Yeah okay, moving from Le Havre to United and moving from United to Juventus is the same?
Paul Pogba
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Yeah okay, moving from Le Havre to United and moving from United to Juventus is the same?
Manchester United face up to losing Paul Pogba | Mail Online
Manchester United's attempts to keep up and coming star Paul Pogba at Old Trafford have hit crisis point.
United have been talking for weeks with representatives of the 18-year-old French midfielder about a new contract.
But Pogba’s agent admitted that the teenager’s future at United was now 'precarious' after suggestions he was told to train alone the day after being left out of the squad for the Ajax Europa League games last week.
Agent Mino Raiola and United officials refused to confirm or deny that Pogba had been excluded from first team training last Friday.
However, Raiola – who also represents Manchester City striker Mario Balotelli - said last night: “It is a precarious situation. It is difficult at the moment.
'Manchester United want him. It is up to the boy to make some decisions. It is never nice for the player not to be in the squad. It is the same for any player, including Balotelli. We must keep our minds cool and heads cool. Some things are good. Some things are not good.'
Italian club Juventus are among a clutch of clubs waiting to pounce if Pogba decides that his future lies away from United. For United manager Sir Alex Ferguson., losing Pogba would be a blow coming so soon after another young starlet, Ravel Morrison, left Old Trafford for West Ham.
'We know there are some clubs interested in him,' Raiola added. 'We must finish first with Manchester and after that we will see other options, if they are there.
'We must see. The club give the indication that they want to keep him. We are talking contract terms. There is willingness from both parties at the moment.'
Pogba has less than 18 months left on his contract at United. He has played once in the Barclays Premier League for the club. Asked if there was uncertainty about Pogba’s future, Raiola was cryptic.
He said: 'Not from our side
Manchester United's attempts to keep up and coming star Paul Pogba at Old Trafford have hit crisis point.
United have been talking for weeks with representatives of the 18-year-old French midfielder about a new contract.
But Pogba’s agent admitted that the teenager’s future at United was now 'precarious' after suggestions he was told to train alone the day after being left out of the squad for the Ajax Europa League games last week.
Agent Mino Raiola and United officials refused to confirm or deny that Pogba had been excluded from first team training last Friday.
However, Raiola – who also represents Manchester City striker Mario Balotelli - said last night: “It is a precarious situation. It is difficult at the moment.
'Manchester United want him. It is up to the boy to make some decisions. It is never nice for the player not to be in the squad. It is the same for any player, including Balotelli. We must keep our minds cool and heads cool. Some things are good. Some things are not good.'
Italian club Juventus are among a clutch of clubs waiting to pounce if Pogba decides that his future lies away from United. For United manager Sir Alex Ferguson., losing Pogba would be a blow coming so soon after another young starlet, Ravel Morrison, left Old Trafford for West Ham.
'We know there are some clubs interested in him,' Raiola added. 'We must finish first with Manchester and after that we will see other options, if they are there.
'We must see. The club give the indication that they want to keep him. We are talking contract terms. There is willingness from both parties at the moment.'
Pogba has less than 18 months left on his contract at United. He has played once in the Barclays Premier League for the club. Asked if there was uncertainty about Pogba’s future, Raiola was cryptic.
He said: 'Not from our side
Why would the club change a policy which have been working for years just because of one player? Unless you're including Morrison, but in the end it was United who didn't want to extend, so that wouldn't make any sense.
Why would Pogba act any different if there had been another year on his contract? If he truly just wants to get more money he'd just reject United's offers and in the end we'd be in the same situation as we're in now.
I'm no fan of the Glazers, but I don't really believe this is their strategy as Makki suggests. Young players get an X year contract (usually only two or three years - three years in Pogba's case) - why would you renew that before it's coming towards the end unless the status of the player has changed? United opened talks with Pogba towards the end of last year according to reports which leaves plenty of time, if the player wants to stay.
I'm thinking SAF is betting on this. He doesn't have to pander to kid, especially one with long time left. He can get the kid some matches later. Pogba still has lots to prove.
Arguably he should find it harder to leave Le Havre, as that was home.
