Paul Pogba

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devilish said:
Football is changing. Just look at the Spanish as an example. Guys like Martinez are as comfortable with the ball as any world class playmaker. However while the concept between DM and AM is slowly fading it still exist. You'll always have guys like Busquets and guys like Iniesta. Anyone can see the difference between them.
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That's rubbish, DM and AM's aren't going anywhere and the increase in ball-playing CB's is down to the managers more than anything (Guardiola and Bielsa). If anything expect even greater role definition within midfielders, tactics only tend to go in cycles anyway so nothing dies it just stops being trendy. Also at the end of the day you can only setup according to what you have at your disposal, the Spanish can setup this way because they have an incredibly talented generation of players who longer have the weight of underachievement on their shoulders.

Back on topic Pogba can play the deep-lying role for me, he just needs experience. He lacks the positional sense and the ability to dictate play but that will come with time and experience. I think we could see Pogba follow a similar career trajectory to Scholes in that he'll start off more advanced and drop deeper, however I think this could happen earlier on in Pogba's career. Anyway sign the friggin' contract Pogba!
 
The irritating thing about this is it feels like some kid who's proven nothing has essentially held us up to give him more playing time when he should shut up, sign, thank his lucky stars and respect that Fergie knows when it's time for him.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
That's rubbish, DM and AM's aren't going anywhere and the increase in ball-playing CB's is down to the managers more than anything (Guardiola and Bielsa). If anything expect even greater role definition within midfielders, tactics only tend to go in cycles anyway so nothing dies it just stops being trendy.
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I've already said. The roles will still exist but the gap between AM and DM will get closer. We'll see more Javi Martinez/Carrick type of DM then Gattuso type of DM and we'll see more Iniestas/Scholes type of AM then Riquelme/Veron type of AM.
 
devilish said:
I've already said. The roles will still exist but the gap between AM and DM will get closer. We'll see more Javi Martinez/Carrick type of DM then Gattuso type of DM and we'll see more Iniestas/Scholes type of AM then Riquelme/Veron type of AM.
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What does that even mean? The gap between AM and DM is just a normal CM. All the roles will continue to exist and be used depending on what the said manager has at their disposal. If you have a Roy Keane you might be able to deploy him in a 2 man midfield in a box-to-box role if not you will have to adapt.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
What does that even mean? The gap between AM and DM is just a normal CM. All the roles will continue to exist and be used depending on what the said manager has at their disposal. If you have a Roy Keane you might be able to deploy him in a 2 man midfield in a box-to-box role if not you will have to adapt.
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What I mean is that we'll see more cultured DM and more hardworking AM. That is, in my opinion, how football is evolving this days.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
The thing is Schweinsteiger ala Pogba was always an extremely creative player. Since his move to the center it has become even more apparent. Playing deeper never took that away from him . It just gave him more control over the team.

i don't watch munich. Is schweinsteiger a defensive midfielder? Personally I look at Carrick who's 30 as the better option because he provides that ability but also I think that pressing and tacking really start up the field. There's nothing to say Pogba couldn't implement that higher up the pitch though he will probably be a little rash (like scholes lol)


Chelsea didn't mould. They destroyed! Instead of turning Mikel into a deep lying play maker they instead turned him into a pale imitation of Makelele. :lol: Serves him and them right though. None of that would have happened under SAF's and United's guidance....

We agree on that. I think they moulded though because they had ideas about his position and what they wanted. It certainly wouldn't have happened at United. It's hard to say how good he could have been, never saw him in that tournament where he finished second best offensive player behind messi i think it was

I disagree. Pogba first of all is a natural in the center. Plus he seems to have the energy to break forward if needed ala Robson.

Yes in central, we're probably only disagreeing over fractions. Nothing major. He does have energy but he's not a driving force ala robson, Keane etc. He's different to Scholes but for me ideally he could play that position - when scholes used to ghost in the box.

