Or not bump it at all. Its all the same really. Ronaldo scores 4 against Espanyol/Some other lower side and everybody is posting how he is great and how great he is. Then when he doesn't score or plays poorly against a better side, people are posting how he is overrated, his stats are misleading and he isn't as good as any of Messi/Neymar/Suarez. Its all the same really.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Performances (wums will be thread banned)
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I have to disagree. I firmly believe Real's gameplay is too focused on Ronaldo. He's a legendary goalscorer, nobody will deny that. But in tight matches when Real's other players can't provide the service anymore he simply doesn't do enough to turn it around. It's not solely his fault that Real has a lack of silverware since he joined them but their gameplay of getting it to Ronaldo can only get them so far if he doesn't put away his ego once in a while.
It's a fecking forum. What else do you expect?
Just the same crap being said each time. We get it already, Ronaldo scores lots of goals but is pretty ineffective when the going gets tough.
I see what you're saying but it's just the nature of a forum. You can't expect a player as popular as Ronaldo scoring 4 goals and not see it mentioned anywhere on here.
Don't read then.
Fair enough. Just a bit depressing really. Too many people love/hate him and are obsessed with either bigging him up or putting him down.
I personally think with Ronaldo he's at this point the best goalscorer potentially in the history of the game.
You can say what you like about 'Phenomenon' Ronaldo (R9) about how he was probably the most naturally talented player in the last 20 years, you can say what you like about George Best being probably the most talented player there has been. WIth Cristiano he is the best goalscorer and I think if you described the best goalscorer physically it would be him.
He is branded selfish at times and true, but many of the great goalscorers were, Pelé isn't considered the king of football for his passing it was for his flair and goalscoring. He's turned 31 now he's got learnt to be clinical rather than run at players as he did 5 a few years ago but he's kept his level so high for nearing a decade now.
Cristiano is a GOAT.
The only thing against Ronaldo you can say at this point is he's in a generation of players that happens to have probably THE GOAT in Messi who is just different class.
We're fortunate that people witnessed Pelé rise in 1958 in Sweden, then recently Maradona staking his claim to the throne in 1986. Now we get to watch arguably their successors play week in week out breaking records people argued about Maradona and Pelé now people argue about Messi and Ronaldo and they're still playing.
In regards to right now, I'd say Ronaldo is let down by his team at times there's not really much in the way of match winners in that squad, which maybe Ronaldo is demanding of the ball and maybe Balague was right doing a little less to allow others to grow. Somewhat as Messi is now dribbling less and passing more when he can still dribble past 4-5-6 players, yet still score a lot of goals but allowing others to share the burden and compete on more than just one front (last years treble,and this years form shows that).
I think Ronaldo has 2-3 peak years left barring any major injuries a move to somewhere like France would help I don't see Madrid being the best option in the coming years not only due to Ronaldo but also the politics surrounding them and Perez ideologies has really starved the club of trophies.
You can say what you like about 'Phenomenon' Ronaldo (R9) about how he was probably the most naturally talented player in the last 20 years, you can say what you like about George Best being probably the most talented player there has been. WIth Cristiano he is the best goalscorer and I think if you described the best goalscorer physically it would be him.
He is branded selfish at times and true, but many of the great goalscorers were, Pelé isn't considered the king of football for his passing it was for his flair and goalscoring. He's turned 31 now he's got learnt to be clinical rather than run at players as he did 5 a few years ago but he's kept his level so high for nearing a decade now.
Cristiano is a GOAT.
The only thing against Ronaldo you can say at this point is he's in a generation of players that happens to have probably THE GOAT in Messi who is just different class.
We're fortunate that people witnessed Pelé rise in 1958 in Sweden, then recently Maradona staking his claim to the throne in 1986. Now we get to watch arguably their successors play week in week out breaking records people argued about Maradona and Pelé now people argue about Messi and Ronaldo and they're still playing.
In regards to right now, I'd say Ronaldo is let down by his team at times there's not really much in the way of match winners in that squad, which maybe Ronaldo is demanding of the ball and maybe Balague was right doing a little less to allow others to grow. Somewhat as Messi is now dribbling less and passing more when he can still dribble past 4-5-6 players, yet still score a lot of goals but allowing others to share the burden and compete on more than just one front (last years treble,and this years form shows that).
I think Ronaldo has 2-3 peak years left barring any major injuries a move to somewhere like France would help I don't see Madrid being the best option in the coming years not only due to Ronaldo but also the politics surrounding them and Perez ideologies has really starved the club of trophies.
Its a football forum.. what do you want people to say?
