Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

Crustanoid said:
If we're looking at this in the broader context of achieving equality and respecting diversity in the game and wider society then he absolutely has to. This should never be able to happen again. The actions of the club and official journalists in instigating a smear campaign against an individual, because he has spoken out about being racially abused, are disgusting. Their calls for his punishment for doing so were misguided and inflammatory. The authorities also have a role in investigating this and preventing future occurances.
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What astonishes me the most that they did not officially condemn the abuse Evra recieved from the Liverpool fans on twitter and other forums.

That should have been the minimum to control the damage they instigated by their conduct.
 
All those years of Liverpudlian 'siege-mentality' against outsiders and 'standing by your own' - commendable in some instances - have come back to haunt them; they've stood by someone who doesn't deserve the support of the community.
 
Crustanoid said:
If we're looking at this in the broader context of achieving equality and respecting diversity in the game and wider society then he absolutely has to. This should never be able to happen again. The actions of the club and official journalists in instigating a smear campaign against an individual, because he has spoken out about being racially abused, are disgusting. Their calls for his punishment for doing so were misguided and inflammatory. The authorities also have a role in investigating this and preventing future occurances.
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As Aporkalypse said:

Aporkalypse said:
Hilarious how the only side of the story to actually leak was the one Suarez/Liverpool provided, with the "South American" insult intact, "you're booking me because I'm black" and the single instance of "negro" being used by Suarez.

Doesn't really take a genius to work out where the leak was coming from does it? A shame it probably can't be proved, because that would make for another disciplinary hearing for sure.
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From the off there was only one club making leaks to papers etc, and though at the time we had suspicions everything in the papers were coming from Liverpool we couldn't be sure - until now. And I agree it's a shame that it can't be proved.

Then looking at RAWK, they're still talking about Evra's "exaggerations" etc. in the past and how everything's been reported in such a way to purposely drag Suarez's name through the mud, when, as the case was going on it was Evra who was being called into question (and still is).

When I was reading their site they also seemed to have a lot of lawyers posting, or friends of lawyers.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
I can honestly say, hand on heart, if it were Rooney...I'd have wanted him out of the door. Some things are more important than football, and in this day and age no one should have to endure the type of abuse that Evra put up with. I suspect if it were just the odd comment that he would've let it pass, but it wasn't as we all well know(the pinching of the skin....Christ what the feck's wrong with people?), and he did the right thing by highlighting it. But yeah...he's too valuable an asset to sack, however, keeping him will be more damaging, which is why I suggested they ought to sell him in the summer...and start Operation Clean Up or something. Because as it stands they condone racism. Let's see what Standard Charter think of it.
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That's fair enough, but it wouldn't necessarily be club policy. And it remains to be seen how sponsors will react to this. Suarez's status among Liverpool fans seems to have been enhanced by the whole thing, and any sponsors will still get the same exposure from having the name on the front of the shirt or whatever.

Neo_Mufc said:
Even if they do keep him (which is likely) how much is he worth now? (10-15 million? IMO). This racism charge will have taken a dent into his transfer fee.
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All the more reason they won't sell him, he's worth a lot more to them as a player than they'll actually get for him.
 
Yassir said:
Sorry cant agree with that. It's called integrity. If I was in a similar position in the workplace I would not support such actions, and if it led to me being ostracised then so be it

Kuyt reported that Suarez had told him he told Evra it's because you are black; I just can not believe that he found that acceptable and further showed his support by wearing the t-shirt. Disgusting.
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I agree. Integrity is key. If I were forced to show support to someone or some cause that I knew was in the wrong by my employers, I'd refuse, even if it meant risking my job and my income. It's a far bigger deal than if a footballer like Kuyt were to do such a thing - they'd still have their fortune to sustain them and offers of employment would not be hard to come by. They couldn't fine him as the PFA would be up in arms and the FA would not be impressed given the reasoning. Even the worst possible scenario would see him transfered out of the club - some might call that a result!

