Xavi Sells Out to Qatar aka Chemical Xavi

[Nanook]

What's your source for that? It is certainly presented as being only World Cup workers, and I've not seen that disputed anywhere else.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33019838

Just for some context when you try and dismiss the numbers, the entire population of qatar, including the immigrants, is less than the population of Greater Manchester. Do you think you would brush aside such deaths if around 20 people per week were dying on building work at Old Trafford, every week, or do you think it would make national headlines and have everyone wondering what the feck was going on?

From the BBC article.

"Another factor that needs to be taken into account is that, according to one estimate, a third of migrant workers in Qatar don't even work in construction. The ITUC, though, is counting the deaths of workers in any line of work and from any cause, including road accidents and heart attacks."

Holy shit, is this true?

No.

 

[Stack]

Lots of migrants have died in Qatar but it's expected. The country has an estimated 1.4 million migrant workers living there, that graph includes all workers not just ones working on World Cup stadiums. Around 250 Indian workers die every year in Qatar but there's 500,000 of them in total. They're actually less likely to die in Qatar than they would be back home in India.

This doesnt make it right or does it in any way lessen whats happening.

250 workers dying at work in any country anywhere is disgraceful. I live in a middle class. safe, quiet prosperous country of 4 million. We had 47 workers die in work related incidents last year and that is far far too many. 250 of a single nationality dying on the job in Qatar is an utter disgrace especially considering the countries wealth.

 

[Nanook]

This doesnt make it right or does it in any way lessen whats happening.

250 workers dying at work in any country anywhere is disgraceful. I live in a middle class. safe, quiet prosperous country of 4 million. We had 47 workers die in work related incidents last year and that is far far too many. 250 of a single nationality dying on the job in Qatar is an utter disgrace especially considering the countries wealth.

It isn't even at work, originally I thought it was. It includes heart attacks, car accidents and other causes of death.

 

[Stack]

It isn't even at work, originally I thought it was. It includes heart attacks, car accidents and other causes of death.

So how many are dying at work of work related incidents?

 

[Trizy]

How much is he on?

 

[stevoc]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33019838


From the BBC article.

"Another factor that needs to be taken into account is that, according to one estimate, a third of migrant workers in Qatar don't even work in construction. The ITUC, though, is counting the deaths of workers in any line of work and from any cause, including road accidents and heart attacks."

Thats neither here nor there though is it. Even if they are counting the deaths of workers in any line of work so what? The vast majority of the deaths will still be in construction so i doubt it would affect the reported numbers much.

And thats before you even factor in that while the other third of migrant workers may not work directly in construction many (perhaps even the majority) of them will be logistically involved with construction projects in other ways. Drivers transporting construction workers and materials, catering for all the other migrant workers, cleaners etc. etc.

The numbers can be fudged around lots of ways but the fact remains thousands of people are dying so a country that has no business doing so can host a fecking football tournament.

 

[Nanook]

So how many are dying at work of work related incidents?

Thats neither here nor there though is it. Even if they are counting the deaths of workers in any line of work so what? The vast majority of the deaths will still be in construction so i doubt it would affect the reported numbers much.

Nobody knows but the Qatari government said there have been 0 fatal accidents on World Cup projects.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Even if the OP is over the top, he has a point. This reflects terribly on Xavi in my opinion. To the point where it's actually hard to like him anymore.

Very weird really as he is already a multi millionaire with all the trophies he could ever need and this tarnishes him completely. I just didn't expect this from him - he could easily have just retired on a massive high or gone to the USA or some other league to wind down. Terrible.

 

[Eriku]

Deaths aren't the only part of the picture, though. The abhorrent conditions they are living in for the duration of the project have also been criticised.

 

[Eboue]

I don't have any issue with him playing there. As Fleet Foxes #1 fan said, football should be promoted around the world. I've got a big problem when he acts as an apologist for the regime though.

 

[Americano]

Nobody knows but the Qatari government said there have been 0 fatal accidents on World Cup projects.

And I believe them! I love it here! Go FIFA, I like you!

 

[Arruda]

Thats neither here nor there though is it. Even if they are counting the deaths of workers in any line of work so what? The vast majority of the deaths will still be in construction so i doubt it would affect the reported numbers much.

Well, if you read the article he posted, that chart sounds like a complete crock of shit. What if the death rate in construction really isn't that much different than the death rate in a random population of the same size and age in other countries of the world?

