Aye but Berba did go into a strop at Tottenham. Currently he has no need to and I don't think he will if he's hppy with his lot and so is SAF that's all that matters.
Berbatov | Fulham player
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Aye but Berba did go into a strop at Tottenham. Currently he has no need to and I don't think he will if he's hppy with his lot and so is SAF that's all that matters.
There are a number of reasons why he can't afford to is take the Spurs route. His next club will be a step down, age is not in his favour, and the salary he's picking up now isn't likely to be bettered.
He showed again last night how he slows the game down,we seem to be attacking at pace he gets the ball and everything slows down,we are now a very fast direct attacking team,it will be hard for him to get regular starting place in the side now.
This. Its called strength in depth. At some point this season, rooney will pick up an injury (hopefully just a short one) or need resting. To have a player of the calibre of Berbatov to step in is just a phenomenal demonstration of the squad depth we have.
So we should be content with a player, who costs us 100k a week, who isn't more effective then a 50k a week pay as you play 'supposed perma crock'....
I'm sorry but that is the biggest issue with Berbatov. He's cost us nearly 50 million pounds in fees and wages, and we should be content for him to be a bit part player because he likes his role.... Berbatov is good player, sometimes a great one, but I will never be grateful that such a player is bit part when they've cost so much. A player of his caliber and cost should be first choice not sitting on the bench.
When people say he is content, I doubt they mean he is content to just sit there and pick up a paycheck but, more to mean that he is not one to rock the boat and be patient. I doubt he is content to just sit there - SAF has been saying how he has been in training, been fantastic but, the form of others has been such that yes he is on the bench right now.
As a supporter I will always be more grateful of a player that respects this club by not making not an outward fuss about not starting or getting minutes. I am grateful that he doesn't show the attitude of well I am a 30million 100k a week earning player and so if you don't start me or play me I am going to sulk and throw a strop and try to disrupt the dressing room.
I am grateful that he is still training as hard as ever and that with as long a season we have and in as many competitions that we are in, that we have someone of his quality should the form of one of the other strikers that we have drop - keeping in mind the form of these other strikers is some of the best in the world today - that he can come in and we will have little or no noticeable drop in striking ability.
It's like saying Fabregas has gone to be content on the bench in Barcelona - normally he is being kept out of the team by players that are at the top of their game. But, when he comes on, there is little that Barcelona lose.
I am grateful that we have players such as Owen who are on a pay as you play deal, a player who is a 100k quality player who other teams would kill to have - when you see teams like Liverpool and Arsenal who are supposed top clubs that can't bring on someone like Owen. Owen is a top quality player who's only downside is his injury record. When fit - he is as good as any top quality striker that is earning 100k, so there is no shame in Berbatov being as effective as a player as Owen, one of the best finishers England has known
As a supporter I will always be more grateful of a player that respects this club by not making not an outward fuss about not starting or getting minutes. I am grateful that he doesn't show the attitude of well I am a 30million 100k a week earning player and so if you don't start me or play me I am going to sulk and throw a strop and try to disrupt the dressing room.
I am grateful that he is still training as hard as ever and that with as long a season we have and in as many competitions that we are in, that we have someone of his quality should the form of one of the other strikers that we have drop - keeping in mind the form of these other strikers is some of the best in the world today - that he can come in and we will have little or no noticeable drop in striking ability.
It's like saying Fabregas has gone to be content on the bench in Barcelona - normally he is being kept out of the team by players that are at the top of their game. But, when he comes on, there is little that Barcelona lose.
I am grateful that we have players such as Owen who are on a pay as you play deal, a player who is a 100k quality player who other teams would kill to have - when you see teams like Liverpool and Arsenal who are supposed top clubs that can't bring on someone like Owen. Owen is a top quality player who's only downside is his injury record. When fit - he is as good as any top quality striker that is earning 100k, so there is no shame in Berbatov being as effective as a player as Owen, one of the best finishers England has known
Did I say he prefers to be on the bench?
Did he set his price tag himself or did Fergie think it was worthwhile to pay the fee?
Can we stop the Berba bashing now, just because he's uncomplaining? What on earth will some of you blame him for next?