Actually, is it not the case that as well as wearing the shirt - after Suarez had told him that the had said "Because you are black" in answer to Evra - he deliberately conspired to tone down the comment along with Comolli? Also that he alleged that Evra said the the referee that "he was only booking him because he was black" and that Evra made a remark calling Suarez a "South American"? He doesn't seem to be the embodyment of integrity, does he (unless I am confused about the comments attributed to him in the report)?

I can't believe that at no point did anyone at LFC suggest that they were exacerbating their problems and dealing with everything in a stupid manner.
 
Damien1990 said:
When I was reading their site they also seemed to have a lot of lawyers posting, or friends of lawyers.
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...not to mention expert translators. Guess we'll have to end all those 'jobless Scousers' cracks. :D
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
I can honestly say, hand on heart, if it were Rooney...I'd have wanted him out of the door.
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Most certainly. These are the sentiments shared by other fans, too, when it comes to their own players (see Brian here on the caf regarding Terry for instance.)
 
SteveJ said:
...not to mention expert translators. Guess we'll have to end all those 'jobless Scousers' cracks. :D
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:lol: Yep. They also had a few people taking both sides into account, but as said earlier in this thread those were either banned straight away, or abused by other posters calling them WUMs/trolls etc.
 
Damien1990 said:
:lol: Yep. They also had a few people taking both sides into account, but as said earlier in this thread those were either banned straight away, or abused by other posters calling them WUMs/trolls etc.
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Yeah, mate. I've mentioned before that (in my view) RAWK is far from the worst of Liverpool fora; for example, take a look at this from another board:

As a black Liverpool fan for 25 years I am truly saddened by Liverpool`s and the majority of our fans stance on this. Liverpool and our fans NEED to look at the bigger picture and not back Suarez blindly. Would we be as defensive as this if it had been Christian Poulsen for example? Not a chance. Suarez is afterall our star player. I feel I have lost all support for Liverpool now.
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feck off then. We dont need supporters like you who back Utd despite there being no fecking evidence.
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Still, RAWK mods/admins' lead by (poor) example, and the example they've set is banning, locking, posting New Year's wishes to Suarez (I kid you not) and obliging members to have the tagline 'Luis Suarez is not a racist!' Pathetic.
 
You'd have to also question Fergie's mindset to get on the pitch, pretend to mark an opposition player, and think he could get away with racially abusing a player, unseen by everyone. Also his defence of being from Uruguay and there being a different context of the word wouldn't hold up too well either.
 
And if you wanted to know where the smear campaign against Evra started, it was IMMEDIATELY after the game. Here it is in black and white:

After the match Evra and United manager Sir Alex Ferguson both spoke to the referee about the incident, while Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish remarked to referee Marriner in reference to Evra, "Hasn't he done this before?"
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Perhaps Kenny is also responsible for that idiotic statement after the guilty verdict was released.
 
Even if he had done this before, which he hadn't, does this effectively make him immune to racism in Kenny's mind?
 
Skywarden said:
Most certainly. These are the sentiments shared by other fans, too, when it comes to their own players (see Brian here on the caf regarding Terry for instance.)
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Tribalism eh...it's a game, that's all it is. Not easy to've perspective but I'd like to think one changes as they get older. I dunno...perhaps all fans are not the same, Liverpool's probably the most parochial place in England, and that ethos embodies the football club and its fans(non locals as well). I hope, well, I'd like to think that other fans aren't as myopic. I hope they'll(LFC fans) look back at this and realise they suffered from collective delusion, but I suspect that'll never be case unless the club backtracks and issues an apology.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Perhaps Kenny is also responsible for that idiotic statement after the guilty verdict was released.
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I doubt he typed it though - after all, he gets his daughter to do his tweets (no joke).
 
SteveJ said:
Yeah, mate. I've mentioned before that (in my view) RAWK is far from the worst of Liverpool fora; for example, take a look at this from another board:





Still, RAWK mods/admins' lead by (poor) example, and the example they've set is banning, locking, posting New Year's wishes to Suarez (I kid you not) and obliging members to have the tagline 'Luis Suarez is not a racist!' Pathetic.
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I don't think much of them have an opinion and if they do are scared to talk out against Suarez in fear of not being accepted by RAWK. All their views are just Kennys. All the evidence is now backfiring and they're running out of fodder to keep them going.

