Xavi Sells Out to Qatar aka Chemical Xavi

[stevoc]

It seems it was us who decided the cause of death is constructing World Cup infrastructure, based on absolutely nothing. That is, assuming the only source is that bullshit chart that has been around for years... Which is the only which is brought up frequently.

Maybe mate but the ITUC like myself probably don't trust the Qatari governments official line on this, sure they got the numbers from the embassies but the official causes of death will be decided by the Qataris and that info passed to the respective embassies. So only the Qatari government know for certain how many died from construction, and they are answerable to no one really.

But personally i have worked with people who have themselves worked in similar countries in the middle east or have family/friends who have and they tell me there were numerous deaths on sites in their experience. Some real horror stories about the working conditions over there.

Conversely i have worked on construction sites in 6 countries over almost 20 years and remember only one death on a site i worked on.

From that point of view i personally can believe many of these deaths are happening on construction sites. I could be wrong but that's my view.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Actually, he is being paid to whitewash corruption, fraud, and human rights abuses. He is the smiling Mickey Mouse waving out front to distract you from the Tragic Kingdom behind the shiny veneer.

Although I suppose as a former Barcelona player, he is quite accustomed to and comfortable with taking money from Qatar.

Seriously?

The bid was obviously corrupt. The issue surrounding Xavi deals with tacitly supporting Qatar's slave labor after the decision was made.

Supporting slave labor? Come on. What decision?

 

[Arruda]

From that point of view i personally can believe many of these deaths are happening on construction sites. I could be wrong but that's my view.

Well, certainly in places where safety standards are poorer people will die more in such circumstances. That's probably the reason why more people died in Brazil or South Africa than in Germany. But the way we've been interpreting data from Qatar has been incredibly biased in terms of magnitude. There are certainly a lot of things wrong there, but this apocalyptic image we build in our heads of people falling from skyscrapers every day or dying from thirst/hunger is probably very far from the truth as well. There are enough problems with Qatar as it is (basic human rights, the exit visas issue, etc) that I don't think we need to make up more stuff. For all I imagine, they are probably paying top engineers and such and saving no money in having modern construction equipment and materials. Workers having poor human rights and living conditions is an issue in many parts of the world, that doesn't necessarily mean they're being almost murdered as we've been led to believe.

More than anything, at the moment I'm annoyed at the poor quality of information we have circling around these days. I myself quoted that chart in plenty of discussions and so found the BBC article very enlightening to correct my view on the issue, and perhaps make it more realistic. They really didn't fidget with stats, it was the persons who made the chart that assumed the source of their data. They were just completely ignorant in the way they presented it, and media from around the world picked up on it and transmitted it for months without ever questioning it.

 

[fontaine]

Xavi has blood in his hands!!

Nah don't overreact, people..

 

[Snow]

Qatar Airways has a mandatory clause for all stewardesses that if they were to get pregnant they get the sack. Xavi is a big supporter of this. Not only has he been playing the whole season with that company proudly on his chest, he then moved there to be closer to it.

 

[prarek]

 

[suheilsworld]

My question is how many of you have actually worked in Qatar or been to Qatar. Sometimes its easier to get carried away with what media writes and everywhere in the world media is biased to certain contingent. I for one would really like to hear views and comments of people who have worked there.

It is very easy to find articles talking good and bad about everything in the world....

 

[Sir Matt]

It's to be expected. Barcelona are quite morally flexible, whether it is palling around with dictatorships (see: Barcelona's relationship with Bunyodkor FC in Uzbekistan and their dictator), whoring themselves for exploitative royalty who try to build influence around the world on the backs of foreign slave labor (see: Barcelona's relationship with Qatar), dodging the tax man (see: Neymar deal, Messi), or breaking FIFA's youth player rules. They even signed a known racist cannibal to play up front!

