Hazard, where does he rank among the best in the world

[United22]

Glad to have opened your eyes.

He almost scored 40 goals last season, this is a number that even most world class strikers fail to achieve most of the time. It isn't all about stats but Neymar has been too good of a goalscorer to be put below Hazard . Of course, I expect to be met with one or more of the "La Liga is an easy league", "He plays with Messi" or "He is a tap in merchant" comments also

 

[Revan]

I thought we were all supposed to care only about goal/assist stats? Muller has never scored more than 13 league goals for Bayern, surely that means he's utterly worthless? I am so confused!

Since when UCL goals does not matter.

Muller is so much better than Hazard that it isn't even close. Hazard is better in dribbling but in everything else Muller is better.

Anyway, we can continue discussing it when finally Hazard scores an important goal or two.

 

[Revan]

He almost scored 40 goals last season, this is a number that even most world class strikers fail to achieve most of the time. It isn't all about stats but Neymar has been too good of a goalscorer to be put below Hazard . Of course, I expect to be met with one or more of the "La Liga is an easy league", "He plays with Messi" or "He is a tap in merchant" comments also

Neymar was easily the third best player in the world last season.

I quite disliked him but last season he was brilliant.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Since when UCL goals does not matter.

Muller is so much better than Hazard that it isn't even close. Hazard is better in dribbling but in everything else Muller is better.

Anyway, we can continue discussing it when finally Hazard scores an important goal or two.

Now whos deluded, this thread has gone a bit silly now.

 

[prarek]

He's actually got three younger brothers (Thorgan, Kylian and Ethan). Kylian I think plays in Belgium and Ethan is at some French sides youth setup.

Hazard's dad and mum were also both players. Apparently his mum was still playing when preggers with Eden.

It must run in the genes then. Not many players have both footballer parents. Wouldn't mind us going for the younger ones as it seems like the second youngest is already claimed by Chelsea. But then they'd probably want to join City's academy. Depressing we don't even have the best academy in Manchester anymore.

 

[Revan]

Now whos deluded, this thread has gone a bit silly now.

MUller has been one of the best players in the world for more than 5 seasons now, and is the ultimate big match player for both the club and his country.

Hazard is a very good player (probably even in top 10) but at least a level below Muller. Has he scored yet in knock outs of UCL? Which is his most important goal he ever scored? How Fellaini, let alone De Bruyne constantly outshines him for Belgium?

 

[Carl]

He almost scored 40 goals last season, this is a number that even most world class strikers fail to achieve most of the time. It isn't all about stats but Neymar has been too good of a goalscorer to be put below Hazard . Of course, I expect to be met with one or more of the "La Liga is an easy league", "He plays with Messi" or "He is a tap in merchant" comments also

Horses for courses, pal.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

MUller has been one of the best players in the world for more than 5 seasons now, and is the ultimate big match player for both the club and his country.

Hazard is a very good player (probably even in top 10) but at least a level below Muller. Has he scored yet in knock outs of UCL? Which is his most important goal he ever scored? How Fellaini, let alone De Bruyne constantly outshines him for Belgium?

Why is everything about who scored and when? Not everything is about goals, its what he does in the middle/front of the field that makes him better, taking players out, breaking through tight defences and outpacing people. He played a blinder vs City away in the 0-1 win a year and a bit ago, he regularly torments United and Arsenal if we are talking about bigger games. Hes certainly on the same level as Muller, I just prefer his dribbling technique. To say that Muller is on another level.. which indicates Hazard is several levels below the top is wrong.

 

[Kentonio]

This thread gives me a crazy sense of deja vu..

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eden-hazard.354410/page-37

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Come on now Bob, I know you're a Liverpool supporter but let's not descend to the level of your hub cap stealing fellow Liverpudlians eh? Out of curiosity, who would you say was above him last season. Given that he won all the individual awards and all that.

No one was above him in England. I've already said he was deserving of the award.

Like I said, that doesn't make him sensational. He had a very good season with little competition, that's all.

Agüero number 1 overall, if it wasn't obvious.

 

[thepolice123]

Aguero is definitely Suarez and Neymar's level. Hazard a level below.