We've managed to seperate some simple fachts why can't they?

Louise :lol:
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Perhaps Kenny is also responsible for that idiotic statement after the guilty verdict was released.
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Maybe so.

Anyone with half a brain would've just released a generic, non-committal statement: 'Disappointed with Luis's ban...We'll await the publication of the panel's findings, etc.'

I doubt the Americans had much of a say in that statement to be honest. I can't see them being so naive as to allow it to have been worded in that way. Unless, as someone said earlier, Kenny has the run of the place and he can do as he pleases.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
Tribalism eh...it's a game, that's all it is. Not easy to've perspective but I'd like to think one changes as they get older. I dunno...perhaps all fans are not the same, Liverpool's probably the most parochial place in England, and that ethos embodies the football club and its fans(non locals as well). I hope, well, I'd like to think that other fans aren't as myopic. I hope they'll(LFC fans) look back at this and realise they suffered from collective delusion, but I suspect that'll never be case unless the club backtracks and issues an apology.
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They need a change of environment for this to happen as their archaic tribalism mindset isn't going to go away on its own.

I fully agree with you, mind.
 
De Selby said:
Maybe so.

Anyone with half a brain would've just released a generic, non-committal statement: 'Disappointed with Luis's ban...We'll await the publication of the panel's findings, etc.'

I doubt the Americans had much of a say in that statement to be honest. I can't see them being so naive as to allow it to have been worded in that way. Unless, as someone said earlier, Kenny has the run of the place and he can do as he pleases.
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You would think step one is to make sure it is factually correct, if nothing else.

A good job all around.
 
I detest Collins, but anyway:

The match was over, the points were secure and Kenny Dalglish was screwing his face into a smile. The inquisitor from Sky TV assessed the manager’s mood and served him up a slow full toss.

‘Did Andy Carroll do everything but score tonight?’ he inquired. Dalglish grunted a few unrevealing platitudes, and the deferential tone was set.

Now, Dalglish is not the only Premier League manager who prefers to deal with docile flattery. In truth, most of them favour the kind of questions which are accompanied by a tug of the forelock.

But during a year which has seen Liverpool make qualified progress while spending money on an unprecedented scale, Dalglish has behaved with a prickly defensiveness which smacks of paranoia.

The Carroll issue is an obvious case in point. The world and his brother know that £35million was an outrageous amount to invest in a player whose ability was unproven and whose attitude was questionable.

They know that it was spent because the deal had to be done before the transfer deadline and Liverpool’s pockets were bulging with the £50m they received for the sale of Fernando Torres.

Above all, they know that Carroll has done little or nothing to justify that fee in the course of an unproductive year: £35m for a striker who does everything but score?

Naturally, we should expect the manager to defend his man but Dalglish has done so with thin-skinned surliness.

Carroll had been at Anfield for a matter of weeks when Dalglish complained about ‘negative’ questions. From there on, almost every reference to the player has been greeted with the same defensive hostility. It was as if Dalglish suspected that his own judgment was being questioned.

And that would never do. And yet there are questions to be asked about his decision to spend a total of some £50m on Jordan Henderson, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing. Do they really represent value for money, are they really men capable of lifting the side to a new level?

It would help if Dalglish did not treat simple discussion as rank impertinence, if he did not regard mild dissent as personal affront.

Which brings us, of course, to Luis Suarez. The Liverpool striker was charged with making racially offensive comments. The case was heard at length by an independent commission, chaired by a QC.

The player was found guilty and received an eight-match ban and £40,000 fine. An initial reading of the commission’s findings, published on Saturday night, suggests a scrupulously thorough and balanced process with an apparently appropriate sanction.

Yet through all this, Liverpool FC’s stance has been that of the affronted victim. Long before they saw the detailed findings, they called the decision ‘extraordinary’ and ‘incredible’.

They impugned the character of Patrice Evra. They allowed players and manager to parade in ‘supportive’ T-shirts, a piece of imbecilic posturing.

