What Now For Moyes?

united_99 said:
Don't forget this one. I still don't know what he actually meant here, I doubt he knows either! Like most of the time!

It was gently pointed out that his team were 21 points worse off than at this stage last season. "Well, I was at Everton so I wasn't 21 points worse off," he replied. "I was at Everton."
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What i think he was trying to say was United dropping down the table like a stone wasn't his fault because he wasn't the United manager the season before so no one should expect us to be top, we were in the positions Moyes always finished in.

United sitting in 6th-7th had nothing to do with him, Ferguson left him a duff team, the players weren't giving 100%, the Premier League fiddled the fixtures to make it difficult for him etc. etc.

It was everyones fault but Daves.
 
Reading through this thread makes last season seem so surreal. Fecking strange year. Seeing where we are today vs where we would be if Moyes was still here, is the difference between me laughing instead of crying. The "chosen one" banner, all those funny looks from Moyes, the plane flying overhead, the "bobbins" guy, to the highlight of the season for me when Moyes got shitcanned, and of course, that final image of Stevie G slipping up. :) Crazy fecking season.
 
I wonder if he has learned anything from his experience with us. Will it ultimately improve him?. Will he change his footballing philosophy because of it.?.
I will be interested to see how his next team play football to see if he learned and changed.
 
Perfect season start for our Moyesy.

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Rooney in Dublin said:
It was a worse game in the sense it required strong tactical preparation (as CL knock outs do) and yeah we looked clueless.

I agree with those saying Fulham was a low point though, that game had a sense of desperation about it. I remember getting back in from a really nice weekend away with my fiancée and hoping to finish the weekend on a high, and I was just mesmerized by the mediocrity of our plan.

I also remember exchanging a few messages with @Melvyn after the game where the Hull lad told me it had been a low point for him too. :lol: I don't think I've ever exchanged messages about games on here before or after! Though I think I'm going to start sending Eboue some when Arsenal play shit.
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Man of Leisure said:
100% Agreed. Couldn't believe wtf I was watching. All those crosses felt like watching Groundhog Day.
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crossy1686 said:
That was my snapping point. After that I was done with Moyes, his shit football and his pathetic press conferences.
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Lay said:
That game was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I couldn't believe what I was watching.
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You lot would have to have football intelligence to understand what we were trying to do.
 
He doesn't belong in top teams, doesn't have the mentality and to be quite frank he's a coward... Contradicted him self so many times last year making our players look like twats just so he didn't have to admit he was in the wrong.
 
Sarni said:
You lot would have to have football intelligence to understand what we were trying to do.
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That comment is still comedy gold. It doesn't even make sense. Surely we were trying to score right? So, my tiny brain can understand that, does that mean I have football intelligence or am I missing something?

Pink Moon said:
I'd have thought you'd have loved all that crossing...
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Whey! I was in my element.
 
Stack said:
I wonder if he has learned anything from his experience with us. Will it ultimately improve him?. Will he change his footballing philosophy because of it.?.
I will be interested to see how his next team play football to see if he learned and changed.
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I think he's far too stubborn to change anything. He'll come into a new team and make them combative, rugged and defensive minded like he tried to do with Everton and United. If that club has an attacking or possession based philosophy he'll bomb out again. He's pretty much just like Big Sam. If you bring Moyes in, you know exactly what you're going to get, his football won't change.
 
You can see why Ferguson wanted him to keep the backroom staff. He saw qualities of himself in Moyes. Longevity, hard work, long term planning and building teams. Ferguson delegated tasks amongst his staff. At training he was more an observer as opposed to taking part. He could dissect the characteristics of the individuals. The players had good relationships with the coaching staff so the transition would have been easier because they know United's methods. However knowing your manager is observing what you're doing will make the players work hard and buckle down to him. Over time Moyes can implement his stamp but the continuity which was the buzz word at his appointment will be there.

Moyes chose to take training himself. He changed the backroom staff and this causes a group of players having to get to know them and the staff needs time to know the players. First impressions are key and I don't think the players saw these guys (Round + Lumsden + Neville) as United first team coaches. As the transition is poor and results are awful players doubted him. No respect and always playing catch up.