 

[VorZakone]

I rate Neymar more highly than Hazard. Neymar has done much better in the CL knock-out stages and internationally he's done so much more for Brazil than Hazard has done for Belgium at the moment. Hazard hasn't done anything of note in the CL for 3 CL seasons in a row now IMO. Might be because of Chelsea's defensive setups but the point still stands because when he had the ball he wasn't exactly litting it up anyway. The stats are heavily in Neymar's favour as well for 14/15 so overall Neymar is a better player I feel.

I'd say Hazard and Sanchez are below Suarez/Neymar.

 

[eggwithsideburns]

I rank him right up there. He has the individual brilliance to turn a match in his teams favor but is also a great team player and does his fair share of defensive work too. He is one of those players you only need to watch him on the ball for 10 seconds and you can tell he is class. For me only Messi is ahead of him in terms of dribbling and ball control. Chelsea are very lucky to have him in their team.

 

[Kentonio]

A guy from the new users forum, Buffer, sent this. Crazy stat.

 

[VorZakone]

A guy from the new users forum, Buffer, sent this. Crazy stat.

Confirms to me that he runs too much with the ball and should pass it sooner. There have been quite some moments in which he had a very good dribble dragging out 3 oppo-players to him but failed to give an incisive pass.

 

[Revan]

Why is everything about who scored and when? Not everything is about goals, its what he does in the middle/front of the field that makes him better, taking players out, breaking through tight defences and outpacing people. He played a blinder vs City away in the 0-1 win a year and a bit ago, he regularly torments United and Arsenal if we are talking about bigger games. Hes certainly on the same level as Muller, I just prefer his dribbling technique. To say that Muller is on another level.. which indicates Hazard is several levels below the top is wrong.

It is not everything, but it is important. Scoring important goals that win important matches.

The fact that you mention as his best game, a game a year ago against City or matches against top English teams which are awful compared to European teams, speaks for itself. Where is Hazard in UCL? Against top sides like Atletico or PSG.

Muller has been doing for a long time in the highest level for both club and country, Hazard hasn't.

 

[Kentonio]

The fact that you mention as his best game, a game a year ago against City or matches against top English teams which are awful compared to European teams, speaks for itself. Where is Hazard in UCL? Against top sides like Atletico or PSG.

Whoah there tiger! The likes of City, Arsenal and United are now supposedly awful and far below the likes of PSG and Atletico? Is that supposed to be a joke?

 

[Revan]

Whoah there tiger! The likes of City, Arsenal and United are now supposedly awful and far below the likes of PSG and Atletico? Is that supposed to be a joke?

Yes. When is the last time Arsenal/City passed the first KO stage? I guess that not even Arsenal fans remember when that happened, while City has never done it so. United wasn't even in UCL last season.

Btw, what happened the last time Chelsea - who won the league extremely easy - played PSG or Atletico?

 

[ItsEssexRob]

Whoah there tiger! The likes of City, Arsenal and United are now supposedly awful and far below the likes of PSG and Atletico? Is that supposed to be a joke?

To be fair right now Atletico are certainly better than United Arsenal and City. PSG it depends on their day, i;d say they are on par with our top teams. I'd expect us to beat them over a set of games however.

 

[Kentonio]

Yes. When is the last time Arsenal/City passed the first KO stage? I guess that not even Arsenal fans remember when that happened, while City has never done it so. United wasn't even in UCL last season.

Btw, what happened the last time Chelsea - who won the league extremely easy - played PSG or Atletico?

Tight games lost by tight margins. English teams have not had a great couple of years in Europe, but its a knockout competition. It doesn't mean English football is somehow miles below the level of bloody PSG and Atletico for crying out loud.

 

[Revan]

Tight games lost by tight margins. English teams have not had a great couple of years in Europe, but its a knockout competition. It doesn't mean English football is somehow miles below the level of bloody PSG and Atletico for crying out loud.

Chelsea have been the best English team and still lost against Atletico/PSG who in turn aren't in the level of Madrid, Barca or Bayern. Each of those threclubs in the last 5 years has done better in UCL than all Ebglish clubs combined.

English clubs have been shit on UCL for quite more than a couple of years. It is the reason why 5 years ago, EPL was comfortbaly in first position in UEFA coefficients, while now are in third position, 20 points below Spain.

