Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

It was always going to be like that though, rightly or wrongly - probably wrongly, because of the two clubs - and players -involved.

One of the most disliked players in the Man Utd team (for L'pool fans) and a Liverpool player who I'm sure most Utd fans didn't particularly warm to. Soon as the story broke, fans were going to nail their colours to the mast straight away, regardless of evidence, logic, ethics etc.

There couldn't have been two worse clubs to have been involved in this.
 
It was always going to be like that though, rightly or wrongly - probably wrongly, because of the two clubs - and players -involved.

One of the most disliked players in the Man Utd team (for L'pool fans) and a Liverpool player who I'm sure most Utd fans didn't particularly warm to. Soon as the story broke, fans were going to nail their colours to the mast straight away, regardless of evidence, logic, ethics etc.

There couldn't have been two worse clubs to have been involved in this.

The problem was when someone was found guilty of racist abuse you would hope people would take that logic into account.

It's not the fans who are the issue here. Liverpool fans, football fans will follow their club no matter. The issue is the management at Liverpool who handled this completely badly right from the start.
 
It was always going to be like that though, rightly or wrongly - probably wrongly, because of the two clubs - and players -involved.

One of the most disliked players in the Man Utd team (for L'pool fans) and a Liverpool player who I'm sure most Utd fans didn't particularly warm to. Soon as the story broke, fans were going to nail their colours to the mast straight away, regardless of evidence, logic, ethics etc.

There couldn't have been two worse clubs to have been involved in this.

If it was "always going to be like that" though, then it shows their's something horribly wrong with how people support their football teams.

and look at the Chelsea fans. They've behaved no better over the Anton/Terry affair. Their club has behaved better and not encouraged them, but it hasn't stopped large numbers of their fans from making cretins of themselves.

It is not impossible for a decent person to behave better than this. As mentioned, I know a few die hard Liverpool fans and none of them were too busy inciting racial hatred or abusing Stan Collymoor on twitter to see the real issue. Other people just need to have a look at theselves and grow the feck up.
 
LUIS SUAREZ OR THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE COLONIZER
Luis Suárez or the Psychology of the Colonizer | Bagsy Not In - The Football Blog

0rB6H.jpg

Credit to Olly for this wonderful reconstruction



Let me not,

Since I have my dukedom got,

And pardon’d the deceiver, dwell

In this bare island by your spell

The Tempest, William Shakespeare



The debacle between Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra is one which goes way past football and allows us to enter the vicissitudes of primitive human behaviour. Few cases could better illustrate the statement of French writer Albert Camus, recipient of the 1957 Nobel Prize in Literature, when he said « All I know most certainly about morality and obligations, I owe to football ». As the Uruguayan refused to admit he called Patrice Evra a negro before withdrawing his statement and arguing that such an expression is common in the Spanish language (making things even worse), Suarez decided he would end the polemic generated by his own self-righteous behaviour by proving even more reckless and amazingly refusing to shake Patrice Evra’s hand on Sunday, a gesture which may in hindsight be regarded as the lowest ever point in the historic rivalry between Manchester and Liverpool, or the day when the encounter between the two most decorated clubs in England was instrumentalized and became the theater of the most primitive demonstration of what French ethnologist Octave Mannoni once defined as « colonizer psychology ».

It should firstly be pointed out that Luis Suarez barely celebrated his 25th birthday weeks ago, so that his actions should in the end merely be regarded as those of a little kid. However little kids sometimes display innately the instinctive behaviour showed by their parents, actually they sometimes do it even better than adults themselves, as kids are restricted to see what their parents have to offer and aren’t yet swayed upon by other environmental factors such as peer pressure. This piece does not attempt to kick a man when he is down, as Suarez knows fully he fragilized his own position at Liverpool FC more than anyone else’s on Sunday. But it is useful to see through his behaviour, just what his parents taught him. Those who called Suarez a racist after he handled a near-goal for Ghana in the 2010 World Cup (the free-kick leading to Adiyiah’s header and Suarez’s handball having never been a foul in the first place) are about as wrong as those who do NOT call him, or at least his actions, racist in the Evra case these days.