Had Moyes taken that step back rather than try to impose himself immediately the feeling at the club would be "business as usual". The players transition will be no different with SAF's staff. Their thoughts would have been "I have to impress the boss".

By changing the structure Moyes dug himself a hole as the feeling of the players who have won a lot would have been "they have to impress us".
 
Boycott said:
You can see why Ferguson wanted him to keep the backroom staff. He saw qualities of himself in Moyes. Longevity, hard work, long term planning and building teams. Ferguson delegated tasks amongst his staff. At training he was more an observer as opposed to taking part. He could dissect the characteristics of the individuals. The players had good relationships with the coaching staff so the transition would have been easier because they know United's methods. However knowing your manager is observing what you're doing will make the players work hard and buckle down to him. Over time Moyes can implement his stamp but the continuity which was the buzz word at his appointment will be there.

Moyes chose to take training himself. He changed the backroom staff and this causes a group of players having to get to know them and the staff needs time to know the players. First impressions are key and I don't think the players saw these guys (Round + Lumsden + Neville) as United first team coaches. As the transition is poor and results are awful players doubted him. No respect and always playing catch up.

Had Moyes taken that step back rather than try to impose himself immediately the feeling at the club would be "business as usual". The players transition will be no different with SAF's staff. Their thoughts would have been "I have to impress the boss".

By changing the structure Moyes dug himself a hole as the feeling of the players who have won a lot would have been "they have to impress us".
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I agree with most of that but I don't know how feasible it would have been for Moyes to observe from on high as Fergie did in his latter years. Fergie was much more hands on in his younger days and, by the time he was delegating more and more, he already had a bulletproof reputation. It would have been much less convincing had Moyes tried to assume the role of omniscient, slightly distant overlord of Carrington.
 
At least we can take some positives from that season, one being certain players are good, ie those who didn't turn on him. Rooney obviously being the main one, no surprise there, Fletcher was supportive, Fellaini, Adnan, Mata, de Gea, Kags, Nani. Losing the seniors in the dressing room killed Moyes. I was disappointed in them, mainly Evra, Rio & Vidic. With Giggs, we all know what character he is anyway, no surprise there with him. It's also interetsig to hear from Rio's perspective, with his new book out.

With RvP I thought, from various reports, he was against Moyes. This was highlighted after the Olympiakos game, during that dutch interview that was translated incorrectly. From the English quotes it appeared he was 'attacking' Moyes and his setup, but this was out of context, while in the dutch interview he went on about it in more detail. That's the interview I'm referring to.


After Moyes was sacked, he did an interview saying he felt sorry for him, that after seeing someone work so hard, but end up not working out, it's bad. But that's Football. This interview was on BT Sport, with Clare Balding? http://sport.bt.com/video-013638144...495001&videotitle=RVP: I feel sorry for Moyes

After the City game at OT, Paul Scholes was honest & direct with his criticism the signings (Fellaini & Mata) haven't lived up to expectation, he also said in an earlier interview that some players haven't performed for Moyes.
 
Midnight1811 said:
At least we can take some positives from that season, one being certain players are good, ie those who didn't turn on him. Rooney obviously being the main one, no surprise there, Fletcher was supportive, Fellaini, Adnan, Mata, de Gea, Kags, Nani. Losing the seniors in the dressing room killed Moyes. I was disappointed in them, mainly Evra, Rio & Vidic. With Giggs, we all know what character he is anyway, no surprise there with him. It's also interetsig to hear from Rio's perspective, with his new book out.

With RvP I thought, from various reports, he was against Moyes. This was highlighted after the Olympiakos game, during that dutch interview that was translated incorrectly. From the English quotes it appeared he was 'attacking' Moyes and his setup, but this was out of context, while in the dutch interview he went on about it in more detail. That's the interview I'm referring to.