Anyway... Hazard can be compared with the top players (Neymar, Muller, Suarez etc) when he proves himself in the top competition. Being the best player in a very weak EPL when the top team is significantly weaker than European top teams won't make the cut.

 

[Revan]

To be fair right now Atletico are certainly better than United Arsenal and City. PSG it depends on their day, i;d say they are on par with our top teams. I'd expect us to beat them over a set of games however.

You may expect it, but both those teams eliminated you the last time you played them (on PSG case being unjustly without their main man for 90 minutes).

 

[Orc]

1) Messi
2) CR7
3) Suarez
4) Neymar
5) Hazard
6) Agüero
7) Ibra
8) Robben
9) Sanchez
10) Bale

Neymar and Hazard are even for me in terms of quality but I put Neymar ahead on my list because of the season he just had. Agüero would be ahead of both if he ever remained fit for a whole season.

 

[Skills]

He's around the same level as Sanchez, Silva and Reus. Level below Aguero, Suarez, fit Robben and possibly Neymar.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

You may expect it, but both those teams eliminated you the last time you played them (on PSG case being unjustly without their main man for 90 minutes).

They did but anyone can eliminate anyone on a given game. I would expect us to beat them the majority of times over a fair set of say 10 games.

( the last 5 games between us and PSG are W 2 D 2 L 1)

 

[Kentonio]

Anyway... Hazard can be compared with the top players (Neymar, Muller, Suarez etc) when he proves himself in the top competition. Being the best player in a very weak EPL when the top team is significantly weaker than European top teams won't make the cut.

We'll have to just disagree. I give that no more relevance than I give the people who say Messi isn't the best because he's never done it at the world cup. I care about the games the players play week in week out, not the knockout games that can be lost in any one of a million ways. As for a 'very weak EPL' that's just laughable, especially when you're talking about the likes of Spain with their 2-3 good clubs and rest of the league full of crap.

 

[Revan]

We'll have to just disagree. I give that no more relevance than I give the people who say Messi isn't the best because he's never done it at the world cup. I care about the games the players play week in week out, not the knockout games that can be lost in any one of a million ways. As for a 'very weak EPL' that's just laughable, especially when you're talking about the likes of Spain with their 2-3 good clubs and rest of the league full of crap.

Why then the second level Spanish teams defeat always second level English teams when they face each other in Europa.

EPL is the weakest EPL I have seen since following football. Next year we'll probably lose the fourth spot and fall behind the Italy, but people will still claim that EPL is the strongest and other leagues are shit.

Messi has done it in world cup. He captained and leaded Argentina to world cup final.

I think (and always said so) that a player to be considered absolute elite, he needs to prove himself at the absolute top competition. Hazard so far falls short at that. Being best/second best player in the third (can be argued to be second) strongest league in the world is fine, but that doesn't make him a top 5 player. It could be argued however that he is a top 10 player (he is definitely a top 10 attacking player though).

 

[AllezLesDiables]

Brilliant player who will be looked upon more favorably with reverence once his career is finished.

3x young player of the year and 3x player of the year (2 of each in Ligue 1 and one of each in the PL)

 

[Moby]

Hasn't Hazard won most fouls in Europe last season or something?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

It is not everything, but it is important. Scoring important goals that win important matches.

The fact that you mention as his best game, a game a year ago against City or matches against top English teams which are awful compared to European teams, speaks for itself. Where is Hazard in UCL? Against top sides like Atletico or PSG.

Muller has been doing for a long time in the highest level for both club and country, Hazard hasn't.

Against those teams he's played as a second left back because his manager is a coward.

 

[sammsky1]

The player I most regret not signing, in the recent past. We were heavily linked with him and I knew he would prove to be the real deal.

Best player in the PL right now IMO and 3rd best in the world in club football after Messi and Ronaldo.

And once the above 2 retire or fade in 2-3 seasons time, he will fight it out with Pogba for the Ballon d'or.

 

[VorZakone]

The player I most regret not signing, in the recent past. We were heavily linked with him and I knew he would prove to be the real deal.

Best player in the PL right now IMO and 3rd best in the world in club football after Messi and Ronaldo.

And once the above 2 retire or fade in 2-3 seasons time, he will fight it out with Pogba for the Ballon d'or.

