UK Riots (with the exception of Manchester which has its own thread)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The squaddies I have personally known (I rented a property to a few - never again) are a bit chavvy anyway.
The are taken out of their environment but after duty they are back in it and go back to their own ways. This time round they are a lot more hardened and I wouldn't want to mess with them.
Conscription is not the solution.
Another bit of Boris heckling from the Clapham clean up that wasn't played on any of our news networks...Despite it being far more interesting, and far more awkward for Boris. Annoyed I missed it, as I was standing exactly where he is 10 minutes earlier.
I am getting slightly annoyed at the amount of stuff our news isn't showing. There were hundreds of cameras and loads of interviews going on here and yet the TV are only showing the same 2 or 3 over and over. The woman who owned Dubvendor, the shop next to the one that was torched, was interviewed by about 3 reporters whilst I was there, making some equally salient points, whilst also condemning the rioting, and I haven't seen any of them anywhere on TV.
I am getting slightly annoyed at the amount of stuff our news isn't showing. There were hundreds of cameras and loads of interviews going on here and yet the TV are only showing the same 2 or 3 over and over. The woman who owned Dubvendor, the shop next to the one that was torched, was interviewed by about 3 reporters whilst I was there, making some equally salient points, whilst also condemning the rioting, and I haven't seen any of them anywhere on TV.
Ah yes, "Boris heckling". Serious issue that.
Having seen the pictures it has to be said that the English police does seem a bit incompetent and passive. They are just standing there taking a lot of shite and watching CCTV footage from a secure bunker somewhere. They might as well help the looters carry the tvs etc to the wans.
The first night it happens is understandable - they weren't ready, but that it can continue for 5 days. Here the measures would have been such that the looters would certainely not opt to go out for a second day. Another state that handles things like this well is Israel - there they don't play around with these kind of people.
The first night it happens is understandable - they weren't ready, but that it can continue for 5 days. Here the measures would have been such that the looters would certainely not opt to go out for a second day. Another state that handles things like this well is Israel - there they don't play around with these kind of people.
It's not heckling (my bad I suppose for wording it such) it's a bloke putting across the concernes of his age group to a Mayor who has no clue and no response.
Whether they can show it partly depends on who owns the footage.
Ah yes, but on the flipside we don't have policemen beating and killing the general public needlessly, so it's swings and roundabouts.
Yeah, but would find this disturbing and highly annoying. How on earth is it discussed if watercanons and plastic bullets can be used. This should have been used day 1 - then there wouldn't much much of an issue day 2 as the rioters wouldn't so keen on running around as it would hurt.
Now you have the situation where people are out protecting their own property - now that is dangerous.
True. But I can guarantee you the BBC & Sky Cameras were there. They have footage of Boris arriving in Clapham, and speaking to people on both Lavender Hill and St John's Road and outside Junction, so they obviously followed him as he walked form one to the other (this was by the Junction on Lavender Hill, were I was initially standing, the 'clean up' took place down the road in St Johns, which is were Boris headed next. There's BBC & Sky footage of him in all these places.)
The point is our News does seem to be leaning away from showing things like this. It was all about "where are the police?" on the first few nights, and since, every interview I've seen with a "former gang member" or youth worker who is called on to explain the riots has ended with the reporter (who's usually actually the anchor) butting in and saying "Yes, but, this is just mindless criminality isn't it?"..Or of course, just stupid people, who can obviously and easily be ridiculed..
I'm not 100% either way so far. There are both root factors and selfish motivations going on here IMO, and I'm not saying I agree 100% with this bloke, but I have noticed that there's far less reporting of this side of the story.
The police weren't allowed to do that before!
last shift tonight, a lot of the stuff going on now not being reported on the news. there are lots of groups gathering all over london, wearing face coverings but not actually doing much, a few small scale clashes with the police. lots of small vehicle and bin fires too.
These riots reflect a society run on greed and looting
David Cameron has to maintain that the unrest has no cause except criminality –
or he and his friends might be held responsible
These riots reflect a society run on greed and looting | The Guardian
David Cameron has to maintain that the unrest has no cause except criminality –
or he and his friends might be held responsible
These riots reflect a society run on greed and looting | The Guardian
Predictable, still funny though.
I had quite an interesting chat with my mate yesterday, about the possibility of more stuff happening. He agreed with me that the looting for looting's sake is over, but said his main worry now was that the political commentary on this would inspire an actual political cause, that wasn't there to begin with... Basically that talking about the rioting, and it's possible causes, will encourage more rioting, because it will provide legitimate causes.
I thought it was a bit far fetched, but interesting.
