UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)

rcoobc said:
That can kill people though. Not that in this situation any of the vulnerable people would be out there.

Same short term I don't have a clue. Civilians in police clothing?
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Anything can kill people though. I'm firmly against doing any action that has a high chance of a fatality (such as opening fire on the rioters, like some people have said on here) but you need something forceful and firm enough to make these people think twice. Something along the lines of a taser should be enough.

Make it known that there will be a heavy army presence in most areas after curfew and that they have permission to use their tasers should they feel the need to.
 
Urbanned said:
Anything can kill people though. I'm firmly against doing any action that has a high chance of a fatality (such as opening fire on the rioters, like some people have said on here) but you need something forceful and firm enough to make these people think twice. Something along the lines of a taser should be enough.

Make it known that there will be a heavy army presence in most areas after curfew and that they have permission to use their tasers should they feel the need to.
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I think groups of plain clothes Army need to be involved, possibly helping those that the police can't. I have no idea if that is a good idea or not but its a thought. I'm not saying they should fight.
 
From the Guardian:

My colleague Richard Adams reports that the Enfield Sony building, according to its website, is a CD manufacturing plant.

"Looters may have thought it was full of PlayStations, in which case they would have been disappointed," Richard says.

Sony DADC Enfield, UK offers seamless one-stop-shop distribution services for the United Kingdom. With close ties to the Sony DADC manufacturing company in Southwater, customers are offered a convenient combination and handling of their disc replication and distribution.

As your single point of contact, Sony DADC covers the entire supply chain – from the receipt of your input data to the delivery of shelf-ready products to stores. Furthermore, you will profit from the synergies between the close link between our manufacturing and distribution, ensuring that you receive the flexibility you need to respond to market requirements.
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gregwar said:
it was kicking off on parliament street about an hour ago, 3/400 down from toxteth after the cars went up, and towards liverpool one.

not heard anything since so i'd assume it's quietened down for the night.

heading in tomorrow morning unless the trains have been cancelled.
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One of my mates has a penthouse just outside this circle of police so he's a bit gutted about his car down on the road :lol:
 
phelans shorts said:
Channel 4 news has learnt that the bullet that killed Mark Duggan and the bullet lodged in an officers radio were both fired by police.
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Well that's one thing. I really hope people can dissociate that event with this.
 
rcoobc said:
I think groups of plain clothes Army need to be involved, possibly helping those that the police can't. I have no idea if that is a good idea or not but its a thought. I'm not saying they should fight.
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What good are plain-clothed Army soldiers? Part of the point of bringing in the Army is visual effect of soldiers to those rioting. Very few of those looting will be caught and prosecuted, but bringing in a military presence could help to end the looting. They need to be visibly military and visibly serious. I don't think having them all walk in with assault rifles is a great idea, but it would be prudent to allow them hand guns, imo. If they're in a holster, it would take a lot of thought for the soldier to get it out, but it would at least offer him some protection. Otherwise, they're just cops in camo and helmets without some means of force to use against the scumbags.
 
Sir Matt said:
What good are plain-clothed Army soldiers? Part of the point of bringing in the Army is visual effect of soldiers to those rioting. Very few of those looting will be caught and prosecuted, but bringing in a military presence could help to end the looting. They need to be visibly military and visibly serious. I don't think having them all walk in with assault rifles is a great idea, but it would be prudent to allow them hand guns, imo. If they're in a holster, it would take a lot of thought for the soldier to get it out, but it would at least offer him some protection. Otherwise, they're just cops in camo and helmets without some means of force to use against the scumbags.
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I don't know it was just a thought I had, they might be able to go where the police can't.

Having them go in properly would certainly be the end option, but please not with loaded guns, even with blanks.
 