In the end, understanding this paraplaxis (known as a physical Freudian slip) also explains the cheek behind the Uruguayan national football team nicknaming itself Charrúas after the indigenous tribe which once populated the region before the Spaniards came in and submitted them to slavery and ultimately extinction. How these very same Spaniards (or rather their distant offspring, but it should come clear by the end of this piece that it makes little difference) dared naming themselves after natives they genocided stems roughly from the same behaviour pattern as Luis Suarez deciding he should be the one assessing whether or not to shake Patrice Evra’s hand, rather than the opposite.

Octave Mannoni opposed in his 1950 book The Psychology of Colonization the Western European inferiority complex, named after Prospero in Shakespeare’s play The Tempest, to a dependence complex of the Madagascar native tribes, named after Caliban (Prospero’s slave in that play). Written in a period (the 1950s) of increasingly positive feelings for Communism, seen as having freed Europe from Nazism in the Second World war, the book argues that the Marxist interpretation of colonialization whereby Western Europe invaded the rest of the world purely for the sake of profit and hoarding natural resources is way too simplistic. Indeed, it is Western Europe’s inferiority complex, with European types feeling the insatiable need to « supersede their father » (a Freudian lexicon familiar to Mannoni, initially a psychoanalyst) which explains why Europeans jumped on ships and sailed away, as far as they could, so that they could « kill their father » there and impose their superiority.

On the other hand, natives in these colonies (initially Madagascar, Mannoni’s case study, but later a widespread assessment of most colonies) do not feel the need to supersede their father because they live in peace with their parents, for it is conversely the memory of their dead ancestors that they cherish and which they try to reminisce and adjust their deeds to.

It is not therefore not to make a profit but to retreat forwards (what the Germans call « Flucht nach vorn » and the French « fuite en avant ») that Western Europeans seek domination abroad through colonization. Colonized tribes on the other hand have, according to Mannoni, a proclivity to become dependent simply because of the absence of this inferiority complex towards a Father figure, which makes them unlikely to seek superiority towards one’s fellow in the sequel. This argument got Mannoni under intense fire by some of his fellow anti-colonialization militants such as Aimé Césaire.

By reacting angrily to Suarez’s denial to shake his hand, Patrice Evra said no to this secular dependence of the Black man to the colonizer, a submission which led 12 millions Africans to be shipped out of their continent in the 18th century in the slave trade, hundreds of thousands of which from the infamous House of Slaves built 3 kilometers off the coast of Senegal’s capital Dakar, Evra’s native city. By grabbing Suarez’s hand, a gesture rightly criticized afterwards, he said he would not abide to the decision of the Uruguayan, and that it should rather be the other way round.

By denying to shake his hand, Suarez put himself above Patrice Evra in the moral conflict that had brought both men at odds. Despite reassuring his club before the game that he would proceed to shake hands, he did not resist his genetic predisposition to impose domination, brought about by a Prospero complex which led his ancestors to colonize Uruguay in 1516. Patrice Evra’s most gentlemanly reaction should have been not to acknowledge Suarez’s stupidity and move on, rather than catch his hand angrily. But the Manchester United captain could not possibly fall a victim to the same dependency complex that enslaved so many millions.

The reaction by Liverpool FC in the aftermath of the game also displayed typical traits of an inferiority complex. Repeatedly attempting to put themselves down as the victim, most in and out the club refused to condemn Suarez’s move in the immediate aftermath to the game. Without dwelling on the history of the city of Liverpool, it is well known that colonization is a familiar matter to any Irishman crossing the Irish Sea to settle in England in the wake of the Great Famine. And that the primitive reactions observed on these occasions are vastly influenced by the same Prospero complex as the one leading Suarez to act the way he did.

It finally took the intervention of Liverpool’s American owners, subscribing to an entirely different system of values than this inferiority/dependence complex, to at last bring an end to a masquerade that lasted a few seconds but whose consequences shall persist forever in the mind of both protagonists, their teams and the millions of fans who saw it live. The day when Liverpool tried to colonize Manchester United – and failed miserably.

My take
 

Very interesting - and thanks for posting it - but, ultimately, I find it unconvincing...

The evidentiary foundations are insufficient for the size of the theoretical edifice you seek to construct. If it were phrased more as an interesting and revealing interpretation of certain aspects of the incident it would be more winning IMO.
 
Very interesting - and thanks for posting it - but, ultimately, I find it unconvincing...

The evidentiary foundations are insufficient for the size of the theoretical edifice you seek to construct. If it were phrased more as an interesting and revealing interpretation of certain aspects of the incident it would be more winning IMO.