As long as he is a master of the ball IMO, he will have that freedom even that deep. Schweinstieger is classic proof. You don't even have to be a defensive natural to be ace in the role. You just need positional sense and the uncanny ability to hardly ever lose the ball. Pogba in the deeper role could thus become the ideal partner for a Carrick. Rather than a new Carrick.
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Again for me he has a few things going for him. A good understanding how to make space, the ability to make space. I'd rather he be infront of Carrick though - unless we push Carrick forward because for me united really don't play defensive midfielders per say. If both can pick and choose their moments, with Cleverly etc then alls well i'm sure
 
devilish said:
What I mean is that we'll see more cultured DM and more hardworking AM. That is, in my opinion, how football is evolving this days.
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Or perhaps people are learning these more defined roles better and are improving the position. It's not really an evolution because you will still have teams who love a Riquelme type playmaker and who will use such a player effectively. Also I'd say players not being constrained to their role i.e. DM's not being gifted on the ball, is in fact quite an old concept (Total Football).
 
ArmchairCritic said:
That's rubbish, DM and AM's aren't going anywhere and the increase in ball-playing CB's is down to the managers more than anything (Guardiola and Bielsa). If anything expect even greater role definition within midfielders, tactics only tend to go in cycles anyway so nothing dies it just stops being trendy. Also at the end of the day you can only setup according to what you have at your disposal, the Spanish can setup this way because they have an incredibly talented generation of players who longer have the weight of underachievement on their shoulders.

Back on topic Pogba can play the deep-lying role for me, he just needs experience. He lacks the positional sense and the ability to dictate play but that will come with time and experience. I think we could see Pogba follow a similar career trajectory to Scholes in that he'll start off more advanced and drop deeper, however I think this could happen earlier on in Pogba's career. Anyway sign the friggin' contract Pogba!
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The trend you speak of isn't down to "the way football is going" or whatever, for me it's down to what type of player the best clubs have and how they are best utilised. That becomes flavour of the month and it is then met with teams trying to imitate.

I'm predicting the next wave to be ultra defensive again . 2 technically brilliant centre backs, two fullbacks rather than wing backs and two defensive midfielders who play for both possesion and clean sheets. The type of team that Barcelona would come unstuck against, a team that likes to lose the ball even less but is also a match for their offence in defence.
 
Pexbo said:
The trend you speak of isn't down to "the way football is going" or whatever, for me it's down to what type of player the best clubs have and how they are best utilised. That becomes flavour of the month and it is then met with teams trying to imitate.
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I alluded to such didn't I in using the Spanish team as an example. I think you might have got confused between me and devilish.
 
Pexbo said:
The trend you speak of isn't down to "the way football is going" or whatever, for me it's down to what type of player the best clubs have and how they are best utilised. That becomes flavour of the month and it is then met with teams trying to imitate.

I'm predicting the next wave to be ultra defensive again . 2 technically brilliant centre backs, two fullbacks rather than wing backs and two defensive midfielders who play for both possesion and clean sheets. The type of team that Barcelona would come unstuck against, a team that likes to lose the ball even less but is also a match for their offence in defence.
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Maureen is definitely the man to spearhead such a trend.
 
Pexbo said:
That's nonsense. Watch Carricks line next time he plays, he very rarely finds himself wide and he very rarely finds himself further forward than a winger. His role is to pick up the ball and distribute it. Cleverley on the other hand is always allowed a very free role where his game is to interlink with the wingers and strikers, pass and move and create and exploit space. They play very different roles, one defensive and one attacking.

To suggest we don't have midfielders with definitive roles is just daft. Everyone but the strikers are expected to do a bit of defending every now and again but that's beside the point. Ever heard Scholes talking about his takling? Never felt he had to improve it because it wasn't something he was really expected to do. No reason why Pogba shouldn't be afforded the same luxury if he can become a top notch attacking midfielder for us.
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You seem to have taken my suggestion that we don't play with typical "attacking" and "defensive" midfielders and turned it into me saying "all our midfielders play the same". I'm well aware that various players have differing abilities and play in different ways. The only reason I made the point was that people were talking about the possibility of turning him a primarily defensive sitting player and it being a waste of his talent - I didn't think that was an accurate description of any Manchester United midfielder at the present time or the way we play, so I didn't think it was worth worrying about.