Dalglish himself plumbed the deepest depths when he tweeted: ‘Let’s not let him walk alone.’ It was a cheap and demeaning attempt to evoke the tradition of a great football club in the service of one who had been found guilty by the FA of a serious offence.

For Liverpool are certainly a great club; indeed, they are an institution created by remarkable men and sustained by extraordinary supporters.
In the past, and most particularly in the wake of the Hillsborough tragedy, Dalglish has shown an impeccable awareness of the dignity and stature of the institution.

All of which makes his current conduct more difficult to explain. His close friends — golfing partners, for the most part — speak of his warmth and ready wit.

Yet publicly, the ready wit too often congeals into feeble wisecrack. Thus, when asked about a poor tackle by a Newcastle player on Friday evening, he responded with: ‘I didn’t see it. If it was a bad one, I’m sure the FA will take appropriate action.’

Again, the snide smear when a little humility would have been in order. And it is all a great pity because the man has so much to offer. He was a wondrous player, one of the best our game has seen, and his managerial record is resoundingly impressive.

He could yet offer his game a singular example by studying the contents of the commission’s findings and accepting them without recourse to smart jibes or self-serving objections.

I hope that is his chosen course, and I hope that somebody of consequence at Liverpool advises him to take that course. For flattery is a dangerous diet; high time that Kenny Dalglish was told a home truth.
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Mail.
 
Skywarden said:
Classy Liverpool fans in the comments - as always.
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"Trecker, you sir, are a dumb ****! When trecker's accomplishments out reach KK's then and only then can this fat **** demand KK to apologize. What a real douchebag. It is this type of mentality from the media that really puts a stain on people of all breeds. KK's accomplishments will always be greater then the mess that trecker is trying to turn this crap into."

"I agree...a slap on the wrist for both would have been a fair result...but as you can see, there is a lot of people that don't understand the differences in culture, and blindly believe that this panel got it right.

As an anecdotal fact...Uruguay had black players in its National Team as early as 1916....guess when a black player represented England for the first time? ....1980. Enough said."

Flawless.
 
Skywarden said:
Classy Liverpool fans in the comments - as always.
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They are still bleating on asking why Evra isn't being punished for using the word sudaca (um, because the report states that he didn't say it...or that even if he had said South American, Suarez said that it wasn't offensive), or why he isn't punished for threatening to punch Suarez??

Their continued refusal to accept the evidence would be laughable were it not such a serious issue.
 
A slap on the wrist for both?? :lol:

Since when is being on the receiving end of racial abuse an offence?
 
decorativeed said:
Liverpool should just accept the charge and see if they can get Emile Heskey back on loan for the rest of the season to cover Suarez's ban: Emile Heskey: MORE effective for LFC than Luis Suarez, and here's the proof... | Liverpool-Kop.com | Liverpool FC News, features, statistics and analysis
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Author of that article has also posted about the report itself:

FA REPORT: How Dalglish, Comolli + Kuyt CONTRADICTED Suarez's story... | Liverpool-Kop.com | Liverpool FC News, features, statistics and analysis

He was also the author of other objective articles about the case and if I remember right got abuse for it:

Debunking LFC myths: No 11 – Patrice Evra has a history of race complaints | Liverpool-Kop.com | Liverpool FC News, features, statistics and analysis

SUAREZ: Why it's Liverpool FC's fault if people label him 'RACIST'... | Liverpool-Kop.com | Liverpool FC News, features, statistics and analysis
 
It's the slow regression of arguments that's so funny. They have never had one consistent argument to put forward, it's been a constant changing set of rules for every time something has been disproved. There's absolutely no attempt to look at it objectively. It's "we're right, end of, lets look exclusively at things that might seem a bit like we're right." It's almost a God of Gaps scenario. With added conspiracy logic.

- First of all he definitely said nothing. No mention of colour at all. Evra's a lying twat. And he's done it before.

Then it emerged he's admitted saying it. And Evra was never found to have done anything like this before.

- Ok, erm, well he still probably did. Cos he's a cnut. And anyway, Suarez said negrito. Lets have a long and protracted discussion on the nuances of that word. It's really at the crux of everything.