Well, certainly in places where safety standards are poorer people will die more in such circumstances. That's probably the reason why more people died in Brazil or South Africa than in Germany. But the way we've been interpreting data from Qatar has been incredibly biased in terms of magnitude. There are certainly a lot of things wrong there, but this apocalyptic image we build in our heads of people falling from skyscrapers every day or dying from thirst/hunger is probably very far from the truth as well. There are enough problems with Qatar as it is (basic human rights, the exit visas issue, etc) that I don't think we need to make up more stuff. For all I imagine, they are probably paying top engineers and such and saving no money in having modern construction equipment and materials. Workers having poor human rights and living conditions is an issue in many parts of the world, that doesn't necessarily mean they're being almost murdered as we've been led to believe.

More than anything, at the moment I'm annoyed at the poor quality of information we have circling around these days. I myself quoted that chart in plenty of discussions and so found the BBC article very enlightening to correct my view on the issue, and perhaps make it more realistic. They really didn't fidget with stats, it was the persons who made the chart that assumed the source of their data. They were just completely ignorant in the way they presented it, and media from around the world picked up on it and transmitted it for months without ever questioning it.

The reason the data is presented that way is that it's only obtainable, in any reliable form, from the governments of the deceased's home nations. The Qatari government will not reveal accurate numbers for obvious reasons, and the home nations will not have accurate information beyond that they died. It's not as though the Nepali or Indian governments is going to send over a medical examiner for every death to perform an inquest. Sure, that would be the most accurate way to present it, but it's impossible and allows the Qataris to continuously obfuscate the reality on the ground. If I remember correctly, the numbers of deaths are likely higher because the figures in the graph are only based off those whose countries report them. It leaves out immigrants from nations other than Nepal and India, who are the majority. If Qatar wants accurate figures, allow independent journalists, i.e., those who don't work for Qatar, to do their job and report the facts.

Qatar's desire to ignore the problem is why they habitually arrest journalists who try to investigate conditions. You will never see Al Jazeera properly report the abuses in Qatar because they are employees of the Qatari royal family (every story they have is re-spouting wire stories). They want to prevent other outlets from doing their jobs and investigating it to present a better picture of the reality in Qatar for workers. Limiting the numbers to deaths does do a disservice to the workers who suffer under the Qatari labor laws though. Many are maimed, malnourished, or sick because of the conditions they work and live in. That doesn't get mentioned as much as the deaths, likely because anyone trying to report it ends up in jail with their material destroyed.

The reason it's a problem specifically in Qatar is that they want to play "first world nation" on the international stage despite their poor human rights situation (labor laws, sponsorship of extremist groups, etc.). It's why they invest so heavily in PR with sponsorships of football teams, Al Jazeera/Bein Sport, etc. They continue to ignore the issues because acknowledging them would hurt their international standing. Most Gulf nations think that their oil money buys them a certain level of standing on the international stage, but they cannot expect the respect of the developed world when they insist on archaic, exploitative labor systems, especially when their countries are some of the wealthiest in the world per capita. They think the World Cup they bought will bring them prestige, but it will more likely, if it's not taken from them, end up being an indictment of the Royal family. Their arrogance, particularly with their corruption, is shocking. An hour before the vote was even announced for 2022, the bid chair told Al Jazeera closed circuit feed that they had won the vote.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar? Raul's? Batistuta? Guardiola? Zidane?

No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.


:-p

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.


:-p

 

[Siorac]

Ah, the old "wrong thread" approach

Anyways, I don't have a problem with what Xavi did. The dude is doing his job. The cnuts in this scenario are the Qatar government, FIFA, and the numerous companies worldwide who sponsor such activity.

As someone on a previous page said, he could afford to do the right thing and NOT endorse a regime and a World Cup like this one.

He's well within his rights to do so for big money he doesn't actually need; we're also within our rights to call him out on it.

Yes, companies who sponsor such activities are cnuts; which is why a multimillionaire superstar shouldn't assist them. Star players like Xavi will attract more sponsors even though they could easily afford to turn their back on the whole thing. It's fair enough to say that footballers aren't the brightest and therefore shouldn't be expected to figure out all this but that doesn't mean they should be exempt from criticism.