Yep. We as United fans find it odd that he wants to leave. But Pogba isn't a United fan. He hasn't been at the club since the age of 12 like Welbeck and Cleverley. Juventus despite their recent scandals are a great name in European football historically speaking. And if they are paying him more money it only makes his choice easier.
Juve are a giant. Folks on here readily dismiss huge instsitutions, but Juve is not a step down in lots of respects and if he is getting promised more money and to be closer to the first team he is right to consider it. What if he bottles it in our first team or we sign someone else that stands in his waythat will hinder his career in comparison to starting for Juve?
From our side we can't feck our structure for a kid who is totally unproven.
Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.
From our side we can't feck our structure for a kid who is totally unproven.
Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.
Should United Bite The Bullet And Pay Pogba?
Should United Bite The Bullet And Pay Pogba? | The Busby Way
Control is a funny thing.
One does not realise how little he has of it until it’s all gone. As supporters we like to imagine we have some control over how things proceed at our beloved club. Most of this supposed authoritative primacy is imaginary and illusory. The level of controversy surrounding how much control the club has over its academy players has come under an incredible amount of scrutiny for a few players that have done largely nothing for Manchester United.
Ravel Morrison’s departure to West Ham has been well-documented and theorised about as much as the Kennedy Assassination. Either it was that Morrison was just too much trouble or that United did not handle his penchant for petty crime as well as they had attempted to manage his undoubted talent. Ultimately it is probably a mixture of the two but in the dogmatic world of sport journalism there is little room for nuance.
Analogies are important tools of understanding, but I find that unfortunately in the cases of Paul Pogba and Ezekiel Fryers, the Morrison analogy does not fit. The talk surrounding Morrison, while in part being about the wages he was supposedly demanding, was more related to his off field issues than to anything he did as a member of United’s youth and reserve teams. But with Pogba and Fryers, wages and ultimately the club’s control over their futures remain inextricably tied.
Unfortunately in the day and age wherein football clubs have become the playthings of zillionaires no club is immune to the money over everything mentality plaguing the sport. The wages a player receives trumps things we supporters glorify like loyalty and service. And no matter what influential figures like Sir Alex Ferguson say or do, there is little that can be done in the short term to help reverse this trend. United are certainly not saints in this respect paying out wages to players that lesser teams could never afford. And for every player United pilfer from financially weaker teams there will be another (or in this case, the same) player that will want to leave United for better wages and a better shot at the limelight.
Naturally, there are players that United has produced from its academy of late that have prioritised their love of the club over potential opportunities elsewhere. Tom Cleverley and Danny Welbeck being the most obvious of that ilk. But if one looks at it, their willingness to remain at the club is not all down to their ‘love of United.’ Both players were obviously promised key roles in the team this season and Welbeck’s ascendence to the second preferred option at forward behind Wayne Rooney proves as much. If Welbeck had been told that he would have a very hard time cracking the starting eleven this year, I think he may have looked at his other options. Welbeck is a Manchester boy, so whether or not I am right to assume that remains a question. Cleverley (a.k.a. Midfield Jesus, TM) was given the chance to be our key man in midfield and only a gruesome injury prevented him from making the position his own.
If the club is willing to offer the same opportunities to Pogba and Fryers next season then I can definitely see the pair deciding it would be in their best interests to stay at the club. While I ultimately think both would do well to go out on loan in the Premier League next season, each needs to be presented by the club a vision of their future being integral to the first team over the next few years.
Considering United’s well-documented lack of talent in the centre of the midfield, Pogba ought to be encouraged by the fact that there is a need for the qualities that the lad is supposed to have in spades. The club’s transfer policy in this area of the first team reflects a preference for using academy players which cost less than to spend on a in-his-prime world class player. The wages Pogba is seemingly demanding (around 35-45k a week) are dwarfed by what Wesley Sneijder was supposedly commanding last summer (250,00k a week). At this point, United need to commit to the player they went through a lot of wrangling to acquire in the first place. And if Pogba progresses and becomes the player many believe he can be, paying him 35k a week now will save the club money in the long run.
And regarding Fryers, it is merely speculation that he is seeking a pay rise. The player came out of nowhere to make an impact for the club in its brief run in the Carling Cup and definitely caught the eye. His barnstorming runs were the subject of much adulation from myself and many others. Unfortunately ‘Zeki’ is stuck behind club captain Patrice Evra and at least one da Silva twin for the starting berth at left back. A centre half by trade, Fryers would have an even more difficult time besting the likes of Jonny Evans, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones. The young Englishman’s future remains a mystery, but it is no longer a question that the boy has the talent necessary to make it at the club.
