Okay I get that you weren't but we were talking about an article titled "How Middle Class Liberals Destroyed The Labour Party" which you said is excellent. The headline itself is factually incorrect. The whole thing is shit.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Okay I get that you weren't but we were talking about an article titled "How Middle Class Liberals Destroyed The Labour Party" which you said is excellent. The headline itself is factually incorrect. The whole thing is shit.
No, it is both. A cocktail of reading public opinion and influencing it.
Today's edition of let's fabricate an anti-corbyn scandal from the Guardian.
Jeremy Corbyn's staff accused of being 'petty' as rebel MPs' aides are locked out
Read the article and it says much further down, Corbyn's team didn't revoke pasess they informed the house these aides no longer work for the party.. which they don't so the house revoked them. So the rebel MPs forget to manage their own staff and then get the Guardian to accuse Corbyn of pettiness
Jeremy Corbyn's staff accused of being 'petty' as rebel MPs' aides are locked out
Read the article and it says much further down, Corbyn's team didn't revoke pasess they informed the house these aides no longer work for the party.. which they don't so the house revoked them. So the rebel MPs forget to manage their own staff and then get the Guardian to accuse Corbyn of pettiness
So Angela Eagle now runs to challenge Jez.
Jez is surely going to beat her by a wider margin than he won by last year.
Then...? The MPs fall in line? The party splits?
Jez is surely going to beat her by a wider margin than he won by last year.
Then...? The MPs fall in line? The party splits?
Corbyn and his team have rightly been criticised for incompetence at times.
But less than a week after Chilcot is published the Labour "centrists" are intending to unite around an MP who voted for the Iraq war and against an investigation into it. Jesus Christ. Is the party simply full of idiots?
But less than a week after Chilcot is published the Labour "centrists" are intending to unite around an MP who voted for the Iraq war and against an investigation into it. Jesus Christ. Is the party simply full of idiots?
It's insane. Absolute idiots.
I expect we're going to see some maneuvering on a third candidate. Owen Smith will probably be encouraged to stand to split the Corbyn vote with Eagles team thinking he's too unknown to challenge.
I would consider voting Owen Smith over Eagle but my vote will be Corbyn most likely.
Hard for MPs to fall in line after saying they have no confidence in the man's ability to be their leader, and I'd hope they wouldn't as well. Let him get on with it with his half-empty front bench and seriously explore the options around setting up a new party.
If that happens Eagle can't be the face of it, she just won't carry the support. The circumstances are terrible for a split as there's no obvious figurehead. Chukka maybe but he's retreated.
This whole thing has been a gross miscalculation. If they don't believe Corbyn will win an election they should have patiently waited for him to fail and make the best of it in the mean time
He certainly won't win an election with the parliamentary party in open revolt...and whether he does or not, surely it is about policy and political principle? In short, you have policies and people vote for them, you don't create policy to get elected in an ideal world.
But, you know, his shoes are crap and he isn't trying to be anodyne whilst voting for the Iraq war.
But, you know, his shoes are crap and he isn't trying to be anodyne whilst voting for the Iraq war.
The only way this makes any sense is if the idea is to lose heavily and use said loss as a justification for a split
Forget her record for a second, we've constantly been told that this is about wanting a leader to unite and inspire the left. Months of backstabbing, abstaining and undermining later and the face of this Labour "renaissance" is the human equivalent of Temazepam. It is utterly laughable.
This is who Corbyn is likely to be up against.
Someone who can sit in the same room as Jeremy Hunt and still look like by far the biggest cnut.
Someone who can sit in the same room as Jeremy Hunt and still look like by far the biggest cnut.
Eagle wouldn't be the leader of a split party, she's only being put forward because of the selectorate - Jarvis for instance is far likelier to have support with the wider country, but the membership has moved far to the left of even when Ed was elected (Eagle's probably to Ed's left). The unions are another thing, Unite couldn't even decide who to nominate between her and Watson last year, and he's an ex-employee.
You say patiently wait for him to fail, what does that involve? Losing a general election? Every electoral indicator seen so far has been worse than Miliband, and I'm really not sure just waiting for the party's seat level to fall below 200 for the first time since the 30s is a great idea.
It means not constantly sabotaging their own leader and party.
heck. she is doing it for the good of the party.
a minor flaw compared to voting for a false war, where hundreds of thousands died and trying to supress the findings.
What site is this? I've used it before but I cannot remember it for the life of me.
That would help.