The point officials are making is that there are about half a million Indian workers in Qatar, and about 250 deaths per year - and this, in their view, is not a cause for concern. In fact, Indian government data suggests that back home in India you would expect a far higher proportion to die each year - not 250, but 1,000 in any group of 500,000 25-30-year-old men. Even in the UK, an average of 300 for every half a million men in this age group die each year.

There may be a lot of things wrong with labour in Qatar, no doubt about that, but that chart does sound like a ridiculous take on it.

1200 migrant workers [From Nepal and India] died in Qatar during 3 years... We're led to believe it's because of the World Cup projects when in fact it includes any cause of death, even natural ones. It also includes a majority of time before the World Cup was even given to Qatar.

With the same criteria, a chart for the deaths caused by the London Olympics wouldn't look much different.

 

[stevoc]

Nobody knows but the Qatari government said there have been 0 fatal accidents on World Cup projects.

Well that's that sorted then nothing to worry about, they wouldn't lie about something like this.

 

[Nanook]

Well that's that sorted then nothing to worry about, they wouldn't lie about something like this.

I wouldn't put it past them sweeping a few accidents that caused a death or two under the rug, but wide spread accidents causing tens of deaths every month? No way.

 

[Arruda]

Well that's that sorted then nothing to worry about, they wouldn't lie about something like this.

Knowing the "Qatar World Cup deaths" are an hoax seems useful for a sensible discussion, no? Why are you dismissing his contribution? It's not like he's condoning everything else that goes/went on there.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

For a million Id give carlos tevez a blow job in front of my mum and dad

 

[stevoc]

Well, if you read the article he posted, that chart sounds like a complete crock of shit.



There may be a lot of things wrong with labour in Qatar, no doubt about that, but that chart does sound like a ridiculous take on it.

Oh i read it mate, and it's that piece that sounds like a crock of shit. Looks like classic fudging of stats to me.

While the 300 men in a half million who die in the UK bit may be true (i'm not so certain) but even if it is it won't be 300 men from half a million construction workers dying every year in the UK from dangerous working conditions and unsanitary living conditions like it is in Qatar.

Knowing the "Qatar World Cup deaths" are an hoax seems useful for a sensible discussion, no? Why are you dismissing his contribution? It's not like he's condoning everything else that goes/went on there.

I wouldn't believe anything the Qatar government said on this matter, it's not like they are going to admit it are they?

 

[adexkola]

We're talking specifically about football, Qatar, Xavi, and the World Cup - not some relativist thought experiment.

Ah, the old "wrong thread" approach

Anyways, I don't have a problem with what Xavi did. The dude is doing his job. The cnuts in this scenario are the Qatar government, FIFA, and the numerous companies worldwide who sponsor such activity.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar? Raul's? Batistuta? Guardiola? Zidane?

 

[stevoc]

I wouldn't put it past them sweeping a few accidents that caused a death or two under the rug, but wide spread accidents causing tens of deaths every month? No way.

If you believe that mate fair enough i don't for a second though.

 

[adexkola]

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar? Raul's? Batistuta? Guardiola? Zidane?

Hush, this thread is about Xavi.

 

[Nanook]

If you believe that mate fair enough i don't for a second though.

But they took the numbers from the Nepal and Indian embassy, how do you explain that?

 

[Arruda]

Oh i read it mate, and it's that piece that sounds like a crock of shit. Looks like classic fudging of stats to me.

While the 300 men in a half million who die in the UK bit may be true (i'm not so certain) but even if it is it won't be 300 men from half a million construction workers dying every year in the UK from dangerous working conditions and unsanitary living conditions like it is in Qatar.



I wouldn't believe anything the Qatar government said on this matter, it's not like they are going to admit it are they?

Fudging of stats? That's insane, it's the ones who made the original chart that fudged with stats, by comparing the incomparable and assuming the ludicrous. Working conditions may be insanely bad in Qatar, but the point stands that they're not dying by the hundreds. They may live poorly, and suffer more than what's acceptable by our standards, but they're certainly not dying dramatically from that. And this data isn't provided by the Qatar government, but by the home countries of those migrants.

A death rate of about 1/1000 or slightly less in that age group seems absolutely normal by western standards. Why would the construction workers have a death rate so dramatically different from the general population of their age? What do you even mean by the bolded part? If the deaths are caused by dangerous working conditions and unsanitary living conditions then why do they only add up to 300 in half a million? Did they magically stop dying by all the other things that kill people in places like Europe and the US?