Nobody forces you to keep clicking on the thread. Just stop reading it.
Looks like he's gona hit 50 goals against this season. Absolutely ridiculous.
You have to appreciate his goalscoring record. It's ridiculously good. I'm not a fan of him in truth and can often be biased against him ultimately goals are what's important and he gets a bucket load if them. There comes a time when it's hard to put up a coherent argument against someone who bangs in 50 goals a season. Both he and Madrid are somewhat unlucky that this has coincided with the prime of the greatest player to ever play.
If he keeps this up, then he's a show in for 2nd place behind Messi in the all time list
If he keeps this up, then he's a show in for 2nd place behind Messi in the all time list
4 Viva notifications for @SirAF and counting
Booyah! (Was working)
I want him back asap
To put things in perspective, Pele managed to score 50+ goals only two seasons in a row (while playng in Campeonato Paulista which had some quality teams and some great players in it but hardly was the best league in the world). If Ronaldo scores another 11 goals this season, he will have scored 50+ goals six fecking seasons in a row. Absolutely ridiculous stat.
Lad made a rod for his own back, with his consuming desire to get on the scoresheet all these years. Now that his goals against the better teams are drying up, any goal is greeted with a "can't do it against Barleticavillarealbo".
It seems weird saying this, but if Ronaldo is going to completely become a poacher, he needs to become ultraclinical against the best teams. Also, Real are going to have to solidify in midfield to compensate for him being up top.
It seems weird saying this, but if Ronaldo is going to completely become a poacher, he needs to become ultraclinical against the best teams. Also, Real are going to have to solidify in midfield to compensate for him being up top.
Hardly surprising given that Pelé also only once in his entire career had two seasons in a row where he appeared in more than 40 club games.
To put your perspective into perspective... if you take 2009-15 as Cristiano's goalscoring peak (not counting the current season as it's ongoing) he averages 50 apps and 52 goals per season at club level over those 6 years. Do the same for Pelé's goalscoring peak of 1957-66 and you arrive at an average of 39 apps and 51 goals per season at club level over those 9 years.
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Much appreciated, Skorenzy. Could you add a little bit more detail about the average gpg ratio in Campeonato Paulista? Was it higher than in the current La Liga and is Santos's dominance comparable to Madrid's? Such stats would put things in even better perspecive.
Edit: Pele's record in Copa Libertadores is 17 goals in 15 games, i.e. the gpg ratio is similar to Ronaldo's for Madrid in the CL - 74 goals in 70 games.
Edit: Pele's record in Copa Libertadores is 17 goals in 15 games, i.e. the gpg ratio is similar to Ronaldo's for Madrid in the CL - 74 goals in 70 games.
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The greatest ever goalscorer, no doubt about that.
I think the hardworking aspect of Cristianos game and Messi's are a testament to them, if anybody on this board or on this earth applied themselves are hard as these two did, they'd be pioneers in their field.
Ronaldo and Messi will go down as the two GOATs defining an era where the World Cup is no longer a benchmark because club-level is now the benchmark, Messi the greatest player in history, Ronaldo the greatest goalscorer both having their place in a starting XI for any fan as it's a team game.
I feel sorry for both though I think once they retire everything from that point is referring back to the glory days, those two are born to play football so they have another 40-50 years from that point like "I wish I was young again to play." I really need to enjoy the remainder of their careers to the fullest potential.
Frankly, it's too much of a bother to look it all up (I'd done some research into it a while back) - basically the average gpg was quite a lot higher (broadly, between 3 and 3.5 whereas nowadays it's usually between 2.5 and 3) - but if you compare to other goalscorers in the league he was the only one getting those kinda numbers with that type of consistency, of course.
The same (re: average gpg) is true for other goalscoring legends of that era: Eusébio, Puskás, Di Stéfano, etc.
That is then again somewhat offset by the greater discrepancies in wealth and quality of players of the top clubs nowadays whereas it was more spread out in the past (though money has always talked in football of course and past teams have also engaged in similar stockpiling of great players, on a smaller scale). For example, just look at the rates that Suárez, Neymar (40 goals in a season), Benzema (almost identical goals+assists per minutes in the CL as Messi and Cristiano) and Higuaín (a goal every 80 minutes in La Liga over 5 years I believe it was) are producing in these teams - Lewandowski at Bayern also easily a goal a game nowadays, etc. despite the lower average gpg. in leagues.