I heard he had a caravan at Dale Farm and didn't want to leave there either leave btw
Blame Fergie then if strength in depth is such a big issue.
Exactly . I can't believe his fee is still in such contention! Fergie must have thought he was worth it!
And is Berba supposed to say" look I feel terrible about all this sitting around, just pay me per minute "
Dude Fabregas is tearing it up in La Liga I believe he has just got a record 4 goals in 4 consecutive La Liga games from the start of the season.
No but did Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand etc? All of them lived up to their price tag and then some. Berbatov is relation quite clearly hasn't. In fact he hasn't even lived up to his weekly salary except for half a season and a few brief runs of form. That is something he does aid in setting!
In the end, if Berbatov delivered regularly like he can and should, there would'nt be people complaining. Nor would he be sitting on the bench.
I don't like repeating myself, but we had an offer for him in the window. Turning it down shows that Fergie clearly likes what he sees. As I said, the real test of his work ethic will be in training, and we can only assume it's putting the hours in, or else he'd be gone. By sitting on the bench for us, as part of our gameplan, he's not having a day off, he's giving up the chance to have his ego stroked by the fans and to get the glory.
I know some idiots in the mainstream media think a footballer's only "work" is 90 minutes a week, but you would hope posters on a football forum would know better.
I know some idiots in the mainstream media think a footballer's only "work" is 90 minutes a week, but you would hope posters on a football forum would know better.
Nobody is doubting Berbatov's quality as a player. I've said that he'd a good player who should be first choice. It's his value as a player for United. If he wasn't so high profile, if he wasn't so good when he wants to be, he probably wouldn't cop the stick. Look at Owen. Plays very little, but because he's low profile, isn't as good as he use to be, thus, he doesn't cop as much stick.
I don't know what your point is. Why are you so pissed off about how much he cost and how much he earns?
I have never understood this view, what difference does it make to you what his transfer fee was? You are not paying his wages, so why all the fuss about how it affects your personal contentment?
What you need to appreciate is that while Berba is on our books, we have a reasonable replacement for Rooney. Had we sold him in the summer, our whole system would be thrown out of sync as soon as Rooney gets injured.
So all you really need to consider is how much an alternative to Rooney would have cost in the summer, in addition to the rest of our summer acquisitions.
Further consider whether that player would have been content to sit on the bench until Fergie decides that Rooney needs a break, then look again at why you think Fergie decided to keep Berba. It's really not that hard to comprehend.
Its not about living upto your transfer fee as much as being weighed down by it.
Dude Fabregas is tearing it up in La Liga I believe he has just got a record 4 goals in 4 consecutive La Liga games from the start of the season.
Point made for me. He went to that club for a lot of money and was it not for the injury to Iniesta (or is it Xavi), he'd be riding the bench right now. That they have that quality of a player to come in and Barca not lose much at all is the situation we have with Berba. We have some strikers who are probably as good as any in current form out there but, should one of them get hurt, a player of Berba's quality to come on is just great for us.
That he is the model professional (outwardly - we don't know for sure what goes on behind) while he waits his chance is something I prefer to commend rather than try and twist it around as he's just here for the money and couldn't be asked if he was playing or not.
Who said we needed to buy an alternative? What is wrong with Young, Park, Nani, Anderson or Giggs playing in that hole position until Rooney is fit? With our current style of play, it looks more likely they'd be better equipped to fill that role then Berbatov does.
And you know why I care what Berbatov costs? because its the exactly the same reason why people complain about the cost of ticket prices. That is a cost that directly influences the running of the club. I may not pay his wages, but I sure as hell want the club to retain success. I don't want to see us shell at 50 million on fee and wages for a player that's only sometimes on form. For 50 million quid, I want another Rooney or Ferdinand. Berbatov's only shown that for half a season. You can't begrudge anybody for wanting a great player for that much.
For me, Berbatov is alot like a few buys we've seen Madrid and Barcelona make over the years. I'm talking, Zlatan, Kaka, Veron 'for us' etc. Big name buys for great players that weren't exactly necessary, that haven't worked out. He was another avenue, but as we've found since he joined, we've played better football without him.
This is a bit too dichotomous I would say.