 

[rcoobc]

My question is how many of you have actually worked in Qatar or been to Qatar. Sometimes its easier to get carried away with what media writes and everywhere in the world media is biased to certain contingent. I for one would really like to hear views and comments of people who have worked there.

It is very easy to find articles talking good and bad about everything in the world....

All of us have worked or been to Qatar

 

[Sir A1ex]

Nobody knows but the Qatari government said there have been 0 fatal accidents on World Cup projects.

Well that says it all. Why would they make up such a stupid figure, and why aren't the numbers easily available, without having to make estimates based on figures from the workers' home nations?
I'm pretty sure that you can find exact details of every fatal accident at any given construction site in most developed countries. Do they not have a coroner in Qatar?

 

[Bebe]

feck Xavi. It's pathetic to see an icon endorsing this tragedy.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well that says it all. Why would they make up such a stupid figure, and why aren't the numbers easily available, without having to make estimates based on figures from the workers' home nations?
I'm pretty sure that you can find exact details of every fatal accident at any given construction site in most developed countries. Do they not have a coroner in Qatar?

It's confusing actually. From what I've read, very few deaths have to do with the actual construction work, and most seem to have to do with life and systems in place in Qatar.

 

[Nanook]

Well that says it all. Why would they make up such a stupid figure, and why aren't the numbers easily available, without having to make estimates based on figures from the workers' home nations?
I'm pretty sure that you can find exact details of every fatal accident at any given construction site in most developed countries. Do they not have a coroner in Qatar?

I don't understand what figure you think is made up? The 0 accidents? The figures aren't estimates, they're exact numbers given by the embassies of those countries.

 

[Nanook]

It's confusing actually. From what I've read, very few deaths have to do with the actual construction work, and most seem to have to do with life and systems in place in Qatar.

There is a very real possibility that working conditions have caused some deaths in Qatar, it would be naive to say otherwise but the overwhelming majority of migrant deaths in Qatar are just natural causes, people who undiagnosed heart conditions, people who drive like morons etc.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

There is a very real possibility that working conditions have caused some deaths in Qatar, it would be naive to say otherwise but the overwhelming majority of migrant deaths in Qatar are just natural causes, people who undiagnosed heart conditions, people who drive like morons etc.

That's why I'm not entirely convinced by the shit storm people are creating over it. It seems to me that it's a country that's a bit of a mess, and help and focus on the real issues rather than demonising would be the logical course of action. Of course, FIFA as football's organising body have to take cognisance and do the correct thing if their actions are leading to human rights violations.

However making a big deal out of a footballer who is an embassador of quatari football now, which I should make clear is not a bad thing, seems misplaced. He's just said that World Cup will be good for players in that second quote. Hardly a big deal.

 

[Sir A1ex]

I don't understand what figure you think is made up? The 0 accidents? The figures aren't estimates, they're exact numbers given by the embassies of those countries.

The zero accidents is clearly made up. We're expected to bleieve that of around 1,800 deaths amongst construction workers, none were on World Cup construction sites?

I know the others aren't estimates, but they can only be used as estimates of how many people are dying because of the World Cup construction. If you wanted to know how many people died building Wembley Stadium, would you approach the ONS for overall death numbers amongst young men in London? No, you'd find coroner reports on specific industrial accidents. Why are these not available in Qatar? And why do they arrest journalists who try and obtain more accurate figures?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

This is worth a read: http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-migrant-workers-dying-qatar/20977

Here's an excerpt on how dodgy it is to claim that the death of migrant works is a normal thing/up to standard against figures from their home country.

That press release from the Qatari government gives the impression that there is no health risk at all attached to being a foreign worker in Qatar – quite the opposite, in fact:

“Qatar has more than a million migrant workers. The Global Burden of Disease study, published in The Lancet in 2012, states that more than 400 deaths might be expected annually from cardiovascular disease alone among Qatar’s migrant population, even had they remained in their home countries.”