A step towards keeping the pair of promising youngsters would be to just pay the wages the two are seeking. In a world where the money dominates, United simply need to pay the cost to be the boss, or be left behind by the clubs that will.
Should United Bite The Bullet And Pay Pogba? | The Busby Way
Control is a funny thing.
One does not realise how little he has of it until it’s all gone. As supporters we like to imagine we have some control over how things proceed at our beloved club. Most of this supposed authoritative primacy is imaginary and illusory. The level of controversy surrounding how much control the club has over its academy players has come under an incredible amount of scrutiny for a few players that have done largely nothing for Manchester United.
Ravel Morrison’s departure to West Ham has been well-documented and theorised about as much as the Kennedy Assassination. Either it was that Morrison was just too much trouble or that United did not handle his penchant for petty crime as well as they had attempted to manage his undoubted talent. Ultimately it is probably a mixture of the two but in the dogmatic world of sport journalism there is little room for nuance.
Analogies are important tools of understanding, but I find that unfortunately in the cases of Paul Pogba and Ezekiel Fryers, the Morrison analogy does not fit. The talk surrounding Morrison, while in part being about the wages he was supposedly demanding, was more related to his off field issues than to anything he did as a member of United’s youth and reserve teams. But with Pogba and Fryers, wages and ultimately the club’s control over their futures remain inextricably tied.
Unfortunately in the day and age wherein football clubs have become the playthings of zillionaires no club is immune to the money over everything mentality plaguing the sport. The wages a player receives trumps things we supporters glorify like loyalty and service. And no matter what influential figures like Sir Alex Ferguson say or do, there is little that can be done in the short term to help reverse this trend. United are certainly not saints in this respect paying out wages to players that lesser teams could never afford. And for every player United pilfer from financially weaker teams there will be another (or in this case, the same) player that will want to leave United for better wages and a better shot at the limelight.
Naturally, there are players that United has produced from its academy of late that have prioritised their love of the club over potential opportunities elsewhere. Tom Cleverley and Danny Welbeck being the most obvious of that ilk. But if one looks at it, their willingness to remain at the club is not all down to their ‘love of United.’ Both players were obviously promised key roles in the team this season and Welbeck’s ascendence to the second preferred option at forward behind Wayne Rooney proves as much. If Welbeck had been told that he would have a very hard time cracking the starting eleven this year, I think he may have looked at his other options. Welbeck is a Manchester boy, so whether or not I am right to assume that remains a question. Cleverley (a.k.a. Midfield Jesus, TM) was given the chance to be our key man in midfield and only a gruesome injury prevented him from making the position his own.
If the club is willing to offer the same opportunities to Pogba and Fryers next season then I can definitely see the pair deciding it would be in their best interests to stay at the club. While I ultimately think both would do well to go out on loan in the Premier League next season, each needs to be presented by the club a vision of their future being integral to the first team over the next few years.
Considering United’s well-documented lack of talent in the centre of the midfield, Pogba ought to be encouraged by the fact that there is a need for the qualities that the lad is supposed to have in spades. The club’s transfer policy in this area of the first team reflects a preference for using academy players which cost less than to spend on a in-his-prime world class player. The wages Pogba is seemingly demanding (around 35-45k a week) are dwarfed by what Wesley Sneijder was supposedly commanding last summer (250,00k a week). At this point, United need to commit to the player they went through a lot of wrangling to acquire in the first place. And if Pogba progresses and becomes the player many believe he can be, paying him 35k a week now will save the club money in the long run.
And regarding Fryers, it is merely speculation that he is seeking a pay rise. The player came out of nowhere to make an impact for the club in its brief run in the Carling Cup and definitely caught the eye. His barnstorming runs were the subject of much adulation from myself and many others. Unfortunately ‘Zeki’ is stuck behind club captain Patrice Evra and at least one da Silva twin for the starting berth at left back. A centre half by trade, Fryers would have an even more difficult time besting the likes of Jonny Evans, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones. The young Englishman’s future remains a mystery, but it is no longer a question that the boy has the talent necessary to make it at the club.