The transfer fee is obviously an issue, not because it comes out of my pocket, but because we rarely splash out, and when we do, we expect to get a great Manchester United player in return. You obviously didn't expect the same from Berbatov as you expected from say, Obertan.
About selling him in the summer, if the offer from PSG was indeed on the cards, then I think we should have let him go. Personally, I think we would've been OK without him, and if not, there are plenty of strikers out there.
Anyway, I'm not fussed about us keeping him, he's a good player and if Fergie's happy then I'm happy. But it's clear for everyone to see that Berbatov's signing has been a failure. I think Fergie hoped he'll turn out to be a Cantona for us, but that hasn't quite worked out unfortunately.
Bloody Hell. Roy. Long time no see. What are you up to these days?
Back from the dead!
Ended up serving 6 years in the army and now I'm doing my masters in physics...Can't believe I joined the caf more than 10 years ago!
Physics? No more scouting then? Except for dark matter. 
It was a quick decade indeed.
It was a quick decade indeed.
None of that scouting stuff anymore, no. I don't think I was any good at it to be honest, but I do wonder what might have been! Would definitely have been an easier life mind you...
U
They may do a job, but what if he was out for months like back in 09? Our system is designed to operate around a technical deep playmaking striker, without Rooney, Berba is the next best we have got.
How would you know that? When you are basing all your judgements on how Berba has performed in the slower paced sysytems of the past 2 years?
Then your issue is with Fergie, it was his decision to sign Berba. As for the ticket sales, what a load of bollocks! The Glazer debt had more to do with increasing ticket prices than Berba's fee and wages. How have we not retained success by the way?
Again then your issue is with Fergie, you may deem Berba unnecessary, Fergie thought and apparently still thinks otherwise.
They may do a job, but what if he was out for months like back in 09? Our system is designed to operate around a technical deep playmaking striker, without Rooney, Berba is the next best we have got.
How would you know that? When you are basing all your judgements on how Berba has performed in the slower paced sysytems of the past 2 years?
Then your issue is with Fergie, it was his decision to sign Berba. As for the ticket sales, what a load of bollocks! The Glazer debt had more to do with increasing ticket prices than Berba's fee and wages. How have we not retained success by the way?
Again then your issue is with Fergie, you may deem Berba unnecessary, Fergie thought and apparently still thinks otherwise.
Hmm
Iniesta played 6
Fabregas played 6
Xavi played 8
You can try twist your point anyway you want but it doesnt hold. Fabregas had a chance and took it and has been playing excellent. Iniesta and Xavi are both fit and it was cesc performances as a sub that forced his way in.
I don't buy that Berba is just second fiddle to Rooney (thats sellig him short) - if he gets a chance and takes it he can force his way into the side - it's as much upto him to force the issue.
People were complaining even when he scored bucketloads last season.
Not really, there were 2 issues to address, so i addressed them both in the same post.
I agree, when big money is spent people's expectations are higher, of course. But high expectation does not excuse continually using a fee, (which Berba had no say in) as ammunition to criticise someone struggling to find their best form is nonsense imo. We are all disappointed that Berba has not turned out to be the player we hoped for, and that would be the same had we paid only£10m for him.
Furthermore, i hope for a great Utd player regardless of the fee involved, whether we actually get a great player is a different matter, and has nothing to do with the money spent.
If that's your opinion then no problem you are entitled to it. However in regards of their being plenty of strikers out there, how many of them would be second strikers, and if they are of sufficient quality how much would they cost? I would be surprised to find many who would be prepared to sit on our bench until Rooney needs a rest.
Not yet, but i am of the mind that this new quicker paced system we now play, will suit Berba as it did at Spurs. I also believe the fact we have not played such a dynamic system during Berba's time here is a significant factor in him not being as successful as initially hoped.
PSG were going to better it easily.
Exactly.
Above is my only point of contention. We have played quick football, slow football etc we vary the pace of the game we don't have one style. We like to use width its what SAF has employed.
Tottenham did not play quick football as much as gung ho football with midfielders pushing on past the strikers. You are confusing Tottenham brand of gung ho football with what we are playing now - shorter passing and more pressing from the front - like a blend of the best things we do - exp. wide play and the best things Barca do short passing and pressing high up the pitch.