Ease up a little on your "that's nonsense" stuff as well, you can put points across without it well enough.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
I alluded to such didn't I in using the Spanish team as an example. I think you might have got confused between me and devilish.
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No, I was agreeing with you and expanding on what you said.
 
Striker10 said:
Again for me he has a few things going for him. A good understanding how to make space, the ability to make space. I'd rather he be infront of Carrick though - unless we push Carrick forward because for me united really don't play defensive midfielders per say. If both can pick and choose their moments, with Cleverly etc then alls well i'm sure
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This started because I said Pogba should start deeper in the future and you interpreted that as him being a DM, even when I clarified what I meant. Scholes very often comes deeper than Carrick to take the ball of the defenders and then he moves forward once he's played the ball off. This is what I envisage Pogba doing. He's going to be an awesome passer and he should dictate play for the team instead of being a product of what an inferior passer behind him can create.

Chief put it perfectly when talking about Sneijder. Playing him deeper gave him more control over the team. You want your most talented midfielder doing this, not someone that is there to protect your defence. Playing this role woudn't even limit how far up the pitch Pogba could venture, as Scholes has displayed over the last few years.
 
How did he play for the reserves last night? didnt get too catch the game.
 
pocco said:
This started because I said Pogba should start deeper in the future and you interpreted that as him being a DM, even when I clarified what I meant. Scholes very often comes deeper than Carrick to take the ball of the defenders and then he moves forward once he's played the ball off. This is what I envisage Pogba doing. He's going to be an awesome passer and he should dictate play for the team instead of being a product of what an inferior passer behind him can create.

Chief put it perfectly when talking about Sneijder. Playing him deeper gave him more control over the team. You want your most talented midfielder doing this, not someone that is there to protect your defence. Playing this role woudn't even limit how far up the pitch Pogba could venture, as Scholes has displayed over the last few years.
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Yes and I said personally i'd like to see the scholes of old not the scholes of current? What difference does it make Carrick picking the ball out from deep? He's more experienced at it where as Pogba would probably be more effective in the final third
 
Adam-Utd said:
How did he play for the reserves last night? didnt get too catch the game.
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He showed sublime skill on the ball, kept it really well with some Berba like silky moves where he was surrounded by several players but still somehow came away with the ball. He also had a couple great passes.

He lacked a bit of killer instinct in front of goal though, and he was mostly on the right wing, which limited him a bit in the form of being involved.
 
Played better than his last game, that's for sure.

He definitely looks better the more free the role he has in the team. He was on the wing last night and didn't have to help his fullback out much at all.

I'd still have major doubts about starting him in central midfield alongside anyone other than Michael Carrick (while giving Carrick strict instructions not to get any further forward than the half-way line)
 
Sir Alex is pleased to have a wide variety of selection options ahead of the match with Fulham at Old Trafford on Monday.

Paul Pogba was substituted during the Reserves' win against Aston Villa because he will be involved against the Cottagers and the manager admits he is still hopeful that the young midfielder will commit his future to the club by signing a new contract.

Several other first-teamers also played at Moss Lane with Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Tom Cleverley and Fabio all getting valuable minutes under their belts.

"We took Paul off as he will be involved on Monday," stated Sir Alex. "We want him to stay because we think he's going to be a fantastic Manchester United player. We hope that's the case.

"Jones and Smalling have been in and out with injuries and illness. Cleverley, Pogba and Fabio had bits of games. We're only waiting on Nani and Michael Owen now and expect both to start training with us next week."

The Reds know that nothing less than a victory will suffice against the Cottagers as the title race looks like going down to the wire.

"Every game is a must-win game," the boss added. "Hopefully we can keep the momentum going. We're delighted to have most of the players fit now. It gives me a variety and getting players back strengthens our challenge."
 