A step towards keeping the pair of promising youngsters would be to just pay the wages the two are seeking. In a world where the money dominates, United simply need to pay the cost to be the boss, or be left behind by the clubs that will.
He's wrong about Fryers. There's still a very big question.
I am not that impressed by Fryers at all. If he becomes a first team regular here I will eat my own bollocks.
How can any of these kids be nailed on stars without proving themselves first?
Possebon and Gibson were majestic in the reserves.
Possebon and Gibson were majestic in the reserves.
Really? I thought that Possebon was rubbish from day one. Gibson was ordinary but had a cracking shot on him.
*these measures are against Man Utd first team standards.
Anytime I saw them they walked through games while being almost untouchable. They never got any speed above walking though, which was the problem in a way.
Exactly my thoughts. People are getting excited with no real reason. Yes, he's great for the reserves, and made a nice SHORT cameo. So did Ben Thornley.
Fergie has not been wrong too often about players who have left us.
The key factor is that a player 'wants' to play for us.
Not saying Pogba does not...he may well end up staying with us. And I dont blame him trying to get as best a deal as possible.
But if he does leave, then I will trust the manager's decision.
The key factor is that a player 'wants' to play for us.
Not saying Pogba does not...he may well end up staying with us. And I dont blame him trying to get as best a deal as possible.
But if he does leave, then I will trust the manager's decision.
Totally, for example O'Shea's loyalty and reliability were a huge part in the massive amount of games he played and trophies he won for us.
I admit that for a while I thought that Gibson could be the new Lampard
. Possebon though, whenever I saw him play he used to glide across the pitch with wonderful grace and then play an awful pass. I found him confusing. The only player that I have ever seen in the reserves that I thought was nailed on to make it at the top level was Rossi. I loved watching him play. I remember him scoring a hat trick against City reserves away, at that point he was averaging about a goal a game for our reserves. That was the team, I think, that won every reserve competition that they entered that year.
I have to say that I think that Pogba is one of the best players that I have seen in my time of watching the reserves. Though I agree with you that he isn't a Messi or a Rooney type and if he leaves then so be it.
I'm not saying Pogba is no good; he looks great, but the club is most important, and is well run, and the players that come through are the threads that bind the team. Kids with talent and character. If they don't buy into that and don't want in then maybe they are a bit thick and won't deliver what their footballing talent promises. You need more than football talent to be part of this squad.
The kids that don't make it here and are let go are eulogised by other clubs, not only for their ability but for their application and their character. It shouldn't be underestimated.
The kids that don't make it here and are let go are eulogised by other clubs, not only for their ability but for their application and their character. It shouldn't be underestimated.
Bags of potential, but if he's causing problems now what will he be like if he makes it and Barcelona and Real Madrid come sniffing? Fergie knows what hes doing, if they dont understand what Manchester United is all about then get rid, Id rather give a player who wants it a chance.
He doesnt get much credit on here, but Macheda had the same sort of hype at 18 as Pogba and all he's done is show commitment to the club, he might not make it but he's been determined to make it here.
He doesnt get much credit on here, but Macheda had the same sort of hype at 18 as Pogba and all he's done is show commitment to the club, he might not make it but he's been determined to make it here.
I think that we might be seeing an unfortunate watershed this season. The superstar youth team player. It looks like agents are working on these young stars like they used to only do with their established ones. They are simply worth a lot more money now and with the exposure the players get from the 24hr media they are becoming celebrities before they have achieved anything.
If this is a watershed then we are surely have to going to have to bend, at some point, to another unfortunate step in the evolution of the commercial game.
You're a wise man moses, too wise for here. Go on and prosper.
Absolutely.
The tweets of Pogba's agent saying money will be the deciding factor are more than a little sad to see.
Is it wrong to wish physical anguish, prefereably of the genital variety on this Raiola character?
Would love to see the kid stay though if he already thinks he's the business, and shouldn't follow the same path as the like as giggs, becks, scholes>>>well feck him. Go play in italy
excellent post.
with all due respect to many of our supporters who watch these young players in even reserve and youth matches, SAF and the coaches watch them every day.