But this looks to us like another example of dodgy statistics.

The Embassy of Nepal said 191 Nepalese workers died in 2013, adding that “most deaths were a result of cardiac arrest”, according to DLA Piper.

A former Nepali ambassador to Doha has put a more precise figure on the proportion of migrant worker deaths attributable to “sudden” heart attacks: 55 per cent.

This is back-of-envelope stuff, but let’s say there are indeed about 100 sudden cardiac deaths out of 400,000 Nepalese workers.

The Qatari argument is that this is better than the figures for Nepal.

Public health expert Professor Martin McKee from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine said the Qataris appear to be making two mistakes here.

They seem to be comparing deaths from sudden cardiac death in Qatar with the whole death toll from all cardiovascular and circulatory disease reported in the Global Burden of Diseasedatabase.

Prof McKee thinks it would be better to single out one category of heart problem – ischemic heart disease – and narrow the deaths down to the 20 per cent or so of those deaths that occur suddenly.

It’s also misleading to compare the overwhelmingly male and mostly young adult Nepalese population in Qatar with the whole population of Nepal, especially because only those who are healthy will go to work in Qatar.

All things considered, Prof McKee thinks we would expect to see in the order of 12 deaths per 100,000 young Nepalese men a year from sudden heart attacks in their home country. That is a lot less than the 100 or so dying in Qatar.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

My question is how many of you have actually worked in Qatar or been to Qatar. Sometimes its easier to get carried away with what media writes and everywhere in the world media is biased to certain contingent. I for one would really like to hear views and comments of people who have worked there.

It is very easy to find articles talking good and bad about everything in the world....

It seems incredibly easy to find articles talking about atrocious (not bad, atrocious) working conditions in Qatar (for the immigrants from India, Pakistan..., not occidental expats of course) by reputable sources.

 

[Sir A1ex]

Shall we test OP's self righteousness?

1 million US dollars for you to endorse something you don't believe in, with nothing more than a single line in front of a camera. Do you accept?

That's entirely not representative.

Xavi will have had all sorts of lucrative offfers to continue his lucrative career. Qatar may have been the most lucrative of them, but not by any sort of future-defining margin.

So your question should be something like "A 10% pay increase for you to endorse something you don't believe in, with nothing more than a single line in front of a camera. Do you accept?".
And you'll probbaly find that yesw, many people have had, to some degree (possibly not pro-actively, but the option is there to approach whoever you want for a job), an opportunity to work in a role they are not happy with ethically, and have passed on the chance.

 

[suheilsworld]

It seems incredibly easy to find articles talking about atrocious (not bad, atrocious) working conditions in Qatar (for the immigrants from India, Pakistan..., not occidental expats of course) by reputable sources.

That is what I am saying. You will find similar articles for other Gulf countries too. But what I have heard from few friends who have been staying there, is that the basic facilities provided within the industrial sector are quite commendable.

The thing is, the country has been getting highlighted in the media much before the WC bid as it is one of the next growing Gulf nation and is looking to emulate Dubai and it's growth. Receiving the WC bid has put Qatar under intense scrutiny (for good and bad reasons).

I for one truly appreciate the efforts (including money / bribe, if paid) to get a global tournament like football WC to Gulf. I can see UAE doing the same soon with already U-20s being hosted here in the past.

 

[Nanook]

The zero accidents is clearly made up. We're expected to bleieve that of around 1,800 deaths amongst construction workers, none were on World Cup construction sites?

I know the others aren't estimates, but they can only be used as estimates of how many people are dying because of the World Cup construction. If you wanted to know how many people died building Wembley Stadium, would you approach the ONS for overall death numbers amongst young men in London? No, you'd find coroner reports on specific industrial accidents. Why are these not available in Qatar? And why do they arrest journalists who try and obtain more accurate figures?

Yeah it's not hard to believe when you look at the numbers. There are about 1 million construction workers in Qatar and it was over a 3 year period from 2010-2013. How would you find a coroner's report if there's no accidents? Have they arrested journalists specifically for that reason?