The fact he's getting involved in the title run in is either Ferguson using his head and getting him match time when he feels comfortable a la Wolves and making him feel involved or he's genuinely decided he is good enough and he has made the grade.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'd still have major doubts about starting him in central midfield alongside anyone other than Michael Carrick (while giving Carrick strict instructions not to get any further forward than the half-way line)
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Completely agree. In fact, I think having 2 orthodox CMs behind him will allow him to shine a lot more. But of course he is still young enough to be molded into more versatile player.
 
He was shut out for a while and now back in - either something has happened in the meantie with respect to the contract, or Fergie is desperate and feels forced to give him play time. Either way, lets hope he stays
 
Not sure if this has been posted before.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/03/21/2979887/revealed-juventus-offer-16000-a-week-five-year-deal-in-bid

Revealed: Juventus offer £16,000-a-week five-year deal in bid to trump Manchester United in Pogba tug-of-war
The French midfielder is weighing up his playing future after reaching an outline agreement with Juve chief executive Giuseppe Marotta three weeks ago on huge contract

Paul Pogba celebrated his 19th birthday last Thursday uncertain where he will play his football next season but safe in the knowledge that he is at the centre of a tug-of-war involving current and would-be employers, Manchester United and Juventus.
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United have made moves to convince Pogba that his future lies at Old Trafford and prevent him from making a summer switch to Serie A by re-opening contract negotiations and giving the midfielder some first-team action.

Goal.com can reveal for the first time the detail of the offer that the Frenchman has personally received from Juventus general director Giuseppe Marotta.

It includes a five-year contract initially worth €500,000-a-year (£418,000-a-year) for each of the first two years but with a clause that if he breaks into the first team his salary will rise to €1 million (£835,000) per annum, or £16,000-a-week.

Sources in Italy have told Goal.com that Juventus have mapped out their specific plan for Pogba, which would involve him starting off with the youth team and then being promoted to the first team if his progress satisfies the coaching staff.

It can also be revealed that Juve will include the provision for Pogba to go out on loan to a Serie B club to further his development if this is requested by coach Antonio Conte and youth-team boss Marco Baroni.

Pogba and his representatives came to an outline agreement with Marotta over a deal starting in the summer, when his United contract expires, pending a decision from the Premier League champions.

Although Juventus were on the verge of closing a deal at the start of this month, it was not advanced to the point where the player signed a pre-contract, which he is now entitled to do with a club on the continent under Fifa transfer rules.

Should Pogba move abroad, United would not receive a transfer fee, although they would be due a nominal sum to cover ‘training compensation’ under Fifa rules. A move within England would require a fee to be set by an independent tribunal.

There is a growing sense at Juventus that Pogba’s camp, which is headed by super agent Mino Raiola, could be using the offer on the table from the Italian giants as leverage to get a better deal from United and fast-track his progress into the first-team set-up.

United are keen to convince the France Under-19 international, who joined the club from Le Havre in 2009, that his future is best served at Old Trafford and senior officials including Sir Alex Ferguson are trying to persuade the player to turn his back on the Juventus deal.

With his future in the balance it is perhaps no coincidence that Pogba has made cameo substitute appearances in each of United’s last three matches – against West Brom, Athletic Bilbao and Wolves. Up to that point, his first-team playing time outside of the League Cup had amounted to 17 minutes against Stoke City on the final day of the January transfer window.


“The boy is still trying to make his mind up, but he knows where he should be and has shown the potential he has got. He is a first team player, there is no question about that”

- Sir Alex Ferguson

Speaking after United’s Premier League win over West Brom 10 days ago, Ferguson admitted that Pogba had yet to decide whether to stick or twist.

“The boy is still trying to make his mind up, but he knows where he should be and he has shown the potential he has got,” said the United manager. “He is a first team player, there is no question about that.”

Ferguson is loathe to lose a young central midfielder whom he rates so highly and who had initially been earmarked for the first team in 2012-13 so soon after reluctantly allowing Ravel Morrison to join West Ham.

The Scot has been outspoken about the influence of Pogba’s representatives, who he accused earlier this year of chasing the best cash offer for their client.

He said: “Matt Busby summed it up perfectly, that you don't need to chase money at a club like Manchester United, it will eventually find you. If you're good enough, you will earn money and become rich playing for us, there's no doubt about it.”
 