After Moyes was sacked, he did an interview saying he felt sorry for him, that after seeing someone work so hard, but end up not working out, it's bad. But that's Football. This interview was on BT Sport, with Clare Balding? http://sport.bt.com/video-01363814401986?videoid=3549336495001&videotitle=RVP: I feel sorry for Moyes

After the City game at OT, Paul Scholes was honest & direct with his criticism the signings (Fellaini & Mata) haven't lived up to expectation, he also said in an earlier interview that some players haven't performed for Moyes.
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Agree with the general perception about players need to be backing the manager, but in this case I have very little doubt that this was a blessing.
 
moonred said:
Agree with the general perception about players need to be backing the manager, but in this case I have very little doubt that this was a blessing.
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Yeah man, we now have a competent manager to face the strong Chelsea/City. LvG gives that confidence that regardless of who City/Chelsea sign, we are challenging at the forefront, not staying back like with Moyes.
 
Midnight1811 said:
After the City game at OT, Paul Scholes was honest & direct with his criticism the signings (Fellaini & Mata) haven't lived up to expectation, he also said in an earlier interview that some players haven't performed for Moyes.
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I think this was Moyes biggest failing. You cannot let players rule the dressing room. None of the players are half as mercurial as someone like Keane, yet Moyes let them have tooo free a reign and it backfired on everyone involved. Good tactics or bad, the manager MUST always be the boss.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think this was Moyes biggest failing. You cannot let players rule the dressing room. None of the players are half as mercurial as someone like Keane, yet Moyes let them have tooo free a reign and it backfired on everyone involved. Good tactics or bad, the manager MUST always be the boss.
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Yeah what annoyed me was giving Rooney free reign. Although he was arguably our best player, the message that was sent out was, if he can do it, and get away with it, then so can I.
 
Moyes probably be best off going foreign. If he does another good job with a mid-table side like West Ham or Villa and gets them finishing 7th-9th every year without spending money he still might not get another crack at a top job.
 
moonred said:
Agree with the general perception about players need to be backing the manager, but in this case I have very little doubt that this was a blessing.
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Absolutely. Besides, the manager needs to earn the respect of the employees. How can multiple-league and European cup winning players truly respect a man whose best achievement is keeping Everton in the top third of the table for a decade? They can't. I never blamed the players in this episode and in fact they were dead right the whole time. In any employment you know when your boss is out of their depth. Hell, I could cite examples from my own life when I've had managers who weren't up to task. Moyes was lost in this job from the get go, and if it was obvious to us then it's certainly far more obvious to the players close to him. Honestly we should have got rid at Christmas.
 
I think there's an awful lot more to come out about Moyes and his time here - and I also think much of it will mean a revisiting of his time at Everton as well. With the improvement Everton made last season after Moyes left, allied to the disastrous reign here, I am really staggered that people are still in with this "he was a good manager for Everton" bit - not something I hear from the Everton fans I know. He caused division in this club, lost the dressing room, presided over the demise of the Champions, produced dire football and was unable to see that anything he did was wrong. I know there's a public facade of support for him at the moment, but I'm not sure how long it will last in the fusilade of revelations that will come out as players and others start revealing things. Once the revelations start, they will gain their own momentum and people will revisit some of the issues that have been reported from his time at Everton. This will seriously challenge the reputation he has for management and his entire history will come under the kind of intense scrutiny it has been missing in the past.
 
The Man Utd/Moyes saga also reminds me of some typical large complex projects:

PM no.1 only lasts a year during which the full complexity of the project is realised and he's ritually sacrificed
PM no.2 gets a couple of years where expectations are realistic and in which he works his bollox off and turns things around
PM no.3 breezes in and collects the plaudits
 
He's pretty much unemployable isn't he?

No clubs fans would be anything less than shitting themselves if he was appointed manager of their club.
 
Erebus said:
lost the dressing room, produced dire football and was unable to see that anything he did was wrong.
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With the dressing room, it goes to show how much of an influence players now have. More so the seniors in the squad, which at the time were Rio,Vidic,Evra & Giggs. Once Moyes lost that bunch, it was an uphill battle. Like, if the majority team isn't willing to help you out, like under Fergie, then they won't show the same level of commitment to the cause. It's why if Moyes had time to build his own team, bringing in his own players, they would come to respect him, than Fergie, who they haven't been managed under. The current crop have been under Fergie for like 5+years,s some even more. No surprise that it's looking Rosy for LvG as the only big influence left now is Rooney, who he seems to be getting on well with. This can only be positive, since a happy Rooney is a good Rooney.

