Shinji Kagawa | Signs for Manchester United

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thegregster said:
Cleverley can play in a deeper role.

------Carrick-----Cleverley----
----------Kagawa-------------
Valenica----Rooney-------Nani

Nice pit of pace in that setup. :drool:

Ashley Young,Welbeck,Hernandez on the bench also have pace to burn. I can see us doing a few teams on the counter attack away from home in spectacular fashion.
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That would be brilliant for the teams we struggle to break down, both Cleverley and Kagawa there to provide some incisive passing and a goal threat. We just need that one back up for Carrick now :drool:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's unfair on Cleverley. He's a real goal threat.

The one really big advantage Kagawa has had over Cleverley this last season was managing not to get a serious long-term injury.

In fact, Cleverley's bad luck with injuries has really hindered his development ever since he won Watford's player of the season (11 goals in 33 appearances) If he can catch a break (no pun intended) I can see him and Kagawa link up for United in the same way that Kagawa and Gotze did for Dortmund (or Cleverley and Lansbury did at Watford). It's quite an exciting prospect tbh.
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This, with Anderson being groomed as a deeper midfield enforcer would certainly fit the bill.
 
RedRover said:
Dortmund wouldn't have much choice if he didn't want to move. I appreciate that United will want to get a player they think they need without taking the risk and that's fine - my point was that the poster i responded to seemed to was banging on about "value" as if this is a great deal.

United could be paying up to £20 million for a player who would have cost nothing next summer, or a damn sight less in january is all I'm saying.
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I don't think it will be 20m. It would be more like 16m. Anyway one must consider the following issues

a) Would it be wise to piss Dortmund off by taking one of their players for free? I mean, the present German side is oozing with great talent. Hummels, Gotze, Lewandoski etc, all players Kagawa knows and may convince to sign with us. So its a good idea to keep friendly terms with such club

b) What makes you think that Kagawa want to play a fast one to Dortmund? I mean, this guy owe Dortmund everything. What they are asking in exchange is a decent fee. I may understand if Dortmund would want 50m for the player but 15-20m? Don't forget that the EPL is a step up and like any step up its possible for a person not to reach the expectations set. The Bundersliga has proven pretty forgiving towards players who failed to make an impact somewhere else (ex Diego) or had grown too old to do the job somewhere else (ex Ballack). So its unwise to burn bridges.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's unfair on Cleverley. He's a real goal threat.

The one really big advantage Kagawa has had over Cleverley this last season was managing not to get a serious long-term injury.

In fact, Cleverley's bad luck with injuries has really hindered his development ever since he won Watford's player of the season (11 goals in 33 appearances) If he can catch a break with injuries (no pun intended) I can see him and Kagawa link up for United in the same way that Kagawa and Gotze did for Dortmund (or Cleverley and Lansbury did at Watford). It's quite an exciting prospect tbh.
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Yep. He strikes me as a clever pass and move type player that can open things up around the box.

The propsect of him clicking with Cleverly, Anderson and Rooney is mouth watering.
 
2Bullish said:
This, with Anderson being groomed as a deeper midfield enforcer would certainly fit the bill.
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Anderson should be groomed as a player who can actually complete a season without getting a serious injury. After that we can work out his best position but midfield enforcer he most certainly isn't.
 
thegregster said:
Cleverley can play in a deeper role.

------Carrick-----Cleverley----
----------Kagawa-------------
Valenica----Rooney-------Nani

Nice pit of pace in that setup. :drool:

Ashley Young,Welbeck,Hernandez on the bench also have pace to burn. I can see us doing a few teams on the counter attack away from home in spectacular fashion.
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To be honest, I'd much rather a ball winning passer than Cleverley alongside Carrick. A Martinez or a cheaper equivalent.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's unfair on Cleverley. He's a real goal threat.

The one really big advantage Kagawa has had over Cleverley this last season was managing not to get a serious long-term injury.

In fact, Cleverley's bad luck with injuries has really hindered his development ever since he won Watford's player of the season (11 goals in 33 appearances) If he can catch a break with injuries (no pun intended) I can see him and Kagawa link up for United in the same way that Kagawa and Gotze did for Dortmund (or Cleverley and Lansbury did at Watford). It's quite an exciting prospect tbh.
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There's a difference between scoring goals for Watford and Utd. Not saying he doesn't score goals but he's not nearly as productive as Kagawa in that regard, no slight on him, because Kagawa is a very direct player who loves to get in one-on-one situations and into the penalty area.