Then it emerged he'd never said that at all.

- Well, obviously, that's ...erm...well it's not important. Negro's pretty much exactly the same anyway. And Evra said sudaca, which is much worse when said in Spanish.

Then it emerged Evra had never said that. And Suarez himself had put forward the accusation in English.

- Well, clearly "South American" is still just as offensive. And he's admitted saying it.

Then it emerged he'd denied saying it.

- Well he's lying. And anyway, Kuyt heard him say he was booked for being black. So that's definitely true. Kuyt would never mishear or misunderstand anything. It's one mans word against another's.

Then it emerged that Kuyt had misheard AND misunderstood what Suarez had told him he'd said IN DUTCH!...As had Comoli. Both of whom had coincidentally understood it as virtually identical to what Evra was accusing.

- Well lets ignore that. It's still one mans word against anothers. Our own sides words don't count. And anyway Comolli can't speak French properly. Despite being french.

Then it emerged that there was video evidence corroborating Evra's consistent version of the story, and not Suarez's, which changed later to fit it.

- ONE MAN'S WORD AGAINST ANOTHER, LALALALALALALALA.....Anyway, the video evidence we haven't seen doesn't show anything. So there's no reasonable doubt.

Then they finally cottoned on that this wasn't a criminal trial, it was a civil trial, and conducted in exactly the same manner as all civil trials.

- Well we should take it to a criminal court. We'll completely destroy them. There's no evidence, it's one mans word against another.

Some begin to cotton on that Suarez's testimony was full of holes, inconsistencies and changed a couple of times, whilst Evra's was consistent.

- Well that's obviously only because Evra is a multi-linguist who had time to prepare whilst Suarez can barely speak the language.

Then it emerged he'd conducted his testimony in Spanish, and had been given TWO interpreters.

- Yeah, well obviously he was just nervous at being accused of something he never did. If he was guilty, he'd have been much better at lying.

I've no idea what they're arguing now, but it's so far removed from what they were originally arguing as to make no difference. It's still one man's word against anothers too, despite it being detailed as one mans word against several others, including - initially - his own team-mates and manager, the video evidence that hasn't been released to the public, and a panel of linguistic experts.

Blind loyalty. It does silly things.

Anyway, At least they've managed to bring a few people together over the Xmas period. Sunderland & Newcastle fans for example, united in their hilarity over their stubborn reaction to all this.

FA v Suarez full results of Case published - Page 36 - RTG Sunderland Message Boards

The Liverpool Thread (Parky 5 Dalglish 4) - Suarez (og)
 
In the report, Suarez claimed: "I would refer to Glen Johnson as 'negro' in the same way that I might refer to Dirk Kuyt as 'Blondie' - because he has blond hair, or Andy Carroll as 'Grandote' - 'Big Man' - because he is very tall.

"Where I come from it is normal to refer to people in this way by reference to what they look like. There is no aggression in referring to somebody in this way and there is certainly no racial connotation."
 
Skholesy said:
Fair enough - you've got your principles and will stand up to it, i admire and respect that. I'm putting myself in Kuyt's shoes though, and if my priorities were my own family's livelihood and my own career, i would just wear the bloody shirt - its not as if i was going on a press conference to defend suarez's character whilst knowing what actually went on. I'd just wear that shirt as it meant nothing to me....you might call it gutless on my part, but hey-ho, what i'm saying that it's hard to predict what people should do when everyone has their own personal concerns.

Regardless, my point is that the culprit here is Suarez, so i think people should go easy on Kuyt and not associate him directly with the true crime of the matter.
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Mate, that wasn't a pop at you, I do see where you're coming from...I just don't agree with it! Doesn't make your opinion wrong and mine right, though. In essence, the main thing is that Suarez is the real guilty culprit here
 
Redlambs said:
I can't wait for the next installment of the King Kenny's Klan show!
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...Otherwise known as Krusty the Clown featuring Sideshow Suarez.
 
Are Liverpool officially appealing or are they still deciding what to do?

Hope they continue to further embarrass themselves. What a bunch of fecktards.
 
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