Cheers for the feedback, what do you reckon I dont emphasize enough on?

I'll get that posted on RAWK tomorrow btw
 
I'm curious why you feel it is that Uruguayans represent the "Western European colonizer mentality", but an Anglo-American such as John W. Henry does not. Americans certainly have our own history of colonization and subjugation of the native people, and like Uruguay's Charrúas, our sports teams are rife with names referring to those people, such as the Washington Redskins, the Kansas City Chiefs, the Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves...
 
That was RAWK-like nonsense. Western Europeans have an inferiority complex and, therefore, felt the need to conquer indigenous people (who, btw, represent their fathers because i read a cool book on Freud)?

There are leaps of logic and there are giant leaps of faith. And then there's Nani Nana's Easyjet Flight 606 to Cloud Cuckoo Land. Passengers are reminded to store any hand luggage in the compartment above them or under the seat in front of them.
 
Nice read

Silly me thought that it was all a matter of Suarez being a spoiled cnut who has been the main man of his team (whether its Ajax or Liverpool) for far too long. Regarding Liverpool I thought that after spending 100m to stock their team with more average players, they simply had to defend one of the few stars capable of transforming an average and overrated side into something better. I never thought that there was so much history a missed handshake.
 
It was always going to be like that though, rightly or wrongly - probably wrongly, because of the two clubs - and players -involved.

One of the most disliked players in the Man Utd team (for L'pool fans) and a Liverpool player who I'm sure most Utd fans didn't particularly warm to. Soon as the story broke, fans were going to nail their colours to the mast straight away, regardless of evidence, logic, ethics etc.

There couldn't have been two worse clubs to have been involved in this.

Rubbish. It was only this way because of Liverpool FC's pathetic reaction to it. They're the only ones who showed a complete lack of 'ethics'.
 
How exactly did Comolli and Kuyt's accounts change?
Suarez told Cormolli and Kuyt about the incident (in different languages) after the game. They both reported what he said to the ref. Suarez changed his story (relating to him saying "Because you are Black") and claimed that both Cormolli and Kuyt must have misunderstood him. Odd that they both came up with the same phrase in different languages and in both cases this was a mistake of some sort. When subsequently asked about what they were told both said that they were sure they must have misheard.

Obvious bullshit and a fatal wound to Suarez's case IMO. Suarez made fools of them and they were stupid enough to go along.
 
I still think Evra deserves sincere apologies from Suarez and Liverpool FC who attacked his character in the infamous statement.

I am not sure if Evra would have gone through the same deal if he were white. Probably not. I can accept that Suarez is a moron who lack any proper education. I've seen what uneducated people do. However, I will never forgot how LFC treated Evra - the statement, the T shirts, etc. If I were Evra, I'd sue LFC.
 
I still think Evra deserves sincere apologies from Suarez and Liverpool FC who attacked his character in the infamous statement.

I am not sure if Evra would have gone through the same deal if he were white. Probably not. I can accept that Suarez is a moron who lack any proper education. I've seen what uneducated people do. However, I will never forgot how LFC treated Evra - the statement, the T shirts, etc. If I were Evra, I'd sue LFC.

The sad part is that Evra hasn't got his due for taking racism on. Many players would probably let these kind of things go because of the attention it drawns in your direction. But he was brave enough to take a stand and not budge. For me, he's done a great service to the game by raising this issue and ensuring that a precedent in terms of the punishment has been set. But sadly, he's not getting his due regarding this. Instead people are focusing on him also playing a part in this mess, which is ridiculous. All evra did was wind up a guy who racially abused him, not to mention behaved like a prick during the match (including trying to hit the ball at evra and missing like a loon).
 
Why do the scousers hate Evra anyway? They all say they hated him before the Suarez incident but where does it come from? What has he done to offend them so much.

I know he kept shouting '19' at them at Anfield when he was taking throw ins, but come on, does a bit of bantz warrant all this hatred? He may be a WUM on the pitch but he's always come across as a likeable chap off it and his interviews are always very entertaining.

Just baffled, that's all.
 
How exactly did Comolli and Kuyt's accounts change?

They spoke to Suarez after the match, Comolli in Spanish, Kuyt in Dutch. Both understood him to have said a phrase which translates in both languages as 'because you're black.' This is what they initially reported when asked to provide their story.

