Rooney Contract Haggling / Transfer Requests Revisited

[Born2Lose]

Is there a direct quote from Ferguson in 2009 where he says Ronaldo won't be sold?

Why if he was setting it up for him to leave as you suggest and he was revealing that Rooney had asked to leave, why would he say in the manner he did ''We're not going to let him go.'' If he was you know actually going to let him go.

It makes no sense mate.

The golden rule with Ferguson is that you never believe anything that he said to the press, simple as.

http://www.espnfc.com/story/263122/ferguson-beckham-not-for-sale

If the basis for any argument is a press quote by Alex Ferguson, then there isn't an argument.

 

[stevoc]

I think he would. Chelsea aren't Liverpool.

SAF didn't like backstabbers and Rooney was at the very beginning of his decline. He also bought Kagawa and RVP who were meant to do Rooney's job

It was 2013 we had just won the league, Jose was returning to Chelsea and needed a top striker, you think Ferguson would have let him have one of our best players? Fair enough but i disagree.

I can't think of one time Ferguson sold one of our best players at a prime age to a direct rival.

 

[RedDevil@84]

It was 2013 we had just won the league, Jose was returning to Chelsea and needed a top striker, you think Ferguson would have let him have one of our best players? Fair enough but i disagree.

I can't think of one time Ferguson sold one of our best players at a prime age to a direct rival.

This. And I do not buy the story that SAF actively wanted him thrown out. If it were true, he could have made it happen because even if retiring, SAF had enough clout to convince board and Moyes why he wants Rooney out.

 

[stevoc]

The golden rule with Ferguson is that you never believe anything that he said to the press, simple as.

http://www.espnfc.com/story/263122/ferguson-beckham-not-for-sale

If the basis for any argument is a press quote by Alex Ferguson, then there isn't an argument.

There is no Golden rule mate, you take each comment in the context it was made. Saying Beckham wasn't for sale in April two months before the end of the season makes sense, it would be odd to say he was and have the subsequent media shit storm overshadow the remainder of the season.

Saying Rooney has asked to leave but immediately following it up with saying the club are not going to let him leave in May after the season was basically over is different from my point of view. If the club were looking to sell then Ferguson wouldn't have announced to the world that he wants to leave on live TV reducing his potential sale price, it makes zero sense.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Kagawa was supposed to replace Rooney.

Chelsea got lucky in the end, as they signed Costa and won the league. I don't think Rooney would have scored 20 goals in the league.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I think there is some Irony in the possibility that now the club is showing ambition by buying players of world class calibre could possibly mean that Rooney is edged out...

 

[stevoc]

Kagawa was supposed to replace Rooney.

Sort of, i think Mulensteen said Kagawa was being brought in to play as a 10 with Rooney moving back up top. But then we had the opportunity to sign RVP after we had already agreed the Kagawa deal. So we signed both and Rooney just stayed where he was.

Chelsea got lucky in the end, as they signed Costa and won the league. I don't think Rooney would have scored 20 goals in the league.

Well he scored 17 league goals for United in 13/14 in a side in free fall. So i don't think 20 goals would have been out of the question for a Chelsea side that were in much better form.

 

[WhoDaGOAT]

Sort of, i think Mulensteen said Kagawa was being brought in to play as a 10 with Rooney moving back up top. But then we had the opportunity to sign RVP after we had already agreed the Kagawa deal. So we signed both and Rooney just stayed where he was.



Well he scored 17 league goals for United in 13/14 in a side in free fall. So i don't think 20 goals would have been out of the question for a Chelsea side that were in much better form.

He's only hit 20+ in the league twice though, and Costa scored his 20 goals from 26 games (24 starts).

 

[stevoc]

He's only hit 20+ in the league twice though, and Costa scored his 20 goals from 26 games (24 starts).

True but how many seasons has he played all year as an out and out striker?

09/10 when he scored 35 and thats about it. As i said if he scored 17 league goals playing slightly deeper in a side in turmoil, i suspect he would have scored 20+ playing up top for Jose.

Plus i think they signed Costa in 2014 not 2013 didn't they?

 

[united_99]

First it was a disgrace that he questioned our ambitions and his teammates in the way he did.

Now even leaving this out which better team could he have joined? Real and Barca were hardly fighting over him or needed him, Chelsea or City left then. So what? Have they been more successful from 2010 until Fergie retired than the terribly ambitionless United? Have they dominated England or Europe?

It's not like he was Messi, Ronaldo or David Villa in 2010 with every top club interested in him.
Hell even RM only won 1 league title in that period.
So the only team more successful in this period than us was Barca who I am sure would have ditched Messi, Villa and Co and be over the moon with Rooney.

But yeah the awful United which finished 1 point behind Chelsea and went out marginally in the CL against Bayern after having a player sent off was such a mess for which Rooney was just too good. My God.

 

[devilish]

It was 2013 we had just won the league, Jose was returning to Chelsea and needed a top striker, you think Ferguson would have let him have one of our best players? Fair enough but i disagree.

