Almost as good as Mike Smalling.
Hazard, where does he rank among the best in the world
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Goals and stats are important in this discussion and that's why i've added them. It's up to people to evaluate players anyway they like, i never said it's a stats competition, and i'm not using stats only to form my opinion.
Yes but what you fail to highlight are things that balance the equation in the other direction, like the fact De Bruyne is not playing for a top team and Hazard is, in a team which would allow him to excel and show his talents more than De Bruyne.
Also doing it for longer doesn't mean he is better, it means he is more proven. Time will tell who is the better player.
So saying hes done far less, actually it depends how you qualify it, is winning the EPL with Chelsea last season a bigger achievement than the impact De Bruyne had on Wolfsburg last season? I don't think that is an open and shut case, and it is difficult to qualify IMO
Like I said I'm not saying he is better than Hazard, I just don't think its an open and shut case that Hazard is better, we will have to wait and see IMO.
Also the bit about the PL being better, well thats another story all together.
Where I can compare the two is when I see them both playing for the national team, and like I said De Bruyne has impressed me more when I've been watching.
His manager. Shocking stuff.
People really don't rate Neymar enough in here. He is the only player that will get close to the numbers Messi and Ronaldo post every year.
Think Suarez is probably up there too but those you mention are at least one shelf up from Hazard (that diving cnut)
EDIT: Saw Hazard's younger brother playing a couple of times for Monchenglabach last season and think he'll be just as good … worth a pop?
De Bruyne is fantastic but Hazard clearly a step above.
I know Neymar has plenty of goals but if I had to pick one player for United it would be Hazard. Neymar is more productive but Hazard is the better dribbler and has better close control. Sanchez is not in the same league.
Its actually insase how underrated his is. I guess its because he plays for Barca so hes not REALLY that good, its just his team...
When discussing who is better - and when you picked up on the exact phrase "has done far less" - then I think taking time period into account is not only desirable its absolutely necessary. De Bruyne has done far less than Hazard.
The PL is better than the Bundesliga, it's not a different story.
Chelsea play a much more pragmatic style than Wolfsburg and they scored less goals per game than Wolfsburg.
De Bruyne is not the 6th best player in the world.
Hazard better than Neymar? That's insane. Top 20 trending top 10 sounds about right.
Possibly Ibra?
But yeah, personally, and as I said before - these things are extremely subjective, I'd have him in tier 2, but I can understand those saying maybe tier 3 because Hazard hasn't exactly lit up the UCL or international football.
Tier 3 would probably contain the likes of Pogba/Verratti etc as well.
I don't think there is much between Neymar and Hazard in terms of dribbling. His dribbling is better than Sanchez, but tbh Sanchez is a better goalscorer. I think they all have similar and differing qualities. I don't see how anyone can say Sanchez isn't in the same league. Maybe Hazard is better, but hes not THAT much better IMO
What am i reading? Hazard isn't in Neymar's league, not at all. He see's more of the ball in Chelsea than he would Barca, yet Neymar stat's alone tell the story.
Never said he was, sooooo yeah ok.
With regards to time, I don't think just because someone has been at a higher level than someone else for longer it makes them a better player. To me they are more proven, but better no, maybe they are, maybe they're not time will tell. Just my opinion, when I saw Messi play for Barca in his first season I already knew he was a better player than some who had been playing for years, but he had to play a few more seasons to proove that. He was ALWAYS better, just had to proove it over time.
Its actually insase how underrated his is. I guess its because he plays for Barca so hes not REALLY that good, its just his team...
Yeah he's not that good. If he continues like this for a few years, then sure. It's Messi, then Suarez, then Neymar.
Neymar isn't inferior to hazard in any way. He is the better dribbler and both have great close control. Neymar is more capable of producing game changing moments than Hazard while being much more productive and tough to contain. Contender for the 3rd best player in the world alongside the like of Suarez, Robben etc.
Possibly, was torn between putting ibra in tier 2 or 3. I wouldn't have either of Pogba or verratti in the 3rd tier. They are very good considering their age but their current level gets overrated.
Well that was what my post was contending so if you're challenging it then that's how it comes across.
Yes, time is about proof, as is the phrase "has done far less". De Bruyne has done far less than Hazard (not to mention Muller, Robben and a couple others that the OP bizarrely lists De Bruyne ahead of) and would need to repeat his extraordinary season, in the CL or in a better domestic league, before anyone could sanely consider him to be one of the best. It'd be like putting Harry Kane in the top 6 in the world.
Hazard is similar to Sanchez's tier. A bit below Suarez and Neymar. Sterling shouldn't even be in this discussion. Also Muller didn't actually have that great a year, his stats are good but that's part of his game.
Yep, can agree with that. Players tend to get rated way too quickly and given "legendary" status fairly easily these days.
But yeah, I'm a massive Verratti fan
... Pogba, not so much tbh.I'd probably have Reus in tier 3 in that case as well? But yeah, very subjective. Like Muller for instance, fantastic footballer but I'd not have him with Suarez and Robben etc...but I think a vast majority would disagree with me there, which means I'm probably wrong.
Not in the top ten, bubbling under I'd say.
Yep, can agree with that. Players tend to get rated way too quickly and given "legendary" status fairly easily these days.
But yeah, I'm a massive Verratti fan
I'd probably have Reus in tier 3 in that case as well? But yeah, very subjective. Like Muller for instance, fantastic footballer but I'd not have him with Suarez and Robben etc...but I think a vast majority would disagree with me there, which means I'm probably wrong.