 

[Sir A1ex]

Yeah it's not hard to believe when you look at the numbers. There are about 1 million construction workers in Qatar and it was over a 3 year period from 2010-2013. How would you find a coroner's report if there's no accidents? Have they arrested journalists specifically for that reason?

So contrary to the famous diagram, Qatar have actually developed new ultra-safe construction methods which have enabled them to build 9 new stadia, from scratch, without a single worker death?

Forgive me for being sceptical about this.

 

[Arruda]

So contrary to the famous diagram, Qatar have actually developed new ultra-safe construction methods which have enabled them to build 9 new stadia, from scratch, without a single worker death?

Forgive me for being sceptical about this.

FFS, most of the stadiums haven't even been built yet. Is everyone gone mad? The World Cup is in 2022. That diagram is absolute bullshit. It's an urban myth.

As for building such large infrastructures without an accident happening here or there it's not believable, but with modern construction techniques, top engineers, materials and equipment it's not far fetched to think very few will actually die from accidents.

Human rights and working conditions, health support, etc, is a different issue entirely.

 

[stevoc]

This is worth a read: http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-migrant-workers-dying-qatar/20977

Here's an excerpt on how dodgy it is to claim that the death of migrant works is a normal thing/up to standard against figures from their home country.

It’s also misleading to compare the overwhelmingly male and mostly young adult Nepalese population in Qatar with the whole population of Nepal, especially because only those who are healthy will go to work in Qatar.

All things considered, Prof McKee thinks we would expect to see in the order of 12 deaths per 100,000 young Nepalese men a year from sudden heart attacks in their home country. That is a lot less than the 100 or so dying in Qatar.

This is the interesting bit and sort of ties in with a point i was trying to make earlier in the thread. The Qatari Government are using stats which state on average 300 men 18-45 will die out of every 500,000 in the UK every year and that may be true, so their death rates are normal. But these won't be 500,000 young healthy men fit for travelling to another country for construction work, many are probably born with or develop serious diseases/conditions that would rule them out of this type of work in the first place.

So i find it interesting that this guy reckons the death rate should be much smaller than even what the Qatari's are reporting, before we even consider the claims from some sources that the death rates may be even higher.

 

[Kaos]

The thread title

And yes this is shameful. Its one thing for a multi-millionaire to whore himself out for a country, its another when that country happens to be a bigoted, borderline slavery-endorsing autocratic state.

 

[Arruda]

This is the interesting bit and sort of ties in with a point i was trying to make earlier in the thread. The Qatari Government are using stats which state on average 300 men 18-45 will die out of every 500,000 in the UK every year and that may be true, so their death rates are normal. But these won't be 500,000 young healthy men fit for travelling to another country for construction work, many are probably born with or develop serious diseases/conditions that would rule them out of this type of work in the first place.

So i find it interesting that this guy reckons the death rate should be much smaller than even what the Qatari's are reporting, before we even consider the claims from some sources that the death rates may be even higher.

Which is probably why the death toll numbers are far lower in, say Qatar, than in the United States, where you can expect a mortality of close to 1000/half a million in a 25-44 age group.

Violent deaths though, are still by far the leading cause of mortality in that group, and healthy young men fit for travelling aren't exempt from those. And as you can see in that age group, accidents, homicides and suicides can easily account for much more than half the deaths, let alone if you add diseases that develop more acutely. Of course comparing this sort of data is always problematic, as certainly workers drive less (but are still driven by others in the most dangerous roads in the world) and I doubt they have access to fire arms at all.

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_All_Deaths_By_Age_Group_2010-a.pdf

And yeah, I have no doubt a country like Qatar will report these things very poorly. I doubt they'd report suicide. But I think it's a stretch to think they're dying in construction places with modern construction techniques. And I've yet to see a picture of a construction site in Qatar where the builders aren't using standard equipment like helmets or reflectives. Add the best engineers in the world to that, and a country that wants to save no money in doing these things rights, and the question sort of becomes "why do we expect them to die at all"?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Which is probably why the death toll numbers are far lower in, say Qatar, than in the United States, where you can expect a mortality of close to 1000/half a million in a 25-44 age group.