With the dire football comment, yes at times we were bad, but it's the same problems of being over run in midfield by teams lower than us in the table, eg Newcastle & Southampton. However, can you remember any positive performances from last season under Moyes? I would like to know the games.

I think the reason of him swapping the team around was that he was under the impression he'll get time here. This is no surprise. We're United, we desire for stability. Fergie went on about this, giving him backing. The comments from the squad has been of support and backing so I guess Moyes took his time here.

Erebus said:
I know there's a public facade of support for him at the moment, but I'm not sure how long it will last in the fusilade of revelations that will come out as players and others start revealing things.
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I think it'll depend where the revelation comes from, ie Rio who obviously was against Moyes. The main reason why the majority of fans, that I know of here in my area, stayed with Moyes until the end was the perception of stability, we didn't sack managers. With that idea gone, we're a proper modern club. Stability is dead. Atleast it was a positive wake up call.
 
Dans said:
He's pretty much unemployable isn't he?

No clubs fans would be anything less than shitting themselves if he was appointed manager of their club.
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I don't think so pal, before his time here at United, he was highly regarded in England. I spoke to a friend of mine who was brought over by Moyes during at Everton and he said he's still a good, hard working coach, but United didn't work out for him.
 
Plenty of Everton fans don't regard him at all.

He's been exposed. He's not all that. He's ruined what reputation he had and it'll be a brave, desperate or small club who gives him his next job. You can work hard all you like, but if you don't work efficiently and creatively, it'll count for not a lot.
 
Dans said:
Plenty of Everton fans don't regard him at all.

He's been exposed. He's not all that. He's ruined what reputation he had and it'll be a brave, desperate or small club who gives him his next job. You can work hard all you like, but if you don't work efficiently and creatively, it'll count for not a lot.
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I think the 2009 FA cup final and 2012 FA cup semi final showed Moyes up as a bottler of the big games, and those two games were the biggest in Everton's history since the 95 final, and that may have changed their views on him.
 
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Dans said:
He's pretty much unemployable isn't he?

No clubs fans would be anything less than shitting themselves if he was appointed manager of their club.
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For a top level team, yes. However someone like West Ham or Crystal Palace would be a great match for Moyes and Club.
 
Getsme said:
For a top level team, yes. However someone like West Ham or Crystal Palace would be a great match for Moyes and Club.
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I thot WH wanted someone who didn't play hoof and cross?
 
Midnight1811 said:
Is that what we played in the CL? Hoof ball? I know about the crossing with the wingers.
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We consistently played the cross field long diagonal ball to the wingers. It wasn't hoof at at Crouch, but still lots of long hoofs
 
Cal? said:
Well, someone preferred Fellaini at roughly the same price.
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Didn't Moyes say that Fellaini was like the last restort, had things not messed up? This was in his weekly column for the Sunday Times I think. Makes sense since his clause of 23.5mil ran out a month before we bought him? Also in regards to the fee, didn't Fellaini end up losing his loyalty bonus (whatever that even means) of 4m, which went towards the transfer fee of 27.5m? So technically is he bought for 23.5m, not the 27.5m quoted?
 
Midnight1811 said:
Didn't Moyes say that Fellaini was like the last restort, had things not messed up? This was in his weekly column for the Sunday Times I think. Makes sense since his clause of 23.5mil ran out a month before we bought him? Also in regards to the fee, didn't Fellaini end up losing his loyalty bonus (whatever that even means) of 4m, which went towards the transfer fee of 27.5m? So technically is he bought for 23.5m, not the 27.5m quoted?
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It still cost United 27.5m whether Mop head lost his bonus or not, Everton confirmed that United paid them 27m and a bonus wasn't part of the fee. He lost the bonus because he put in a transfer request if i remember correctly.

fecking idiotic line of thinking from Moyes that he delayed signing Fellaini because he didn't want him to be his 'first signing' like it fecking matters what order people are signed in. That decision cost United millions which became a common theme through out the season. Wanker probably cost the club £50-80m.
 
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