Sir Matt said:
What good are plain-clothed Army soldiers? Part of the point of bringing in the Army is visual effect of soldiers to those rioting. Very few of those looting will be caught and prosecuted, but bringing in a military presence could help to end the looting. They need to be visibly military and visibly serious. I don't think having them all walk in with assault rifles is a great idea, but it would be prudent to allow them hand guns, imo. If they're in a holster, it would take a lot of thought for the soldier to get it out, but it would at least offer him some protection. Otherwise, they're just cops in camo and helmets without some means of force to use against the scumbags.
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You need to reduce the chance of killing someone as much as possible though. Arming them with handguns increases that possibility, no matter how prudent they are to fire them. The fallout from estates etc if a looter gets shot would be 10x worse than it is right now.

A means of temporarily incapacitating them - eg. tasers - would be much better and much less deadly.
 
phelans shorts said:
Channel 4 news has learnt that the bullet that killed Mark Duggan and the bullet lodged in an officers radio were both fired by police.
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So what are we saying? The police have tried to make it look like they were shot at?

Just trying to get my bearings on this, which I actually know very little about after it being overshadowed by the riots!
 
Sir Matt said:
I think part of it is that they value what they have much more, especially if they're first generation immigrants. They don't take things for granted the way that many of us do. For most people, law and order(not the show) are two things that most people don't think about. They're just expected. I would guess that many aren't as trusting of the police nor do they have the dependence on them.

In other places there is often a greater sense of community amongst the people, like New York. If people were looting in NYC, the public would be much more aggressive in reaction. The average people have some ridiculous love and pride for the city that is rare.
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We have our fair share of hardened criminals in NYC. Look just this week we had this tough guy

Guy Who Drove Dad's Van Into Central Park Lake Was Once Stabbed By Mom: Gothamist

and then of course there's the upper east groper who's made his way across the parK

Upper East Side Serial Groper Attacks Woman...On The Upper West Side!: Gothamist
 
You don't need to have armed police or soldiers on the streets. Non-lethal weapons like water canons, pepper spray, tazers, and shot guns that fire non-lethal rounds is more than sufficient.

The police need a way of striking the instigators when they are out of throwing range.
 
mjs020294 said:
You don't need to have armed police or soldiers on the streets. Non-lethal weapons like water canons, pepper spray, tazers, and shot guns that fire non-lethal rounds is more than sufficient.

The police need a way of striking the instigators when they are out of throwing range.
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The point of the army to provide numbers more than anything else, I feel.
 
Urbanned said:
The point of the army to provide numbers more than anything else, I feel.
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Numbers will not be enough if they don't have the tool to respond. The looters are younger and faster than any soldier or policeman in riot gear. They can just get close and throw all sorts of shit and run off.
 
mjs020294 said:
Numbers will not be enough if they don't have the tool to respond. The looters are younger and faster than any soldier or policeman in riot gear. They can just get close and throw all sorts of shit and run off.
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True. To be fair no-one really knows how the Government is going to deal with it... I just hope that a rational amount of force is used.
 
RedKaos said:
Posting from a new laptop I take it.
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What do you take me for?....I've got a Mac...I don't need to rob a new one..

My shoes on the other hand are looking fresh.

Clapham's died down now, no people on the rob, but the fancy dress shop is still burning...mostly smoke. There's probably alot of acrylic in there
 
Urbanned said:
You need to reduce the chance of killing someone as much as possible though. Arming them with handguns increases that possibility, no matter how prudent they are to fire them. The fallout from estates etc if a looter gets shot would be 10x worse than it is right now.

A means of temporarily incapacitating them - eg. tasers - would be much better and much less deadly.
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You need to reduce the chances of a police officer or military person from getting killed, too. They're much more valuable to society than most of the lowlifes doing this. Committing such crimes deserves strong punishment and dissuasion. They've been acting with impunity and will do so until something is done to stop them.

Tasers would be all right for people with riot shields who could get in close, but it would be better to have bean bag-firing guns, rubber bullets, water cannons, special paintball guns with pepper spray-type powder inside. It would help to have large numbers of soldiers to help contain the groups and hopefully round some of them up.