Lets stay calm and hope for the best.
Adding to the theme in your post I also wonder if when we look at the young players who have left Utd for other clubs before they really established themselves with us have actually gone on to be big name players?
Im sure there are some but right now i cant think of many. Maybe Pique?. Who else?
Im sure there are some but right now i cant think of many. Maybe Pique?. Who else?
Rossi.
To be fair, if we let this kid go for the sake of 20k a week, we could end up having to splash 30m on a CM and 200k a week.
Theres hype surrounding him for very good reason. He has serious potential. Fergie has said this, and did say at start of season he needs to start playing Pogba or he will leave. He hasn't played him. Scholes coming back out of retirement also sent him back the pecking order.
Theres hype surrounding him for very good reason. He has serious potential. Fergie has said this, and did say at start of season he needs to start playing Pogba or he will leave. He hasn't played him. Scholes coming back out of retirement also sent him back the pecking order.
Was SAF telling lies when he said United had an option of keeping him an extra year?
No one really knows? He said at that time that despite that he wanted Pogba to sign a new contract, the media kind of suggested that such an option was unenforceable but that side of things has gone quiet.
This was exactly what I was thinking. In the long run, paying him now MIGHT pay off because he has shown his potential and he can definitely play. So if we ease him, I think he should be fine.
I think we should do what we can to keep him. Pogba may not be a United fan, and is therefore more open to leaving the club for more money, even though personally I think there's no better place for a young player to continue developing his talent than at OT. We cannot assume every youth player will patiently wait for playing opportunities.
If we think he's going to make it at least as a useful squad player within the next 2-3 years, then 30-40k a week is not too much to pay. We shouldn't worry too much about how other youth players may try to pull the same stunt, because not all have the same kind of potential Pogba has. For eg, if Fryers demands the same, he will probably be sold, and we won't feel that same kind of loss.
We should also take into consideration that the wage levels have moved greatly over the past couple of years. How much is Ashley Young getting paid again?
If we think he's going to make it at least as a useful squad player within the next 2-3 years, then 30-40k a week is not too much to pay. We shouldn't worry too much about how other youth players may try to pull the same stunt, because not all have the same kind of potential Pogba has. For eg, if Fryers demands the same, he will probably be sold, and we won't feel that same kind of loss.
We should also take into consideration that the wage levels have moved greatly over the past couple of years. How much is Ashley Young getting paid again?
£30k/week (£1.5M/year) for a player who won't be playing first team football for an absolute minimum of two years is absurd IMO.
And how can anyone possibly know what Young's on?
Or he might not be as good as we think and we set a precedent for every young player with half a chance who walks through our doors.
Yep. I mentioned this before but De Gea's rumoured to be on £40k/week and he had won the Europa League, Super Cup and U-21 European Championship.
Smalling was rumoured to be on £25k when he first signed with us (and had his wages doubled to £50k after a great season) and Macheda was probably on a similar wage a year ago, maybe slightly less.
Nobody has any idea what Young is on but you can't possibly compare an 18 year old who has had 4 sub appearances for us to a 26 year old with over 300 career appearances under his belt and has played for his country 18 times so far.
What I'm saying is that we should pay if we believe him to be that good. If he turns out to be less than that, then that could well be the last contract he gets from us anyway. Then he can move on to Juventus or whatever club still interested, maybe 2-3 years from now. There's no point pointing out what Macheda or Smalling is making, everyone is different.
When Young was signed, reports said he was getting something like 130k a week (possibly part of it as added incentive as he was almost out of contract at Villa). Does he deserve to be paid more than Nani or Valencia? I don't know, that is for the management to decide. Various factors determine a player's salary. The club has an opinion, and so does the player, and I'd like to see them reach an agreement because Pogba has potential to be really good. I'm not fussed about us "over-paying" 10k a week or so for the next 2 or 3 yrs, just so that we can find out for sure if he is really all that, rather than letting him go now and setting up a "Pogba watch" thread in hope that he fails.
I'm not eating anyone's bollocks, but I agree entirely - he's decent, nothing more. Put him alongside Cathcart, Simpson et al., because I've seen nothing so far to suggest he could ever be good enough to be a regular for Utd.
I don't think he asked you to.
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