Spurs played pacy football with width when Berbatov was with them and he thrived. To deny that is ridiculous.
Read what I said. It was tactically naive football - gung ho. We are playing a brand of quick football with pressing up the pitch and movement. To say Tottenham football leads to the way we are playing is nonsense.
It makes no difference. Spurs played with pace and he thrived. Bottom line. I don't care if you think they played kindergarten football.
Rather what is the real nonsense is to continue claiming speedy football doesn't suit Berbatov. The idea is utter bulshit. I don't care how organised we play. Surround Berbatov with pace and he thrives. It's that simple.
You are not getting my argument - as its you chief it doesnt come as a surprise.
When did I say speedy football does not suit Berba - quote me.
My argument to simplify it for you is that you cannot use the football played at Tottenham as overwhelming evidence and support that Berba would thrive under the football we are playing - its different. If he was tearing it up in training and roasting everyone you don't think SAF would have worked out a way to include him?
Valencia
Nani
Rooney
Hernandez
Young
Welbeck
Pace enough for you?
Heck we had Ronaldo or wasn't he quick enough?
We actually haven't really Commadus, that's the point. We now have players who will go past Berba into the box. In the last 2 seasons we have not had a system based around players capable of breaking into the box and scoring goals, it's not all about how fast we pass or whether we employ wingers or not.
Take last year, we had width but the midfield was slow to support and often the attackers were isolated or left with few options when we had the ball.
Our system now is still the same as last year, it is the players introduced this year that have changed the dynamics.
As Chief said Spurs played similarly when Berba was there and we bought him off the back of that form. No-one is sugesting Spurs were better than we are, only that they employed a fast system that clearly suited Berba.
We have never really played a system that suits Berba, and i feel this is why he has never regained that form that he showed for Spurs.
You are not getting my argument - as its you chief it doesnt come as a surprise.
When did I say speedy football does not suit Berba - quote me.
My argument to simplify it for you is that you cannot use the football played at Tottenham as overwhelming evidence and support that Berba would thrive under the football we are playing - its different. If he was tearing it up in training and roasting everyone you don't think SAF would have worked out a way to include him?[/QUOTE]
Not ahead of Rooney.
I get you very well. Your argument however just holds no water what so ever in my eyes. SAF has decided our current system is best used with a striker who can play make and operate deeper and one who plays on the defenders shoulders. It matters little how good a Berbatov is in training. He wont get in the side ahead of Rooney period. Rooney has to be rested or injured for him to see playing time.You are not getting my argument - as its you chief it doesnt come as a surprise.
When did I say speedy football does not suit Berba - quote me.
My argument to simplify it for you is that you cannot use the football played at Tottenham as overwhelming evidence and support that Berba would thrive under the football we are playing - its different. If he was tearing it up in training and roasting everyone you don't think SAF would have worked out a way to include him?
You are not getting my argument - as its you chief it doesnt come as a surprise.
When did I say speedy football does not suit Berba - quote me.
My argument to simplify it for you is that you cannot use the football played at Tottenham as overwhelming evidence and support that Berba would thrive under the football we are playing - its different. If he was tearing it up in training and roasting everyone you don't think SAF would have worked out a way to include him?
Look at it another way, there is only room in our team for one second striker.
If Fergie did not think Berba could cut it in that position why do you think he kept him on? I feel it is solely for covering Rooney's position, should he become injured.
By the same logic then surely you cannot use our slower paced football over the last 2 seasons as evidence that he can't.
He was our top scorer last season with those 4 in the side. You still doubt that he thrives around pace?
I'm willing to bet he'd be awesome with Cleverley and Anderson behind him and Young, Nani flanking him with a Hernandez/ Welbeck/ Owen ahead of him.
You just don't get that he is in direct competition with Rooney. That is the reason why he isn't playing often. Not because he doesn't thrive around pace.
Valencia
Nani
Rooney
Hernandez
Young
Welbeck
Pace enough for you?
Heck we had Ronaldo or wasn't he quick enough?
You are missing the point mate, Berba has not yet been tried playing with such pace. Play him in Rooney's position alongside such pace and we should see the best of him, that's the argument we are making.