I do think him and Kagawa could link up well, not to mention with Rooney head of them and the 2 best wingers in the league either side of them, quite the formidable attack right there, but in truth we should be looking to get a more defensive minded midfielder to compliment Carrick, for bigger games and in Europe at least. Against lesser teams it could certainly work well.

I'm always right said:
Ando in for Cleverley there would also be great.
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To be brutally honest, the chances of that happening are really, really low at this stage.
 
I'm always right said:
No CM? :eek:
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Kagawa is a central player.
A player to play in the sitting back 2 would be great, but I wouldnt be too surprised if we didnt get someone for that.

Any updates on Fletch?


This more than makes up for missing out on Hazard.. Kagawa is the ONE.
 
Siorac said:
By a total of 5 months.

At the moment Cleverley has to prove that his body is up to the rigours of top level football. Kagawa, on the other hand, has been performing consistently in Germany's best team for two years. Right now he's obviously a better player, not an "alternative" to Cleverley.
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Yes he has to prove he's strong enough but that's just the luck of the draw. Saha weren't extensively injury prone till we bought him lol. You just never know. My point is in type of player. When you talk about better player, their records speak for themselves....

Cleverly does have goals in him.

But what i'm saying is when Cleverly was on song in the early parts of the season, we looked as good as we have in a very long time and when he is out, this guy could offer similar in terms of not over complicating things, being selfless but yes he's shown quality. Let's hope he produces that in England for United.
 
Cina said:
To be honest, I'd much rather a ball winning passer than Cleverley alongside Carrick. A Martinez or a cheaper equivalent.
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You really, really, really like Martinez, don't you? :smirk:

Can't blame you, the lad is a brilliant prospect. But I can't see him leaving Spain, he'll go to one of the big two there.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's unfair on Cleverley. He's a real goal threat.

The one really big advantage Kagawa has had over Cleverley this last season was managing not to get a serious long-term injury.

In fact, Cleverley's bad luck with injuries has really hindered his development ever since he won Watford's player of the season (11 goals in 33 appearances) If he can catch a break with injuries (no pun intended) I can see him and Kagawa link up for United in the same way that Kagawa and Gotze did for Dortmund (or Cleverley and Lansbury did at Watford). It's quite an exciting prospect tbh.
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Thinking of the speedy combination play from the beginning of last season, the thought of Carrick setting of either of Cleverley/Anderson/Kagawa/Rooney/Welbeck is mouth watering. These are players who among them can give something we seriously lack when Valencia, Park and Hernandez play simutaneosley: Speed on the ball.
 
I genuinely don't understand why people are so excited about the prospect of signing a player and playing some magical new formation that forces our best youth product in a decade out of the side.

Do people really rate Kagawa that much more highly than Welbeck, despite the fact most of those in this thread have probably seen him no more than a handful of times?
 
Count Orduck said:
I genuinely don't understand why people are so excited about the prospect of signing a player and playing some magical new formation that forces our best youth prospect in a decade out of the side.

Do people really rate Kagawa that much more highly than Welbeck, despite the fact most of those in this thread have probably seen him no more than a handful of times?
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Options. He won't be out of the side permanently will he? What about when he has a dip in form, needs a rest or is injured?

If we could guarantee that 11 players would stay fit and in good form all season long then we wouldn't need squads would we?
 
devilish said:
I don't think it will be 20m. It would be more like 16m. Anyway one must consider the following issues

a) Would it be wise to piss Dortmund off by taking one of their players for free? I mean, the present German side is oozing with great talent. Hummels, Gotze, Lewandoski etc, all players Kagawa knows and may convince to sign with us. So its a good idea to keep friendly terms with such club

b) What makes you think that Kagawa want to play a fast one to Dortmund? I mean, this guy owe Dortmund everything. What they are asking in exchange is a decent fee. I may understand if Dortmund would want 50m for the player but 15-20m? Don't forget that the EPL is a step up and like any step up its possible for a person not to reach the expectations set. The Bundersliga has proven pretty forgiving towards players who failed to make an impact somewhere else (ex Diego) or had grown too old to do the job somewhere else (ex Ballack). So its unwise to burn bridges.
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Not to mention if he left on a free he'd probably be looking for a ~£5m sign on fee and probably a couple of million a year more in wages.
 