But surely those intelligent enough to think about and articulate those 'causes' will find more intelligent ways of how to promote and fight for them instead of burning shit down and stealing TV's?
put it this way while i cant go into any great detail there is a load of intel to suggest that it could all happen again through the weekend into next week. tonight is going to be very tense as its a week after duggan was shot and there are indicators of things possibly kicking off again, problem is that most of the stuff people ring the police about 90% of it turns out to be bull shit but everything has to be carefully followed up, there may not be much going on now but its all still bubbling and simmering very nastily just under the surface i can tell you that!
Young guy makes a very good point and while I doubt Boris was able to give a response half as articulate it would have been nice to hear what he had to say.
Rumours on my FB that asians from Bradford, Leicester, London, Manchester etc are planning to unleash revenge attacks in Birmingham, not sure if true, just relaying what's been passed on to me.
Same rumours were present yesterday. You'd hope the father's plea for peace will be respected - how will revenge attacks help anyone?
That's the point. Those rioting aren't coming up with reasons, because they don't really have them. They aren't doing this for Duggen, or for a cause, they're doing it for doing it, but then they're being told afterwards (indirectly most likely) by the more intelligent that they can blame it on social injustice and lack of opportunities...
All the early interviews with rioters were incoherent, and just idiots saying how joke and fun it was, then later on it was the same, except with some cursory "erm, yeah, I'm angry at..conservatives, or whoever it is"..Like that kid in Manchester who said he was out to get money, but then when prompted by the interviewer asking "so you're not angry?" he went "erm, yeah, I'm angry at the police init, cos they nick you for stupid stuff"...There've even been a couple of reports of kids (like, 14 year old kids) blaming it on job opportunities...Like feck they've ever looked for a job, but they've heard someone say it, so now it's a mantra they can spout when asked to justify it...
Then there's that woman interviewed in Manc with her kids, saying it was unfair that man in London got shot. She didn't even know his name, but she managed to seem angry about it. Many of them don't need a logical reason to get angry. They have a chip on their shoulder anyway, and all it needs is a bit of activation...
Almost like a perpetuating cycle..If you get my drift. That's what his point was.
Especially now that things seem to have calmed down a tad based on last night. What we don't need is vengeful asian youths, giving muslims a bad name again.. as one of the lads mentioned on Sangat TV, if the father of the lads is preaching peace, then the wider community have no right to riot under the pretence of revenge/justice.
Spot on, if anything I've been very pissed off with the likes of Dianne Abbott... just making excuses, whereas the conservatives fair play to them have seen through this bullshit.
The thing is though, privileged kids don't usually have the kind of upbringing and life situation that ends up with them going out looting without really knowing why, or feeling a vague incoherent anger that makes them want to fight police in the street. Instead they clap the police, then have a spot of lunch.
To be fair the only murderer I know is a middle-class kid from East Finchley. But in general. And not counting graphic designers obviously. They're just scum.
Well the thing is, there are underlying reasons. Whether those rioting are aware of them or not is a different matter (I know that seems like a strange thing to say, but, yeah, I understand it.)...There are a lot of problems with the underclass in this country and how they're treated/behave/reacted to/react etc..But my mates point was about the counter productivity of trying to "understand" at this particular time.
Personally I've no idea where I stand on this. My liberal barrometer is all over the shop.
I agree...His point was - is it in the best interests to be giving fuel to this anger by finding quasi-legitimacy in it, at this particular time?...He essentially seemed to be advocating a black out on "understanding" this right now. In favour of shutting it up, and dealing with it at a later date.
Kelvin Mackenzie said something similar on Newsnight the other night, while being made to look stupid by a rapper and a student. My basic rule is that anyone who ever advocates not trying to understand anything is wrong.
My basic rule is "do the opposite of Kelvin Mackenzie at all times"....
You clearly don't know how limited the paperboy market is ever since Louise Mensch closed the News of the World down you heartless bastard.
I agree that it won't always lead to a reform, but you can't say that it won't change some peoples lives for the better either.
I bet a bunch of looters are reading the Guardian looking for justifications as we speak.
True.
I think the solution has to be multi faceted as the problem is multi faceted. We can post on here in jest (well I did) but in reality providing a solution that you can also sell to the public will be hard.
Revenge attacks on who though?
Of course, that's why this kind of shit is never implemented. It's easier to come up with ideas, then it is to carry them through.
That's a bit presumptuous; I doubt many of them can read.
They're definitely watching the news...Trying to see themselves on telly.
They've already got a huge list of "justifications" from the television. Any more and they'll end up confused.
Bad news. The rioting has spread to Ireland.
Poor Paddy has just smashed his laptop screen after trying to loot Ebay.
Poor Paddy has just smashed his laptop screen after trying to loot Ebay.