandable in the circumstances.
His sour views about the Fifa members who betrayed the England bid will also be shared by many other football leaders and fans in the country.
But if he or the FA think that it will make even the slightest difference to the way Fifa works then they are likely to be disappointed.
And as the FA attempts to put pressure on Fifa, some may reflect that it is exactly this type of attitude that has made English football an outsider in the world governing body's corridors of power.
So, as the FA tries to keep the focus on Fifa's shortcomings, questions are beginning to be asked about its own role in Thursday's humiliation.
Of course there is little anyone can do if someone says they are going to vote for you and then place a cross against another country's name.
But were the bid team naïve to believe that just because members told them they were going to vote for them that they would actually go through with it?
Exactly the same thing happened in the failed 2006 bid. Why weren't the mistakes of that campaign learned?
Given how strong the anti-English feeling in Fifa was, how did England's bid team come to believe they had a chance in the last two days before the decision - especially after the Panorama programme exposing alleged corruption by three members of the Fifa executive committee?
Did they risk humiliating Prime Minister David Cameron and Prince William by thinking they could really win?
Did they misread president Sepp Blatter's power within Fifa and his clear desire to give the World Cup to Russia?
And did they fail to understand Russian Prime Minsiter Vladimir Putin's decision not to come to Zurich before the vote?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course, and while no one can fault how hard they worked in the last few weeks, it does seem the bid team have some questions to answer.
But considering we're not gonna host it for another 20 years anyway, we might as well cry foul from the bell towers for a little while longer in the hope we can uncover some muck on them...I'd rather that than the frankly dirty option of "playing along" for 20 sodding years. feck that.
True - we dont really need much from FIFA in the next few years so there is not much to lose. If there is any real evidence of corruption at FIFA then now is the time to get it all out there.
Why is it especially important.....does anyone out there actually think that will make any difference to the way FIFA work. Course not, we all know FIFA take no notice of anyone, that they are a law unto themselves and respect no-one. It's been going on so long it's old news, just previously it's been shovelled under the carpet. Mainly because although people weren't happy about what was going on it was the easiest way to deal with it.
The difference is this time that it's been brought to the world's attention in a big way. That's what will make the difference here. The people who have always wanted to do something about the corruptness within FIFA will now have their opportunity.
Yep, they had a winning technical bid but failed to win the sales campaign. Possibly it was unwinnable without sweeteners, possibly unwinnable in the face of a political desire to broaden the world cup geography.
Because it spells out that the FA need to look at themselves rather than FIFA if they want anything to change.
There has been challenges to those in power at FIFA in the past, nothing comes of it because of the way it is all set up. You are kidding yourself if you think it will be any different this time.
... or possibly unwinnable in the face of unnecessary media bollocks.
Most likely a combination of all 3 to be honest.
Changing the FA though won't change FIFA will it.
When corruption is rife a lot of people get screwed over...as we all know that sort of thing can make deep cuts and leave lasting scars. There's bound to be a lot of folk that have been screwed by FIFA over the years and some of those have most likely been sat waiting for an opportunity to return the favour. They'll relish the opportunity.
Well that is my point - FIFA isnt changing anytime soon. You are going to be very disappointed if you think there is going to be some kind of mutiny.
There might be a few more weeks of sour grapes then it will be back to business as usual.
You're still believing that sour grapes stuff I see.
Australia not happy with FIFA either.
I think Australia actually have far more right to be pissed off than we do - however I didnt really see much of the details of their bid so I have no idea if it was any good or not.
From what I understand they have very few friends within FIFA as plenty of people were annoyed by their move to Asia.
From what I understand they have very few friends within FIFA as plenty of people were annoyed by their move to Asia.