With the 92 LA riots, at least the people were rioting over an affront to justice with cops getting off for beating Rodney King. These started over claims that the alleged coke dealer and gang leader didn't have a gun by his family and friends. The family aren't very likely to come out saying he was carrying a pistol, are they? I'm not ready to start a riot over something unsubstantiated from sources of dubious character. Now, there are unrelated scum who are just out for a laugh or to get a new tv. Worthless human beings.
 
I'm fecking shattered now I want to go to bed enough of this I say!!
 
Maroon Lucifer said:
How did the Americans quiet the riots in LA in 1992?
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First the California National Guard were called in. 4,000 soldiers. But they were not equipped to deal with the situation, delaying their arrival by a day or something. I think they ended up arriving on day 3.

In Koreatown, shop owners took to their rooves and engaged the rioters in gun battles.

Bush the first sent in 4,000 federal troops on day 4 or 5 and a curfew was enforced. That wrapped it up on day 5.

Also Bill Cosby told everyone to stop rioting watch the final episode of his show,
 
I'd just like to point out that eveyrone that's not in London is making a bigger deal out of this than those in...This isn't the LA riots, it isn't the French revolution, it's not consiously political, it's still just the disaffected youth acting out and burning down Nandos...I'm right in the middle of the South London bizzle and we aren't exactly all cowering in our homes.
 
Mockney said:
I'd just like to point out that eveyrone that's not in London is making a bigger deal out of this than those in...This isn't the LA riots, it isn't the French revolution, it's not consiously political, it's still just the disaffected youth acting out and burning down Nandos...I'm right in the middle of the South London bizzle and we aren't exactly all cowering in our homes.
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The LA riots weren't much different from the sound of it.
 
"From the sound of it" being the opperative phrase...I could well be wrong and this might develop, but from S.London ground zero it's being reported as much more inflamatory than it is...This is still just opportunist looting and 80-90% of London will be back to normal tomorrow, just like it was today. The LA riots at least had an ostensive purpose behind it. Any thoughts that this is still about Duggan are long gone.
 
Commadus said:
Is this youths from all backgrounds rioting ?
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Yup.

First night, the area being what it was...it looked like it was mostly black kids/youth.

But past couple of days, chavs of all colors and creed have joined in. But it's not all bad....

"Report from Soho Road in Handsworth that the local Sikh and Muslim youth have aligned on the streets to defend the businesses from rioters"
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Mockney said:
"From the sound of it" being the opperative phrase...I could well be wrong and this might develop, but from S.London ground zero it's being reported as much more inflamatory than it is...This is still just opportunist looting and 80-90% of London will be back to normal tomorrow, just like it was today. The LA riots at least had an ostensive purpose behind it. Any thoughts that this is still about Duggan are long gone.
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Not really. More like an excuse. As I said, the same.
 
By "backgrounds" I took you to mean class...not colour. It's not a racial riot...Why would anyone think it was just black youths? Anyone that knows anything about London would know it wouldn't be.

AlwaysRedwood said:
Not really. More like an excuse. As I said, the same.
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Except it was defined by personal violence...Specifically a truck driver being dragged from his cab and kicked in the head...something absent from these riots, which are mainly people nicking stuff and burning things...No offence, but not being here, you're just speculating by news footage*...Which is (IMO) the only thing in common so far with LA


* which isn't your fault btw, alot of people are, as everyone does with this type of thing..This is bad, but it's not nearly as mental as it's being portrayed ..It's not the arab Spring. London will function quite normally tomorrow, as it did today.
 
They should enforce night curfew.

Shot / decapacitate everyone caught out at night. At least for a few nights to make the situation condusive.

No, i don't symphathy on the looters / rioters.

You don't want to get killed, stay inside, you insist on going out, you get the flak.

Simple as that.
 
Not to worry the mighty EDL are here to protect britain
EDL said:
In light of todays events , we have closed the wall for posting. Please let the Police do their job , and stay away from any trouble areas. This is a public order issue , and not the concern of the EDL. As a Londoner I am horrified and saddened by todays events (as we all are) , if you require and further clarification - please contact your division leaders
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...or not
 
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