I can't think of one time Ferguson sold one of our best players at a prime age to a direct rival.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34389171

Erm the issue started way earlier than that specifically in October 2010 when Rooney asked to leave United, a move that left SAF dumbfounded. Having lost Ronaldo just a year before, United couldn't afford losing Rooney too so the club went in full desperate mode to make Rooney sign a new contract. They sealed the deal 48 hours later but Rooney's antics where interpreted as a quite of a cnutish move from Rooney's part.

2 years after, Manchester United signed Kagawa and RVP which made Rooney a valuable but not indispensable player. In 2013 Rooney went to see SAF regarding his future, an issue that degenerated into a big 'misunderstanding' were SAF claimed that Rooney wanted to leave again.

If you ask me, I think that the old fox made sure that he won't be held hostage by Rooney again. He implemented the necessary changes in 2012 (ie when Rooney had 3 years left in his contract) and used that season to see if he needed Rooney anymore. After confirming that it wasn't the case SAF taunted Rooney by dropping him and playing him out of position and the idiot fell into his trap by meeting him to discuss his future. SAF used that meeting to turn the fans against the English international which would have made the impact of losing Rooney far less painful. If the rumours that SAF had Ronaldo in the bag is true (The Portuguese pulled out of the deal after he learnt that SAF had retired) then no one would have given a crap were Rooney would end to.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Does Wayne Rooney really have a contract paying him £260k/week till 30 June 2019? That would make it a 6 year deal, if it was "negotiated" in 2013. £81 million in total. I suppose it's still less than Pogba's transfer fee. For me, the problems with contracts like that are:

1. makes Rooney impossible to sell,
2. causes wage inflation: an obviously better striker will want at least as much as Wayne.
3. it stops you bringing in better players, and
   
4. you have to play him. How do you not play the guy on the biggest wages?

All this historical revisionism and "what if" supposition is lost on me:

but I think it was in order to make it more acceptable to get rid.

At no stage is there any indication SAF was going sell, or otherwise get rid. Threats maybe, which are just part of you negotiating position.

 

[rotherham_red]

I find it a total myth that Rooney was 'good' that season. He was awful at times.

Hell, he wouldn't even bother listening to the man who sorted out his 8 year £900,000/hour contract:

So true, his tactical indiscipline cost us getting something out of Everton away that season. He was the striker that day, but played anywhere but up front. Was absolutely woeful for at least 50-75% of that season but the British press obviously missed that

 

[stevoc]

If you ask me, I think that the old fox made sure that he won't be held hostage by Rooney again. He implemented the necessary changes in 2012 (ie when Rooney had 3 years left in his contract) and used that season to see if he needed Rooney anymore. After confirming that it wasn't the case SAF taunted Rooney by dropping him and playing him out of position and the idiot fell into his trap by meeting him to discuss his future. SAF used that meeting to turn the fans against the English international which would have made the impact of losing Rooney far less painful. If the rumours that SAF had Ronaldo in the bag is true (The Portuguese pulled out of the deal after he learnt that SAF had retired) then no one would have given a crap were Rooney would end to.

I don't know if that is all true or how it really played out but i love the overly dramatic way you have described it there mate.

 

[prath92]

Carried us to what? It was our worst season in well over 20 years. To carry us you are alluding that we achieved something and we didn't.

Not at all. Carrying a team means in many instances being the only good outfield player in the team and being responsible for many of the wins of that team.

 

[devilish]

I don't know if that is all true or how it really played out but i love the overly dramatic way you have described it there mate.

I am the first to accept that I am over dramatic. However its natural for experienced managers to identify potential fickle players, devise plans to make his team less dependent on them and then get rid of them once they are not indispensable anymore. The last thing a manager wants is to be dependent over 1 player. That's a situation SAF had avoided throughout his entire career.

SAF also knew that fans are a sensitive lot and United fans are the most sensitive of them all (you have to read Bastian's thread). They find it very difficult to let go and they are easily manipulated by the players (ie remember the Tevez case?). Rooney was at that time, England's and United's most important player. His departure was something he had to manage carefully.

 

[Minimalist]

Not at all. Carrying a team means in many instances being the only good outfield player in the team and being responsible for many of the wins of that team.

Not that case of Rooney in 2013/14 then. Sometimes he was but a few others had just as many. Hernandez had probably the biggest (most important for Moyes early on) match winner early on at home against Stoke.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Fergie's comments at his retirement speech were just him being bitter and throwing Rooney under a bus if you ask me.

You only have to read Fergie's last book to see how petty he can be when he feels slighted.

He always seemed to get rid of big names because of personal differences or personality issues rather than because of ability.

I agree with this.

As Fergie was leaving, I have no idea why he even brought it up. He created a massive job / headache for the new manager. In hindsight, he should have kept his wee mouth shut.