The more I've looked into it over the years the harder it becomes to differentiate between the greatest goalscorers, and the more I'm reaching the conclusion that when comparing all those great goalscorers in the history of football (and goalscoring in general) the scorers themselves aren't even close to being the most impactful factor in their own scoring. Quality of team mates, the team as a unit, tactics, (opposition), even the rules of the game make more of a difference to a player's tally than the player's own ability in my opinion. The most evident example I can give you is this: in 1925 the offside rule was changed from three opponents to only two (basically like ) - consequently the average rate of scoring in games went up...
1924/25 English First Division : 2.58 goals per game on average (around the same for the preceding years : 2.47 in 1923/24, 2.63 in 1922/23, 2.69 in 1921/22, 2.76 in 1920/21 and 2.88 in 1919/20)
summer 1925 sees the offside rule change, suddenly largely the same teams & players produce...
1925/26 English First Division : 3.69 goals per game on average (continuing this trend afterwards : 3.61 in 1926/27, 3.82 in 1927/28*, 3.65 in 1928/29, 3.81 in 1929/30 and 3.95 in 1930/31)
*the year Dixie Dean scored his 60 league goals.
Conversely, look at the low-scoring 70s and 80s in Spain and Italy and the defensive-minded tactics and violence on pitches can help explain that state.
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Couldn't score a fifth. Hattrick was a tap in. The decline is real.
We should do anything to get him back in the summer.
I think we can't really accurately compare the stats of players from 2 completely different era. Pele, during his time, played in an era where the common formation/mentality of most football team is all about attacking with minimal emphasis on defense, and not to point out the fact that the defending during that era was mostly non-existence. Football has changed alot over the past 50 years.
So far this season his scoring stats is nothing short of impressive:
27 goals in La Liga (Suarez scored 25, Messi 19, Neymar 18) and 12 goals in CL (Lewandowski scored 7, Muller 6, Messi 5).
If we added up total number of goals/assists in league and CL:
Ronaldo scored 39 goals 12 assists (51 goals/assists)
Suarez scored 30 goals 13 assists (43 goals/assists)
Neymar scored 20 goals 14 assists (34 goals/assists)
Messi scored 24 goals 8 assists (32 goals/assists)
Lewandowski 30 goals 2 assists (32 goals/assists)
Muller 23 goals 6 assists (29 goals/assists)
He's absolutely standing out among the other very best players in terms of productivity this season, not to mention some of his goals which are real top quality (top quality tap-in). And that's the season people said he's past it, and in decline too. The only fault people can find him now is that, he didn't scored as many against top opponents this season. But then, who else really does?
27 goals in La Liga (Suarez scored 25, Messi 19, Neymar 18) and 12 goals in CL (Lewandowski scored 7, Muller 6, Messi 5).
If we added up total number of goals/assists in league and CL:
Ronaldo scored 39 goals 12 assists (51 goals/assists)
Suarez scored 30 goals 13 assists (43 goals/assists)
Neymar scored 20 goals 14 assists (34 goals/assists)
Messi scored 24 goals 8 assists (32 goals/assists)
Lewandowski 30 goals 2 assists (32 goals/assists)
Muller 23 goals 6 assists (29 goals/assists)
He's absolutely standing out among the other very best players in terms of productivity this season, not to mention some of his goals which are real top quality (top quality tap-in). And that's the season people said he's past it, and in decline too. The only fault people can find him now is that, he didn't scored as many against top opponents this season. But then, who else really does?
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He was replying to my post, it wasn't his intention to compare them.
Thanks, mate. I agree that stats without enough detail about their context aren't of much use most of the time. Still, Ronaldo's 5 consecutive 50+ seasons is a pretty impressive stat no matter what. And he is relatively close to have another 50+ season. It is true that footballers played less games in the past but I'd say that it is remarkable in itself to be able to play so many games every season as Ronaldo does and stay highly productive. For what is worth, I consider Pele the more complete player but Ronaldo's consistency is astonishing.
Haven't Real Madrid been hit with a transfer ban for the next two windows?
There's no way they will allow Ronaldo to leave at the end of the season, even if he insists on it.
In the end what will matter is if those goal help Real Madrid win trophies and only the end of the season will give its final verdict (will Real Madrid win the CL or not). His stats have always been amazing even if he used to be better before overall.
True. Ultimately that's the case when it's all said and done and simplicity dictates legacy. However there will always be the argument that he only ever had 1 period where the team around him was somewhat equal to his individual level though. United 2007-2009. Real 11/12 flirted with it and got the gold at the end of the season but couldn't sustain the levels as a team.
And when Real Madrid won the CL and the Copa del Rey. When you think about it he's really unfortunate, the amount of trophies and Ballon d'Or he could have won without Messi and Barca is ridiculous. Would he have been as good as he has without Messi ? That's an impossible question to answer. I think in terms of pure goalscoring (stats and hunger to score), he has overtaken Messi. It is amazing to have this kinda motivation season after season. You can hate Ronaldo but you can only respect his achievements.