Violent deaths though, are still by far the leading cause of mortality in that group, and healthy young men fit for travelling aren't exempt from those. And as you can see in that age group, accidents, homicides and suicides can easily account for much more than half the deaths, let alone if you add diseases that develop more acutely.

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_All_Deaths_By_Age_Group_2010-a.pdf

That table has around 15,000 from heart disease in that age group- this is of about 112 million people... so I don't see how it equates to those Qatar statistics at all? Unless that's not the point your making?

 

[Arruda]

That table has around 15,000 from heart disease in that age group- this is of about 112 million people... so I don't see how it equates to those Qatar statistics at all? Unless that's not the point your making?

No, it's not. My point is that the vast majority of people in that age group who die, do so from violent death even in one of the most modern countries of the world. I.E, "fit to work". Only a minority would have long term health conditions that would make them unable to work.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

No, it's not. My point is that the vast majority of people in that age group who die, do so from violent death in even one of the most modern countries of the world. I.E, "fit to work". Only a minority would have long term health conditions that would make them unable to work.

Right, but that doesn't explain why such a large amount of migrant workers seem to be dying from heart problems - when the liklihood is, they were fit and healthy when they entered the country to work.

 

[Rowem]

You know Fergie said some pretty odd things about Qatar as well.).

Sir Alex toed the line everyone does at some point.

Is Sir Alex Ferguson's legacy tarnished by his support for Qatar?

Is this the new Reductio ad Hitlerum?

What shall we call it...

1) Reductio ad Fergusonum
2) Reductio ad Fergyum
3) Reductio ad SirAlexum

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Right, but that doesn't explain why such a large amount of migrant workers seem to be dying from heart problems - when the liklihood is, they were fit and healthy when they entered the country to work.

Could the answer be in extreme differences in temperature? Harder to adapt? From 20 celsius to almost 50 in some months...

 

[Nanook]

Right, but that doesn't explain why such a large amount of migrant workers seem to be dying from heart problems - when the liklihood is, they were fit and healthy when they entered the country to work.

2013 was a bad year though with 191 dying, in 2011 and 2012 it was 161 & 169 deaths, if 55% of those died it would bring it closer to the 48 you'd expect to see die of heart attacks. The worst month for migrant deaths is unsurprisingly July, for 5 straight months in Qatar temperatures regularly hit over 100 Fahrenheit, coming from a country with a much milder climate it's not surprising that they're more at risk to heart attacks.

 

[Arruda]

Right, but that doesn't explain why such a large amount of migrant workers seem to be dying from heart problems - when the liklihood is, they were fit and healthy when they entered the country to work.

Well, they're either not dying from heart problems, or they weren't that fit and healthy. I'm not trying to defend Qatar government, let alone suggest that they have a properly functioning coroner office. Who knows what kind of work they do there? Perhaps they assume deaths like heat exhaustion (which are probably a lot more common in a construction environment in Qatar than in Nepal) as sudden cardiac death, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have proper medical support or don't perform medico-legal examinations to everyone they should by our standards.

I'm just challenging the strange notion that we all started to believe that workers are dying in insane numbers (they're not) constructing stadiums (nothing reliable points to this). On the surface, it seems more that they're just victims of poor living conditions, of a strange and unacceptable "Kafala" system, and probably aren't paid very well. It's a stretch to go from this to mean that Qataris have an utter disrespect for these peoples lives and allow them to die in a myriad of ways like one imagines (perhaps also abusively ) in pyramids building era.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Could the answer be in extreme differences in temperature? Harder to adapt? From 20 celsius to almost 50 in some months...