In the United states the death rate in the 25-44 age group in 1995 was 192/100000. You can work out how many that would amount to in a population of half a million. And then explain me why it should be a lot less in the construction workers subpopulation.

 

[Raoul]

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar? Raul's? Batistuta? Guardiola? Zidane?

Are any of them involved with being used as a propaganda tool to obfuscate Qatari slave labor related to their WC construction ?

 

[MUFCpiffgawd]

Talk about an overreacting thread title

it is understandable given how xavi himself has spoken negatively in the past about other players doing the same thing

 

[Eboue]

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar? Raul's? Batistuta? Guardiola? Zidane?

What did they say?

 

[stevoc]

But they took the numbers from the Nepal and Indian embassy, how do you explain that?

Yeah but who gives the embassies these numbers and informs them when one of their citizens have died, the Qatari government. Who decides what the official cause of the death was in each case, again the Qatari Government.

 

[Americano]

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar? Raul's? Batistuta? Guardiola? Zidane?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

But this is taking it even further, to live and work there as a promotional agent of the most universally despised and unwanted world cup bid in history. People say he may even become the coach of the Qatar national team for 2022.

As a Barca fan how do you feel about what he is doing?

 

[Arruda]

Yeah but who gives the embassies these numbers and informs them when one of their citizens have died, the Qatari government. Who decides what the official cause of the death was in each case, again the Qatari Government.

It seems it was us who decided the cause of death is constructing World Cup infrastructure, based on absolutely nothing. That is, assuming the only source is that bullshit chart that has been around for years... Which is the only which is brought up frequently.

 

[Americano]

It seems it was us who decided the cause of death is constructing World Cup infrastructure, based on absolutely nothing.

Why are they arresting and detaining reporters who are there to investigate the working conditions?

 

[Stack]

Fudging of stats? That's insane, it's the ones who made the original chart that fudged with stats, by comparing the incomparable and assuming the ludicrous. Working conditions may be insanely bad in Qatar, but the point stands that they're not dying by the hundreds. They may live poorly, and suffer more than what's acceptable by our standards, but they're certainly not dying dramatically from that. And this data isn't provided by the Qatar government, but by the home countries of those migrants.

A death rate of about 1/1000 or slightly less in that age group seems absolutely normal by western standards. Why would the construction workers have a death rate so dramatically different from the general population of their age? What do you even mean by the bolded part? If the deaths are caused by dangerous working conditions and unsanitary living conditions then why do they only add up to 300 in half a million? Did they magically stop dying by all the other things that kill people in places like Europe and the US?

In the United states the death rate in the 25-44 age group in 1995 was 192/100000. You can work out how many that would amount to in a population of half a million. And then explain me why it should be a lot less in the construction workers subpopulation.

I may be reading this wrongly but it appears you are comparing 2 different statistics. One appears to me to be deaths caused by dangerous work conditions and unsanitary living conditions from half a million and the second stat appears to be general deaths related to half a million.

In the US in 2013 3.3 workers per 100,000 died on the job.

 

[Eboue]

As a Barca fan how do you feel about what he is doing?

He's equivocatin' like a motherfeck

 

[Arruda]

I may be reading this wrongly but it appears you are comparing 2 different statistics. One appears to me to be deaths caused by dangerous work conditions and unsanitary living conditions from half a million and the second stat appears to be general deaths related to half a million.

Not really. I'm questioning why do we assume that the first statistic (deaths in migrant workers in Qatar) is caused by dangerous work conditions and unsanitary living conditions when this information isn't backed by any reliable data at all. All we know is that those people die.

The second statistic is merely to back up my point - people in all corners of the world, in that age group, die in similar numbers, from varied causes (suicide, natural death, homicide, accidents). If the 300 or so Indians that die in Qatar each year die from dangerous work conditions, then where are all the deaths from other causes? Because that's what the numbers we have from deaths in Qatar are, blunt mortality statistics. Amazing how so poor data can go so viral and basically assumed as fact by anyone who has ever read a piece about the issue.

Point is: Qatar may be a crock of shit, but let's keep the discussion sane. That chart that goes around compares actual deaths in infrastructure construction (from other countries) with all cause mortality in migrant populations (in Qatar). Which means, it's an incredibly disingenuous source to bash Qatar.