If Pogba is not convinced now that he is a first team player then he will never be. He is consistently being involved in our first team and has been given assurances by Fergie that he is now recognised as a first team player.
 
I'd think United would be a much more interesting option for most young players than Juve these days. I'm sure Juve is really interested, but I'd think even his agent would agree that United has more exposure across the world and is a better platform for launching a career and all those lovely sponsorship opportunities, and I think Juve is just a move by his agent to get him more money.
 
Pogba himself still has to make the final decision, not his agent even if he tries to influence him. I think SAF's had a chat with Pogba and I think that's why Paul's getting the playing time he's getting.
 
Stretch said:
Pogba himself still has to make the final decision, not his agent even if he tries to influence him. I think SAF's had a chat with Pogba and I think that's why Paul's getting the playing time he's getting.
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So the question is why hasn't he signed yet?

Would you be confident of him staying if it gets to the stage where he's out of contract this summer?
 
pocco said:
So the question is why hasn't he signed yet?

Would you be confident of him staying if it gets to the stage where he's out of contract this summer?
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Seeing as he's already entitled to sign a pre-contract it makes no difference to his decision whether or not he's out of contract.

Obviously, the fact he hasn't signed a contract yet is a cause for concern but all the noises coming out of the camp are positive and the only real change in the coming months looks likely to be Pogba feeling more and more a part of our first-team squad. Which has to make it more, rather than less, likely he will decide to stay.
 
pocco said:
So the question is why hasn't he signed yet?

Would you be confident of him staying if it gets to the stage where he's out of contract this summer?
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I have no idea why he hasn't signed yet. I'm not privy to the contract negotiations to give you any picture on that. Of course, if we get to summer and he still hasn't signed then I'd be inclined to think he's off. However, that's still a while off at this stage. And the feeling I get from SAF is that he's confident the lad will sign.
 
Oh and just a theory on the reason he hasn't signed is that maybe he's just considering his future carefully before committing to a 4/5 year contract. It is an important decision in the context of his life. I'm just speculating of course.
 
Stretch said:
I have no idea why he hasn't signed yet. I'm not privy to the contract negotiations to give you any picture on that. Of course, if we get to summer and he still hasn't signed then I'd be inclined to think he's off. However, that's still a while off at this stage. And the feeling I get from SAF is that he's confident the lad will sign.
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The reason I ask if you'd still be confident of him signing in the summer when he's out of contract is because this Twitter account of his agents said that it'll be sorted out in the summer. Now I'm not sure if it is a real account, but if it is, then I'm not confident of a positive outcome should this be left to the summer when he's out of contract.
 
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...nchester-united-yesterday-in-effort-to-reach-

Another day, another update on the Paul Pogba saga. Today's Gazzetta dello Sport, the top sports newspaper in Italy - you know the one, huge and pink - says that the player's agent Mino Raiola was speaking to Manchester United officials yesterday trying to come to an agreement over the player.

It's been widely reported that Raiola has already agreed a deal with Juventus and we've often brought you news from the Italian press saying the Italian club are confident that agreement will come to fruition, but we could be set for another twist and one which may please many Manchester United fans.

TMW reports the comment from inside Gazzetta and say that the purpose of yesterday's meeting was to come to an agreement on renewal, they say Juventus will hope the Premier League leaders haven't met Raiola's demands and the move to Italy will still go ahead - but the fact Pogba's agent and Manchester United are talking has to be a positive sign.

Sir Alex Ferguson praised Pogba in his press conference today and the BBC quote him as saying "We want Pogba to stay because we think he's going to be a fantastic Manchester United player and hopefully that's the case."

The effort Manchester United are putting into trying to keep the player shows how highly they rate him, a lesser talent would have been shown the door as soon as his agent started these antics. However, it's not fair to put the blame solely at the agent's door, Pogba appointed Raiola and will have been aware of his reputation of squeezing money out of clubs - it can hardly be surprising that he's now trying to squeeze as much as possible out of Manchester United.
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