The phrase in question corroborated the most damning part of Evra's evidence and also killed the conciliatory defence which Suarez would later rely on so, presumably under instruction from LFC's lawyer, they changed their account to say they had both misunderstood Suarez, Comolli in Spanish and Kuyt in his native tongue Dutch.

Strange that Evra, Comolli and Kuyt all misunderstood Suarez to have said 'because you're black' from three separate conversations, including one in Dutch. LFC were between a rock and hard place after that. The phrase 'Because you're black' can't be palmed away as non-racist, so they had to conduct this embarrassing 'misunderstanding' u-turn and hope for the best. Thankfully the panel weren't born yesterday.
 
The sad part is that Evra hasn't got his due for taking racism on. Many players would probably let these kind of things go because of the attention it drawns in your direction. But he was brave enough to take a stand and not budge. For me, he's done a great service to the game by raising this issue and ensuring that a precedent in terms of the punishment has been set. But sadly, he's not getting his due regarding this. Instead people are focusing on him also playing a part in this mess, which is ridiculous. All evra did was wind up a guy who racially abused him, not to mention behaved like a prick during the match (including trying to hit the ball at evra and missing like a loon).

Do you think? It seems to me he is getting a lot of credit. Maybe not for the celebrations after the Liverpool game, but I detect admiration for what he has done - in the broadsheets, among other players on Twitter, among neutral football fans I speak to....
 
Why do the scousers hate Evra anyway? They all say they hated him before the Suarez incident but where does it come from? What has he done to offend them so much.

I know he kept shouting '19' at them at Anfield when he was taking throw ins, but come on, does a bit of bantz warrant all this hatred? He may be a WUM on the pitch but he's always come across as a likeable chap off it and his interviews are always very entertaining.

Just baffled, that's all.

You answered your own question. Because he presents himself as a United fan as well as a player. In the example you gave, in the celebrations after the game, in his talk about taking on United's history. If you hate United you have to hate Evra because he has immersed himself in the club so completely. Same reason we all love him.
 
Why do the scousers hate Evra anyway? They all say they hated him before the Suarez incident but where does it come from? What has he done to offend them so much.

I know he kept shouting '19' at them at Anfield when he was taking throw ins, but come on, does a bit of bantz warrant all this hatred? He may be a WUM on the pitch but he's always come across as a likeable chap off it and his interviews are always very entertaining.

Just baffled, that's all.

For their story to be accurate, he must have invented several instances of racial abuse in order to get their player banned.
 
Do you think? It seems to me he is getting a lot of credit. Maybe not for the celebrations after the Liverpool game, but I detect admiration for what he has done - in the broadsheets, among other players on Twitter, among neutral football fans I speak to....

To be fair I'm not in the best position to judge given this issue gets no coverage from the media in my country and I'm not really into Twitter. But the general feeling I get from the few websites I check and other random sources is that evra isn't getting much praise. But if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be in this case. Maybe its the overwhelming drivel spouted by Liverpool fans that's making it seem so.

And Steve Mcmahon as an expert on the Asia broadcast of the premier league referred to suarez's original action as 'alleged racial abuse' with a repeated emphasis on the word alleged, which I found incredible.
 
My impression is it is there, in the background. People arent gushing about it, he isnt being invited to give the keynote speech at racial equality seminars or anything. People arent going on about it because they are too busy talking about what a fecknuts Suarez is. So you have a point there. But he has been getting some quiet credit I reckon.
 
Inferiority complex? I always thought they suffered from delusions of adequacy.
 
Nacional of Montevideo will be holding a vigil in show of support for Suarez before tonight's Copa Lib game against Libertad.

Sigh.
 
Nacional of Montevideo will be holding a vigil in show of support for Suarez before tonight's Copa Lib game against Libertad.

I didn't realise that Suarez was facing the death penalty...
 
Why do the scousers hate Evra anyway? They all say they hated him before the Suarez incident but where does it come from? What has he done to offend them so much.

I know he kept shouting '19' at them at Anfield when he was taking throw ins, but come on, does a bit of bantz warrant all this hatred? He may be a WUM on the pitch but he's always come across as a likeable chap off it and his interviews are always very entertaining.

Just baffled, that's all.

I love this man.

Any evidence of that?