2013 was a bad year though with 191 dying, in 2011 and 2012 it was 161 & 169 deaths, if 55% of those died it would bring it closer to the 48 you'd expect to see die of heart attacks. The worst month for migrant deaths is unsurprisingly July, for 5 straight months in Qatar temperatures regularly hit over 100 Fahrenheit, coming from a country with a much milder climate it's not surprising that they're more at risk to heart attacks.

But then that's a problem isn't it? You'd expect a country - and a country that has aims of being a 1st world country - to have laws/procedures in place - especially in such a burning hot country - to make sure thhis sort of thing doesn't happen.

Well, they're either not dying from heart problems, or they weren't that fit and healthy. I'm not trying to defend Qatar government, let alone suggest that they have a properly functioning coroner office. Who knows what kind of work they do there? Perhaps they assume deaths like heat exhaustion (which are probably a lot more common in a construction environment in Qatar than in Nepal) as sudden cardiac death, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have proper medical support or don't perform medico-legal examinations to everyone they should by our standards.

I'm just challenging the strange notion that we all started to believe that workers are dying in insane numbers (they're not) constructing stadiums (nothing reliable points to this). On the surface, it seems more that they're just victims of poor living conditions, of a strange and unacceptable "Kafala" system, and probably aren't paid very well. It's a stretch to go from this to mean that Qataris have an utter disrespect for these peoples lives and allow them to die in a myriad of ways like one imagines (perhaps also abusively ) in pyramids building era.

Well, as that article says, a lot of it might be deaths due to workers deaths that employers are getting written of as heart-attacks for insurance pupropses. It's hard to say... but ultimately, it comes down to whether you can seperate the World Cup causing deaths, and the country causing deaths. Where/when do people take the stand?

Ultimately, considering construction in the country is still in early phases, if things continue as is, it's not a stretch to think that a lot of deaths will come from the construction of the World Cup - be that on Stadia itself, or on roads, hotels etc - and Qatar hasn't exactly lent itself to wholly believable reporting so far, so it's impossible to say how many - if any - will be reported.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Is this the new Reductio ad Hitlerum?

What shall we call it...

1) Reductio ad Fergusonum
2) Reductio ad Fergyum
3) Reductio ad SirAlexum

Call it what you want

Hey hey hey

 

[stevoc]

Which is probably why the death toll numbers are far lower in, say Qatar, than in the United States, where you can expect a mortality of close to 1000/half a million in a 25-44 age group.

Violent deaths though, are still by far the leading cause of mortality in that group, and healthy young men fit for travelling aren't exempt from those. And as you can see in that age group, accidents, homicides and suicides can easily account for much more than half the deaths, let alone if you add diseases that develop more acutely.

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCID_All_Deaths_By_Age_Group_2010-a.pdf

If i'm reading that chart right mate it says there were around 15,000 deaths in the 18-45 age group in the US from heart problems out of how many men though?

Besides the professor in that article believes the death rate should be closer to 10 in 100,000 instead of the 100 in 100,000 thats seems to be the case in Qatar. If thats true then obviously something is wrong in Qatar then isn't it?

Another interesting bit in that article was Qatar's claim that there had only been 6 construction deaths in 3 years from 2011-2013, given that sheer scale of construction work going on in Qatar i find that highly unlikely as that would mean they have similar annual construction death rates to countries like Germany and the UK.

But even more interesting later in the article an official document from the the Qatar government states their migrant workers work in hazardous environments and more importantly :

“However, expert opinion suggests a rate of about four to five fatalities per 100,000 workers, approximately double the rate in the European Union.”

Given this in an official document it would seem to call bullshit on their other claim that they only averaged 2 construction deaths per year.

 

[Rowem]

Call it what you want

Hey hey hey

Reductio ad Fergyum sounds the best spoken but looks weird written. Ad Fergieum? Not sure if that's grammatically correct.

Ad Fergusonum is too clunky, ad SirAlexum is a bit better.

It's irrelevant really because I don't actually care, it's merely a smug and elaborate way for me to take the piss. Self-awareness bomb or what.