even if Pogba signs and Scholes returns for another season, I still see us needing to get a top quality midfielder in there if we are serious about Europe.
Paul Pogba
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even if Pogba signs and Scholes returns for another season, I still see us needing to get a top quality midfielder in there if we are serious about Europe.
Yeah I think so, to a decent Prem side like Cleverly and Welbeck. Then the season after he might have a role in the first team.
I disagree, I think we could do with a diamond in the rough more than a pre-made player, like Christian Eriksen or Eden Hazard. I'd prefer Eriksen over Hazard, Hazard's constant talking in the media to try and get a transfer to any Premier League club worries me for when Real or Barca inevitably come knocking for him.
For me, Carrick and Cleverley should be starting together next season in Europe and the tougher league games as a midfield two with someone ahead of them like Hazard of course. I actually wouldn't mind Rooney in that position though with Welbeck or Hernandez. The inner muppet tells me we could do with signing Llorente to play with that kind of formation
If Hazard is constantly talking to the media, his chances of joining us are close to nil......
No I think we need to sign a midfielder, it's been blatant for the past few years. Carrick will be our only top quality CM capable of playing a lot of games, because although Giggs is playing well, he's starting less and less which is a trend you'd expect to continue next season when he's 39. Cant see Scholes signing, or Fletch returning the same player, would be a miracle if he does.
So that leaves Cleverly and Anderson who are both largely unproven, Anderson seems ridiculously inconsistent, although I believe he'll mature into a great player in a few years, and Cleverly only played around ten games which isn't enough to base a midfield around. Clev's been completely over hyped as well I think, some of the praise he's been getting isn't justified yet in my view. He looks a decent player going forward when the teams in possession, but not much more at this stage. Obviously he'll improve but I'd pick Anderson ahead of him right now.
A midfield of Carrick and Cleverly/Anderson, with Giggs, Pogba and possibly Fletcher supporting isn't good enough for United really. The potential's there but it will take a few more years before the young ones reach their peak. In a situation where Carrick got injured we'd be pretty screwed as well.
He's been trying to manufacture a move to the PL all season, he name dropped Spurs and then Arsenal about three days after Spurs in interviews.
I do see your whole point. But when Fergie left out Carrick and started with Ando and Cleverley together in the centre of the park for the first 5 or 6 games, we looked pretty good. I would love to see that combination again on whether that's just a flash in a pan
Yeah I thought that might be mentioned, but those games shouldn't be seen as proving much about the partnership because the entire team was on absolute fire during those games, especially Spurs, Arsenal and Bolton (where Clev got injured). Young, Rooney and Nani were all extremely good which made the game easy for our central midfield, as we dominated possession and our whole attack was fluid and quick paced. Obviously you can only play against whats in front of you, but I think Cleverly and Anderson would have had more trouble against better sides, if you remember Spurs and Arsenal were without their key players and are both completely different sides now. Also, when we played Chelsea in the following week Anderson looked out his depth and was subbed off, despite him out performing Cleverly in the games previously.
Basically I'm saying they were easy games for Anderson and Clev to play in, so they werent really tested. Although they played well I'd be wary starting them both against a good side because there's no defensive stability there.
I'd say with Anderson and Cleverley we played the best football we've played in the last few years at least. If Pogba signs, Scholes stays and we keep Anderson and/or Fletcher then I don't think we'll sign a midfielder.
We played great football with Anderson and Cleverley, but we were way too open at the back. Luckily, Spurs were still feeling their way into the season and didn't have Parker and Adebayor yet, Arsenal were in disarray and so were Bolton. We then got massively lucky against Chelsea, who could easily have gotten a result at OT had they taken their chances.
I'm not saying it's all about the opposition, we've done very well ourselves in those matches, but I don't see that partnership as something we can base our team upon. We need another player who can do Carrick's role in midfield and provide cover for the defence. That's absolutely vital - as is his fitness until the end of the season.
I'm not saying it's all about the opposition, we've done very well ourselves in those matches, but I don't see that partnership as something we can base our team upon. We need another player who can do Carrick's role in midfield and provide cover for the defence. That's absolutely vital - as is his fitness until the end of the season.
Spurs didn't play Modric either.
The problem is that I think Pogba will become this player that sits in front of the defence. If he signs up then I just can't see us signig yet another. You can also bet your life that we won't turn our back on Fletcher if there is any chance of him coming back. The only chance, for me, is if another experienced midfielder becomes available.
No way. Pogba is a better offensive midfielder then defensive. Sitting in front of the defense would be a complete waste of his talent. There are so many things that we could do depending on Scholes, Pogba etc.
Black Zidane.. I'm putting my word on it!!
At the moment, yes. But I see him fulfillin the role of the current Scholes. Sitting in front of the defence, picking the ball up and dictating play. He's good at creating from deep, spraying passes around and scoring from distance. Im not talking about him playing like Makelele, more like Pirlo or Scholes.
Once his defensive game improves, which it will, I think he'll be a brilliant deep lying playmaker with the ability to score goals and hopefully defend too.
Has he signed yet?
His agent is a cnut, wouldn't surprise if he agreed a deal with Juve.
Yes he is.In a way he's been given the green light to leave this summer so it kinda make sense that he talks the most about the league he'd like to join
Schweinstieger...
does he shit on Fabregas though?
signed what feck it still the same situation as before....
I'd like to put in an early nomination for worst thread of 2012, this thread.
now he has had some more gametime, and looks to be a regular in the 1st team squad, whats the hold up? Get it signed Pogba!