Cina said:
To be honest, I'd much rather a ball winning passer than Cleverley alongside Carrick. A Martinez or a cheaper equivalent.
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For the big games definitely but for 75% of league games Carrick can provide all the defensive cover we'd need. It's kind of why I want us to sign a young prospect who won't need to play every game but will still be able to come in when needed, who knows maybe Fergie sees Jones are our defensive steel.
 
I don't understand why people wouldn't want a player such as Kagawa added to the squad, when he clearly brings something different to the side to all of our other players.
 
Smores said:
For the big games definitely but for 75% of league games Carrick can provide all the defensive cover we'd need. It's kind of why I want us to sign a young prospect who won't need to play every game but will still be able to come in when needed, who knows maybe Fergie sees Jones are our defensive steel.
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I really hope not.
 
Smores said:
For the big games definitely but for 75% of league games Carrick can provide all the defensive cover we'd need. It's kind of why I want us to sign a young prospect who won't need to play every game but will still be able to come in when needed, who knows maybe Fergie sees Jones are our defensive steel.
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Or he's confident in keeping Pogba.
 
Smores said:
For the big games definitely but for 75% of league games Carrick can provide all the defensive cover we'd need. It's kind of why I want us to sign a young prospect who won't need to play every game but will still be able to come in when needed, who knows maybe Fergie sees Jones are our defensive steel.
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I did mention the bigger games above, though if you take Europe into account too it's more than 25% of our games.

Besides, we're not going to play Kagawa in every game, we'll still use Welbeck/Hernandez - Rooney quite a bit and I'm not sure just having Cleverley alongside Carrick would be stable enough defensively.
 
Drifter said:
All Goals And Assists 2011/2012


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I watched all of Dortmunds games on ESPN last season and re-watching all of this reminds me of why I was so excited when we were linked with the lad. He's cut the mustard in a very tough league in a championship winning team, which beat the Champions League finalists 5-2 in the cup final.

We should have been more excited about this lad than Hazard. He's a much better all round player. I don't know if it's because he's Japanese and we don't expect that kind of flair and skill but in all honesty I really can't wait to see this lad in Utd shirt.
 
Count Orduck said:
I genuinely don't understand why people are so excited about the prospect of signing a player and playing some magical new formation that forces our best youth product in a decade out of the side.

Do people really rate Kagawa that much more highly than Welbeck, despite the fact most of those in this thread have probably seen him no more than a handful of times?
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The days where a player was guaranteed regular first team football with little competition for his first team place whatsoever, is closing to an end. However I trust SAF to give Welbeck ample first team chances irrespective on whether Kagawa signs or not.
 
Count Orduck said:
I genuinely don't understand why people are so excited about the prospect of signing a player and playing some magical new formation that forces our best youth product in a decade out of the side.

Do people really rate Kagawa that much more highly than Welbeck, despite the fact most of those in this thread have probably seen him no more than a handful of times?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you should be directing your questions at Fergie.
 
devilish said:
The days where a player was guaranteed regular first team football with little competition for his first team place whatsoever, is closing to an end. However I trust SAF to give Welbeck ample first team chances irrespective on whether Kagawa signs or not.
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Given our track record of rotating players I'm pretty sure Welbeck will get enough playing time next season.

The only player I see having problems getting enough playing time next year might be Chicharito which makes me kinda sad because I really like the lad.

That being said I think it is nothing written in stone and getting Kagawa just gives us more tactical options which is a good thing imo.
 
Nah with Chicharito getting a rest this Summer I fully expect him to be back to his best next season, he;ll be playing plenty of games. Everyone raves about the Welbeck - Rooney partnership but let's not forget how good (probably better) Hernandez and him were in 10/11
 
Count Orduck said:
I genuinely don't understand why people are so excited about the prospect of signing a player and playing some magical new formation that forces our best youth product in a decade out of the side.

Do people really rate Kagawa that much more highly than Welbeck, despite the fact most of those in this thread have probably seen him no more than a handful of times?
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It doesn't though, Welbeck can be more than useful coming in off the left, in fact we had a very good game attacking wise against west broom with Rooney in behind Hernandez with Welbeck pushed further up on the left.
 
RedRover said:
As if you know any more than anyone else.

Typical - "we didn't want you anyway" about Hazard. I don't know if United did want him but they have never denied the story even when they were alleged to have made a bid and offered personal terms.