Even better than Suarez? Robben?

 

[sammsky1]

Even better than Suarez? Robben?

Personal opinion : yes I think so. He has everything and still even more potential to fulfil.

I think Batcelona and Munich would swap both those players for Hazard at a heartbeat.

Likewise I don't think mourinho would take either in place of Hazard.

 

[bucky]

1) Messi
2) CR7
3) Suarez
4) Neymar
5) Hazard
6) Agüero
7) Ibra
8) Robben
9) Sanchez
10) Bale

Neymar and Hazard are even for me in terms of quality but I put Neymar ahead on my list because of the season he just had. Agüero would be ahead of both if he ever remained fit for a whole season.

You should watch Robben more often, he's better than that. Probably just behind Messi and Ronaldo.

 

[Sam]

He's fecking brilliant in all honesty. He's right up there in that group behind Messi/Ronaldo. In with the likes of Neymar/Suarez/Aguero/Sanchez etc etc

 

[VorZakone]

Personal opinion : yes I think so. He has everything and still even more potential to fulfil.

I think Batcelona and Munich would swap both those players for Hazard at a heartbeat.

Likewise I don't think mourinho would take either in place of Hazard.

At this moment I don't find Hazard to be better than Suarez. Maybe in 2-3 years, definitely not now. Suarez carried that Liverpool team to 2nd place with 31 goals and 13 assists, Hazard hasn't had a better season yet than Suarez' 13/14 season.

 

[Varun]

I don't want to sound like a wind-up mate but can only post my honest opinion:

I think he's too unpredictable, almost to the point of being crazy. Some of the stuff he does makes neutrals laugh.. he overrates himself, treats his players like school children and tries to be overly domineering. He never seems to have a rapport with many of his players and often falls out with them. He makes confusing selections and perseveres with a system even if it appears to be broken.

I think United fans will lose patience this season and force him out.

There's no WUM in there. I agree with parts of it and don't with some. He is arrogant though and treats not just his players but also the media etc as if he's educating them on football. Also, he is strict about his demands. He gets on really really well with some players and has his fall out with some.

A manager like him needs absolute control and if he doesn't get that, a fall out is inevitable. We are giving him that though and our squad and ethos being as it is, a player that falls out will end up leaving unless the entire team turns against him which I can't see happening.

I think he'l be here till end of his 3rd yr. Anything after that will depend on what we have won till then.

People are looking too much at stats. Neymar's stats are padded up by playing with one of the best passers of all time and Suarez. A 3rd of his goals have been set up by Messi alone. Hazard doesn't really have that luxury.

Hazard has the kind of dribbling ability that's only exceeded by Messi (and perhaps Robben although that would be close). That added to his excellent one touch play close to the box seals it for me. Muller is good and effective but he doesn't have the kind of natural talent has Hazard. Hazard is an absolute nightmare to play against. Reus is not even close imo.

I don't care much about stats when comparing him to Neymar or Suarez as their number obviously gets inflated playing for Barca.

I just don't see what Hazard is better than Neymar at. On the contrary, Neymar is more likely to produce a magic moment and is the better dribbler in my book. Suarez too.

Muller and Reus always split opinions here so won't get into that.

 

[Moby]

I just don't see what Hazard is better than Neymar at.

Vision, awareness of defenders around him as well as his teammates, ability to create space for others, creativity and unpredictability of his passes, timing of his passes. He's a great dribbler as well, the fact he's drawn more fouls than anyone in Europe tells us how difficult defenders find to stop him.

If I had to draw a parallel I'd say he reminds me of Pavel Nedved.

 

[Ødegaard]

Messi
Ronaldo
Suarez
Neymar
Robben
Muller
Hazard

 

[Varun]

Vision, awareness of defenders around him as well as his teammates, ability to create space for others, creativity and unpredictability of his passes, timing of his passes. He's a great dribbler as well, the fact he's drawn more fouls than anyone in Europe tells us how difficult defenders find to stop him.

If I had to draw a parallel I'd say he reminds me of Pavel Nedved.

I don't disagree that he's good at all that you mentioned, just not better than Neymar at it. Passing probably but not the rest.

The fact that he drew the most fouls indicate how much Chelsea play through him. Not because he's a better dribbler than Messi or Neymar.