I'll need a bit more to go on
It's a waste. We have Carrick for that sort of role. In the short term, ok but he's not a defensive midfielder just like he's not a winger.The fecker is taking us for a ride! He would have signed by now if he was staying!
My point is Schweinstieger could become that good it that role. So can Pogba. Who has the added advantage of possible being a Vieira physically in the long term if he develops the way some of us think he will. He'd become the driving force of our team fro that role the same way Bastian has become for Bayern and Germany.I'll need a bit more to go on
Sure he could but Schweinstieger wasn't a brilliant winger anyway. You can mold players like maybe chelsea have done with Mikel - where once people thought he'd be a very good offensive player. Now, he's just average. I don't think there's much point long term, Pogba playing deep. It's like playing fletcher on the right. He could perhaps do it, but you're not playing the player in an area where you'll get the best out of him. I think long term, he's a better creative player with a good ability to find space or create space. We might as well buy a specialist defensive minded midfielder in that case. He's not a convincing box to box midfielder and I think to get the best out of him, he would want a degree of freedom but we'll see in the years to come. Hopefully at United.
The thing is Schweinsteiger ala Pogba was always an extremely creative player. Since his move to the center it has become even more apparent. Playing deeper never took that away from him . It just gave him more control over the team.
Chelsea didn't mould. They destroyed! Instead of turning Mikel into a deep lying play maker they instead turned him into a pale imitation of Makelele.
Serves him and them right though. None of that would have happened under SAF's and United's guidance.... I disagree. Pogba first of all is a natural in the center. Plus he seems to have the energy to break forward if needed ala Robson.
As long as he is a master of the ball IMO, he will have that freedom even that deep. Schweinstieger is classic proof. You don't even have to be a defensive natural to be ace in the role. You just need positional sense and the uncanny ability to hardly ever lose the ball. Pogba in the deeper role could thus become the ideal partner for a Carrick. Rather than a new Carrick.
I think the obvious reason why people want more from Pogba defensively is because of his physique. At 6'2" and built like a shed you expect him to be better but as you say he's a creative player and we should be looking to nurture that talent rather than make a defensive player out of him.
I'd be looking to get him to use that physique offensively, get him to attack the box at corners and make a nuisance of himself.
He'd just be a central midfielder, we don't really have them split into attacking and defensive roles. Everyone has to do their part defensively off the ball and make sure they're capable of retaining it in possession.
That's nonsense, of course we do. You think Cleverley is expected to take on the same defensive load as Carrick or Fletcher?
If we are very very lucky, Pogba will turn into something closer to Yaya Toure than to Vieira or any of the other candidates touted above.
For me it was the other way round completely. It was the emergence of the TC and Ando pairing that were the catalyst to the 'on fire' form of the offensive players.
If you cast your mind back, we were actually getting beat 2-0 by City when those 2 were introduced, they changed the dynamic of that game and those following imo right up until Clev was injured against Bolton. After that game we were never the same.
We actually didn't dominate possession either with those 2 as a pairing. What they made us was devastating on the counter. Those 2 carried the ball deep into the opponents half before giving the forwards the ball. Rooney, Nani and Young were regularly receiving the ball in areas where they could do the most damage, and they did.
Contrast that to before and after the TC/Ando pairing and you see Rooney almost having to come to the half way line to pick up possession and play the ball out to an isolated winger 35 yards from goal. Our players are often much too far apart when Carrick or Giggs/Scholes in the middle. That is what the TC/Ando partnership brought to the team and why they contributed so much to the form of our attackers.
We were open at the back though, conceding 19 shots per game on average. Our strikers since then have never hit those heights, because imo they do not receive the ball in favourable areas often enough to be able to all simultaneously reproduce that early form.
You think Cleverley doesn't need to improve on his defensive side?
Carrick is vital to us both going forward and defending, he kind of illustrates my point. We don't stick midfielders up top, their sole purpose to attack, just like we don't play a holding midfielder that has zero forward ambition. If Pogba makes it here as a central midfielder, he'll have to be a mix of both. It so happens that he has an excellent set of abilities that make him very able to do so.
That's nonsense. Watch Carricks line next time he plays, he very rarely finds himself wide and he very rarely finds himself further forward than a winger. His role is to pick up the ball and distribute it. Cleverley on the other hand is always allowed a very free role where his game is to interlink with the wingers and strikers, pass and move and create and exploit space. They play very different roles, one defensive and one attacking.
To suggest we don't have midfielders with definitive roles is just daft. Everyone but the strikers are expected to do a bit of defending every now and again but that's beside the point. Ever heard Scholes talking about his takling? Never felt he had to improve it because it wasn't something he was really expected to do. No reason why Pogba shouldn't be afforded the same luxury if he can become a top notch attacking midfielder for us.
Football is changing. Just look at the Spanish as an example. Guys like Martinez are as comfortable with the ball as any world class playmaker. However while the concept between DM and AM is slowly fading it still exist. You'll always have guys like Busquets and guys like Iniesta. Anyone can see the difference between them.
Nothing has changed, if anything the distinction between the two is getting stronger as the "box to box" type of player, in the top tier anyway, fades out and specialised players become more prominent.
I disagree. Take Athletico Bilbao. They attack en masse and defend en masse. Everyone is comfortable with the ball and they can defend/attack like any top DM/AM. The difference is still there, but the gap between DM and AM is closing down.
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