Electing another Blairite to further alienate one aspect of Labour's core vote whilst not actually appeasing other aspects of the parties core vote to win over Tory voters is unlikely to help.
In Scotland, the path of Labour since the 90s resulted in political dis-illusion and eventual defection of the left to the SNP virtually en masse.
In England there is no real leftist alternative, but there are many right wing ones. It is essential there is a party of the left in England, even if perceived wisdom is it is unelectable. I don't want a party Tories might vote for. I want one I would vote for please.
Much obliged.
good post. @Fingeredmouse
SWP, Socialist Party, TUSC, Greens are available. Labour is a party of government.
If you want government for its own sake then vote for the Tories.
Seems like an pretty impressive man(Ex army, bringing up his kids on his own)but I think I'm right in saying that he couldn't get his own constituency to vote Remain.
indeed. what is the point of winning a GE and doing feck all for ordinary people?
I see Labour governing in a coalition which would be far better.
I see Labour governing in a coalition which would be far better.
Say there is a GE called early next year, now do you think Corbyn potentially losing that would do more damage to the Labour party than a split would? Or even a coup than turns the grass routes away and offends some of the public on principle?
If anything the circumstances of an early election have reduced the time they would have had to put up with him. We're not waiting 4 more years and risking another 5 of Tory governance.
I can imagine you dislike Corbyn as much as I hated LvG but even I didn't want us to concede own goals just to be rid of him
Say there is a GE called early next year, now do you think Corbyn potentially losing that would do more damage to the Labour party than a split would? Or even a coup than turns the grass routes away and offends some of the public on principle?
If anything the circumstances of an early election have reduced the time they would have had to put up with him. We're not waiting 4 more years and risking another 5 of Tory governance.
I can imagine you dislike Corbyn as much as I hated LvG but even I didn't want us to concede own goals just to be rid of him
in a nutshell.
Pretty much the entire north outside of big cities voted Leave. There are plenty of the social conservatives up there that we were speaking about the other day.
Genuinely not sure at this point that an election defeat would turn a lot of his supporters against him. Looking on twitter, they're cultists.Say there is a GE called early next year, now do you think Corbyn potentially losing that would do more damage to the Labour party than a split would? Or even a coup than turns the grass routes away and offends some of the public on principle?
If anything the circumstances of an early election have reduced the time they would have had to put up with him. We're not waiting 4 more years and risking another 5 of Tory governance.
I can imagine you dislike Corbyn as much as I hated LvG but even I didn't want us to concede own goals just to be rid of him
Angela Eagle to announce Labour leadership bid on Monday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769
Bring it!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769
Bring it!
I'm going to look at a social media website that is generally known for representing the worst in people and use it to pass judgement of hundreds of thousand of people.
My point being I'm not sure there's much reasoning to suggest he can have a wider appeal across the country. Although it's still earlier days I guess.
She can't even win the support of her own constituency.
so why is she determined to bring on this turmoil in the party?
That's nonsense, the majority would move on maybe not on policy but to a new voice for that policy.
Who will you be voting for if it's Eagle, Watson, Smith?
I still think Watson will throw his hat into the ring he's just trying to minimise any claims of being a back stabber.
sounds very much like she is interested in her own seat and nothing else. The Party be screwed.
But would there be another such voice? It would be reliant on him resigning again, and if he doesn't think a similar type of person would receive the nominations we might be right back where we are now, only with 180 MPs instead of 230.
If it's Eagle, Watson and Smith then we're fecked because it needs to be a sole candidate. Realise here that I'm in a position of not overly liking any of those candidates - Eagle and Watson last year I put as 4th and 5th for deputy respectively, and Smith recently said we need to build a "progressive case against free movement", which I find an annoying jumble of words. Watson I still think has baggage from being the man who brought down Blair (ironically this would actually be a great selling point in a leadership election).
The basic way I see this now is that it'll tell me if I'm too far removed from the rest of the membership or not. If Corbyn's put back in, I can safely say that the majority of the party now see things too differently to me to be reconciled and I'll have to move on as a member (again) and this time as a voter as well, and will just stop commenting (celebrations all round!). If it's the opponent, I'll see a path forward. It's horrible to say as someone that's voted Labour in every election I've been eligible for (bar a tactical dalliance with Lib Dems in the locals one time), but that's unfortunately where I am.
Yes indeed. A party of government who are also meant to be of the left.
Apparently it is ok to have right wing parties of govt, but not of the left?