We had a lot of Eastern Europeans here in Portugal working for Euro 2004. A few hunderd thousand, they made up 4% of the population at some point. Quite a lot of them died, many in the hospital I work at. Almost none (if any at all) from working conditions or accidents. I'd find it pretty stupid if in Ukraine people were writing articles about how Ukrainians were dying in Portugal constructing stadiums. Particularly if those deaths were counted even before we'd been given Euro 2004.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

But this is taking it even further, to live and work there as a promotional agent of the most universally despised and unwanted world cup bid in history. People say he may even become the coach of the Qatar national team for 2022.

As a Barca fan how do you feel about what he is doing?

I don't care that much. I obviously didn't want him to even leave us, never mind go to Qatar and retire there. However, just like many other players before him, he is there to play football and is free to support the development of football in Qatar.

It seems it was us who decided the cause of death is constructing World Cup infrastructure, based on absolutely nothing. That is, assuming the only source is that bullshit chart that has been around for years... Which is the only which is brought up frequently.

Pretty much spot on.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Are any of them involved with being used as a propaganda tool to obfuscate Qatari slave labor related to their WC construction ?

Well they all supported the Qatari bid.

 

[Americano]

I don't care that much. I obviously didn't want him to even leave us, never mind go to Qatar and retire there. However, just like many other players before him, he is there to play football and is free to support the development of football in Qatar.

Actually, he is being paid to whitewash corruption, fraud, and human rights abuses. He is the smiling Mickey Mouse waving out front to distract you from the Tragic Kingdom behind the shiny veneer.

Although I suppose as a former Barcelona player, he is quite accustomed to and comfortable with taking money from Qatar.

 

[Raoul]

Well they all supported the Qatari bid.

The bid was obviously corrupt. The issue surrounding Xavi deals with tacitly supporting Qatar's slave labor after the decision was made.

 

[Arruda]

Why are they arresting and detaining reporters who are there to investigate the working conditions?

I don't know. I can speculate. Perhaps because working conditions are shit and make for excellent western TV in the midst of a FIFA scandal. And because Qataris are used to limit freedom of press and have no trouble doing it if they think it will avoid harm to their image in the outside.

That said, I don't know why you would question me that. I'm merely questioning the validity of the "world cup deaths" claim and have stated why I am doing it (because of the BBC article posted before). You are not dismissing my points, and I am not an expert on what you are asking (which is different), so I don't understand your point.

 

[Stack]

Not really. I'm questioning why do we assume that the first statistic (deaths in migrant workers in Qatar) is caused by dangerous work conditions and unsanitary living conditions when this information isn't backed by any reliable data at all. All we know is that those people die.

The second statistic is merely to back up my point - people in all corners of the world, in that age group, die in similar numbers, from varied causes (suicide, natural death, homicide, accidents). If the 300 or so Indians that die in Qatar each year die from dangerous work conditions, then where are all the deaths from other causes? Because that's what the numbers we have from deaths in Qatar are, blunt mortality statistics. Amazing how so poor data can go so viral and basically assumed as fact by anyone who has ever read a piece about the issue.

Point is: Qatar may be a crock of shit, but let's keep the discussion sane. That chart that goes around compares actual deaths in infrastructure construction (from other countries) with all cause mortality in migrant populations (in Qatar). Which means, it's an incredibly disingenuous source to bash Qatar.

We had a lot of Eastern Europeans here in Portugal working for Euro 2004. A few hunderd thousand, they made up 4% of the population at some point. Quite a lot of them died, many in the hospital I work at. Almost none (if any at all) from working conditions or accidents. I'd find it pretty stupid if in Ukraine people were writing articles about how Ukrainians were dying in Portugal constructing stadiums. Particularly if those deaths were counted even before we'd been given Euro 2004.

Understood. It appears there are a number of things in play. There is an issue in some countries with the treatment of migrant workers especially for bigger projects. There is a need to try and highlight those issues and force change. Highlighting problems at the preparation for the worlds biggest sporting event would be an obvious target. Also there is the issue of Qatars bid being unpopular in many countries.
So the problem for me is working out what the true facts are. Im a bit lost at this point on that.

 

[Americano]

I don't know. I can speculate. Perhaps because working conditions are shit and make for excellent western TV in the midst of a FIFA scandal. And because Qataris are used to limit freedom of press and have no trouble doing it if they think it will avoid harm to their image in the outside.

That said, I don't know why you would question me that. I'm merely questioning the validity of the "world cup deaths" claim and have stated why I am doing it (because of the BBC article posted before). You are not dismissing my points, and I am not an expert on what you are asking (which is different), so I don't understand your point.

Why would I question you that? Because you say there is no proof or no statistics. The people who are trying to get proof are put in jail. You do the math.