Fergie looks for Value in the market - but he paid £20 million for a 19 year old centre back we arguably didn't need last year - suggesting that if he thinks a player is going to be a real star (and if the money is there) he'll commit.

As things stand signing a player like Kagawa makes commercial sense - if you ignore the fact that he could have left for free next summer and/or signed a pre contract in January. That said, I'm pleased to see the club finally throwing some cash at the midifeld problem. Hopefully it continues.
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We were definitely in for Hazard. Fee agreed, terms agreed. SAF made an effort to give Hazard a good impression of the club. Reportedly, although Hazard was impressed, it wasn't enough in the end.

Hazard and Kagawa have been our main targets but Hazard ended up not choosing us. Doesnt mean we're skint or anything like that. We are hampered by the Glazers but we still have money to spend. Hopefully, we sign Kagawa soon though.
 
Cina said:
Nah with Chicharito getting a rest this Summer I fully expect him to be back to his best next season, he;ll be playing plenty of games. Everyone raves about the Welbeck - Rooney partnership but let's not forget how good (probably better) Hernandez and him were in 10/11
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Rooney-Chicha partnership worked well but Chicha's low creativity led to a very low goal tally for Rooney. If only we could combine Welbeck's all-round play with Chicha's finishing, oh what a monster Welcharito would be!
 
It's really not a magical new formation. It's the same 4-4-1-1. It's Kagawa in Rooney's place and Rooney in Welbeck's place. What you gain is a player who is a better creator centrally and a player who is a better goalscorer in the box. I think it's a really shrewd signing (all of which assumes Kagawa hits it off in his first season).

There have been times when we've had to drop Rooney really deep to help out in tight games and leave Welbeck up front alone. Personally, I'd much rather see Kagawa dropping deep to help out and Rooney up front alone.

None of which means Welbeck (or Hernandez) is suddenly going to only get 5 sub appearances in a season. There will be injuries, there will be tough away games where we may need a different style of lone striker, there will be more classical 4-4-2 games where Kagawa is benched in favour of 2 orthodox wingers and 2 orthodox strikers. It's all about options.
 
StanleyCupboard said:
It's really not a magical new formation. It's the same 4-4-1-1. It's Kagawa in Rooney's place and Rooney in Welbeck's place. What you gain is a player who is a better creator centrally and a player who is a better goalscorer in the box. I think it's a really shrewd signing (all of which assumes Kagawa hits it off in his first season).

There have been times when we've had to drop Rooney really deep to help out in tight games and leave Welbeck up front alone. Personally, I'd much rather see Kagawa dropping deep to help out and Rooney up front alone.

None of which means Welbeck (or Hernandez) is suddenly going to only get 5 sub appearances in a season. There will be injuries, there will be tough away games where we may need a different style of lone striker, there will be more classical 4-4-2 games where Kagawa is benched in favour of 2 orthodox wingers and 2 orthodox strikers. It's all about options.
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Exactly what I said but fleshed out better.

God forbid we sign good players to bolster the squad.

We've always been at our best when the manager has had a selection headache due to the sheer amount of options open to him. How often could we say that last season?
 
Edmeiste said:
We were definitely in for Hazard. Fee agreed, terms agreed. SAF made an effort to give Hazard a good impression of the club. Reportedly, although Hazard was impressed, it wasn't enough in the end.

Hazard and Kagawa have been our main targets but Hazard ended up not choosing us. Doesnt mean we're skint or anything like that. We are hampered by the Glazers but we still have money to spend. Hopefully, we sign Kagawa soon though.
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I think that while we wanted him, we couldn't guarantee him anything. I think that over wages was the deciding factor but then again Edens come across completely wrong lol.

We'll have a number of targets so will be interesting. Where are the box to box midfielders?
 
I am astonished at how many posters on this thread cant handle the concept of depth in a squad. It is usually a 60+ game season for us and having three creative players like Kagawa, Cleverley and Scholes in central positions will only help us. Im not convinced Anderson will still be here after the summer but we shall see.
 
Ramshock said:
I am astonished at how many posters on this thread cant handle the concept of depth in a squad. It is usually a 60+ game season for us and having three creative players like Kagawa, Cleverley and Scholes in central positions will only help us. Im not convinced Anderson will still be here after the summer but we shall see.
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I agree. Players get injured, lose form, and so on. We need as much squad depth as possible.
 
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