I prefer Verratti too Pogba too. Atm, he's the better CM whereas Pogba is the more eye catching one I feel.
Muller and Reus both divide opinions so that's fair enough. I think both of them are absolutely brilliant but can understand if you feel they should be in tier 3.
Hazards a supreme footballer and focussing on his stats his unfair.
Hazard is a fantastic player but I wouldn't even put him in top 10 outfield players
Ronaldo
Messi
Suarez
Neymar
Robben
Aguero
Sanchez
Lahm
Muller
David silva
That's my top 10 and there's no place for hazard.
Ronaldo
Messi
Suarez
Neymar
Robben
Aguero
Sanchez
Lahm
Muller
David silva
That's my top 10 and there's no place for hazard.
I think it will probably be one of Reus/Hazard Madrid will be in for next, when/if one of Bale/Ronaldo moves on.
So why don't his stats reflect that?
Yup.
No I highlighted something specific you said, and said I wasn't sure about it and asked you to qualify it.
I also said I don't think its a given Hazard is better, and that was it.
Lets just let it go now, as I've never said De Bruyne is one of the best so your arguement is just futile.
Also yes that means I don't rate Hazard in the top 10 either.
Disagree. Hazard's dribbling and close control is better than Neymar's for me.
As for Hazard's stats, they don't tell the entire story for his contribution to Chelsea. On the other hand, they don't entirely lie either. It does show that his finishing is certainly something he needs to improve upon. His dribbling creates many goals for Chelsea though which don't reflect in his assists stat.
I agree with that.
EDIT: For me there is something about watching Hazard that makes me think he plays within himself. Doesn't go for the kill, he'll get the ball on the break can probably beat the defender and go on and score/make a goal, but he'd rather slow the game down etc.
Maybe its Chelsea and Mou, or maybe its just him, but I feel like he needs to take it up a few gears, which I fully think he is capable of.
I just don't think he has that killer instict, I'm not saying he is not a match winner, because he clearly is.
some people are obsessed with stats too much, he's easily top10 in the world. He has it's role in team like Chelsea where he needs to track back too unlike Neymar and other superstars. Not saying he's better than Neymar who looks the most promising player from all the players to reach the baloon d'oor in post Messi-Ronaldo era.
However I think it's safe to say Hazard is currently better than Nani
However I think it's safe to say Hazard is currently better than Nani
I can see where you are coming from and I kinda agree. He needs to be more ruthless in front of goal but I can't fault his approach play which is exquisite.
He needs to be scoring 25 a season in all competitions before he can be considered one of the best 5-10 players in the world. For instance David Silva had a better strike rate last season, without even taking City's penalties.
At the moment I'd put him alongside Silva/Sanchez as one of the best 5 players in the Premier League, but not one of the best 10 in the world.
At the moment I'd put him alongside Silva/Sanchez as one of the best 5 players in the Premier League, but not one of the best 10 in the world.
You can't compare him with Neymar or Robben yet. Both rack up incredible goalscoring records and both have pedigree on the international stage and European stage scoring goals in Champions League finals as well as impressing in the latter stages of World Cups.
Hazard had an excellent season for Chelsea and is clearly immensely talented, so could potentially reach those heights. He has to become more prolific though, as despite the threat he poses, in the absence of Costa then Chelsea need more from him in terms of goalscoring. He really should have buried that chance against Arsenal for example.
As for comparisons with Aguero and Sanchez. I prefer the former, as he is legitimately one of the worlds very best forwards and I think there's a few wide forwards/wingers superior to Hazard. It's marginal between Hazard and Sanchez though. Sanchez is a bigger goal threat, more proficient in front of goal and from range, while also having more aggressiveness/tenacity to his game and a greater engine. Hazard is the superior dribbler though and more creative, he can beat players absolutely effortlessly and is technically above Sanchez IMO.
Hazard had an excellent season for Chelsea and is clearly immensely talented, so could potentially reach those heights. He has to become more prolific though, as despite the threat he poses, in the absence of Costa then Chelsea need more from him in terms of goalscoring. He really should have buried that chance against Arsenal for example.
As for comparisons with Aguero and Sanchez. I prefer the former, as he is legitimately one of the worlds very best forwards and I think there's a few wide forwards/wingers superior to Hazard. It's marginal between Hazard and Sanchez though. Sanchez is a bigger goal threat, more proficient in front of goal and from range, while also having more aggressiveness/tenacity to his game and a greater engine. Hazard is the superior dribbler though and more creative, he can beat players absolutely effortlessly and is technically above Sanchez IMO.
Obviously, he could be number one, if he wanted to be.
Here's some more stats for you.
http://www.espnfc.us/blog/five-aside/77/post/2418436/does-hazard-compare-to-messi-and-ronaldo
Well quite obviously. Nani is miles away from the top ten.
Best player in the league by some distance for me and will probably have to carry Chelsea this season if Costa spends too long out. Wouldn't look out of place in the Barce team, but I think he will be destined for Madrid to replace Bale / Ronaldo.
Real shame we never got him, would have made a massive difference for us.
Real shame we never got him, would have made a massive difference for us.
As for this stuff about attacking midfielders needing to score 25 goals, its just insanity. Messi and Ronaldo have sent you all insane.
Agreed