It must absolutely suck when you have a player that scores for goals regularly against Shit opposition. I mean if we had that we'd only be top of the league right now.
The only thing that distorts this is Messi was injured for two months and took a few weeks to get into gear again once back, so that really does sway the goalscoring chart (Ronaldo would still be leading this chart however just by 2-3 goals).
I think Ronaldo is the best goalscorer in the history of the game, the only issue about your answer to this question "who does score against big teams" is Messi, Neymar, Suarez and that's why they're gunning on all fronts.
Look against Atletico it was Messi and Neymar who scored in the opening fixtures in September, latterly against Real Madrid, Neymar and Suárez with Messi coming back from injury on the bench.
Scoring against the big teams wins you silverwear, losing against the big teams drops you points in leagues and puts you out the running, it gets you kicked out of the CL too, you need big game players.
Real Madrid this season:
Sporting Gijon - (0-0) (D)
PSG - (0-0) (D)
PSG - (1-0) (W)
Sevilla - (3-2) (L)
Barcelona (0-4) (L)
Atletico Madrid (1-1) (D)
Atletico Madrid (0-1) (L)
Villareal (1-0) (L)
Those are some of the head to heads against fairly big opposition they have lost, silly draws against some modest opposition like Valencia.
They've lost against the top 5 more often that not, dropping points at Villareal (4th), Atletico Madrid taking 1 point out of 6.
Losing to Sevilla (5th).
Now they are 9 points off the league and Barcelona have a game in hand, which is not down to Ronaldo 100% although he is supposedly the second best player in the world (they still shouldn't have sacked Ancelotti though).
I feel sorry for Ronaldo in the aspect of he hasn't won enough in Spain which lets be honest is down to his team-mates and coaching staff around him. His trophy cabinet at Real shows him as one of the greatest Real Madrid players, but it puts him behind Di Stefano in his impact for the club, and his trophy haul.
The other issue about Ronaldo is yes doesn't score in big games, against Barcelona earlier in the year he was dreadful, recently he's picked up form but he has been scoring in bursts, a league is won through consistency.
Would you rather score a goal in each game, or 3-4 in 1 game and not score for 2-3 games? which is going to win you a league?
It's a shame because Bale should really be reflecting his price tag but he's not doing much to show that.
The team is built around Ronaldo to be fair to Real Madrid. For the money they spent they have not won anywhere near the amount of trophies they should have to make it a success since Ronaldo signed for them.
Ronaldo won 2 Balon d'or at Madrid and in that time he won 1 CL title.
When he has his whole team sacrificing themselves to make sure he scores bucket loads of goals to have a return in 7 years of only a handful of trophies is not good enough.
I think they need to move on from Ronaldo and try to be a team again but that is probably impossible as long as Perez is there as he has proven he's not a football man.
Ronaldo as a goalscorer is one of the best ever but I just can't help but think that he should have won more for all those goals he scored.
Sacking Ancelotti was the biggest mistake Perez made as he was getting the best out of Ronaldo and the team of any manager they had.
Ronaldo won 2 Balon d'or at Madrid and in that time he won 1 CL title.
When he has his whole team sacrificing themselves to make sure he scores bucket loads of goals to have a return in 7 years of only a handful of trophies is not good enough.
I think they need to move on from Ronaldo and try to be a team again but that is probably impossible as long as Perez is there as he has proven he's not a football man.
Ronaldo as a goalscorer is one of the best ever but I just can't help but think that he should have won more for all those goals he scored.
Sacking Ancelotti was the biggest mistake Perez made as he was getting the best out of Ronaldo and the team of any manager they had.
Yes he didn't scored as consistently this season as his previous against top opponents. But regarding the league, scoring (or even winning) against bigger team doesn't not necessary wins you silverwear (back in time when we dominate English football, we used to loss regularly against top 4 teams whereas most of our points are gained from winning against weaker opponents). Regarding CL, so far he's been scoring for fun even against tougher opponents (still at early stage though)
Also, there's simply no one who could manage to consistently score a goal in each game. None in this world. In fact Ronaldo is the closest player to that perfect level (and Messi too), if we counted over past 5-6 years (this season his consistency level has dropped abit though).
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So true
SAF used to specialize against the cannon fodder, which won us league after league. (Not that he's record was bad against the top 4).
WTF? If you don't want to read about football or people posting about one of the most famous names in football then don't join a football forum!
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