 

[Rooney24]

Still cant understand the love some retain for Rooney. Absolutely he has had his moments and high ones at that for us. but I really struggle to remember the last time he ran and dominated a game for us. He used to be held up as being in the level of Ronaldo and Messi but he has never come anywhere near those levels.

He is completely ineffective most games these days. I saw Peter Shilton said he should retire from international football for exactly that reason and I couldnt agree more.

We should have got rid when we had the chance. Since he signed his bumper deal I really dont recall him doing anything outstanding at all.

And before anyone say it my user name is nothing to do with him. Just an unfortuante coincidence.

 

[Nate Dogg]

I think he was respectful even then. He didn't go public with his TR, he didn't make anything messy. Fergie made it public. I could understand the hatred for Rooney because of the TR but the fact that Rio (lunch with Kenyon), Ronaldo (horrendous behaviour in 08) and Keane (his own contract issues) did similar or worse stuff and it's never really held against them now. The Rooney hatred borders on the kind of hatred you'd have for a player for the opposing team that you hate.

I've heard this mentioned a few times but what really happened?

 

[Coops73]

First it was a disgrace that he questioned our ambitions and his teammates in the way he did.

Now even leaving this out which better team could he have joined? Real and Barca were hardly fighting over him or needed him, Chelsea or City left then. So what? Have they been more successful from 2010 until Fergie retired than the terribly ambitionless United? Have they dominated England or Europe?

It's not like he was Messi, Ronaldo or David Villa in 2010 with every top club interested in him.
Hell even RM only won 1 league title in that period.
So the only team more successful in this period than us was Barca who I am sure would have ditched Messi, Villa and Co and be over the moon with Rooney.

But yeah the awful United which finished 1 point behind Chelsea and went out marginally in the CL against Bayern after having a player sent off was such a mess for which Rooney was just too good. My God.

And this is why I've never been a fan of Rooney. Whether he's been badly advised or not I don't know but I think he's used certain situations to get himself improved contracts on both those occasions and I think there is still a hangover from those "threats" to leave within the club today and it is my hope that with some decent success under Mourinho in the next season or till that "power" he has will be slowly eroded away.

 

[dichinero]

First it was a disgrace that he questioned our ambitions and his teammates in the way he did.

Now even leaving this out which better team could he have joined? Real and Barca were hardly fighting over him or needed him, Chelsea or City left then. So what? Have they been more successful from 2010 until Fergie retired than the terribly ambitionless United? Have they dominated England or Europe?

It's not like he was Messi, Ronaldo or David Villa in 2010 with every top club interested in him.
Hell even RM only won 1 league title in that period.
So the only team more successful in this period than us was Barca who I am sure would have ditched Messi, Villa and Co and be over the moon with Rooney.

But yeah the awful United which finished 1 point behind Chelsea and went out marginally in the CL against Bayern after having a player sent off was such a mess for which Rooney was just too good. My God.

That's what happens when you believe your own hype. The English media did a good job hyping him to go shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo early in his career. He clearly still think he should be regarded as such!

 

[RedDevil@84]

That's what happens when you believe your own hype. The English media did a good job hyping him to go shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo early in his career. He clearly still think he should be regarded as such!

How?

 

[dichinero]

How?

Quotes like "I've been playing this game long enough, I don't need to prove my self to anyone", refereeing to his poor performances as good enough and wondering why there is an overreaction? Throwing his previous managers under bus?
Talk reserved for the big boys!

 

[prath92]

Not that case of Rooney in 2013/14 then. Sometimes he was but a few others had just as many. Hernandez had probably the biggest (most important for Moyes early on) match winner early on at home against Stoke.

I don't remember Hernandez scoring much. I remember he was barely playing for Moyes. Doubtful he scored more than 3 or 4 in the league all season.

 

[Minimalist]

I don't remember Hernandez scoring much. I remember he was barely playing for Moyes. Doubtful he scored more than 3 or 4 in the league all season.

I'm just referring to one big match winner in that sentence: look it up.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

I don't remember Hernandez scoring much. I remember he was barely playing for Moyes. Doubtful he scored more than 3 or 4 in the league all season.

Yep. 4 times, three of those as a substitute.

 

[devilish]

It seems that PS is not ready to get over the fact that we ended up spending 80m for a player who showed SAF the middle finger.

 

[Mockney]

Absolutely he has had his moments and high ones at that for us. but I really struggle to remember the last time he ran and dominated a game for us..

The FA Cup Final. Where he won MOTM.

Hyperbole. Hyperbole everywhere!

 

[prath92]

I'm just referring to one big match winner in that sentence: look it up.

I never said he won all 50 games for us. But when United won there was a good chance that it was due to his assists or goal than otherwise. He had close to 27 goals+assists. Next was RvP with maybe 15 or 16 (Not sure of the exact amount). Welbeck and Hernandez had maybe 10 each at best. So it's safe to say Rooney's goals were more important.

 

[DanClancy]

Not at all. Carrying a team means in many instances being the only good outfield player in the team and being responsible for many of the wins of that team.

In your opinion, I like many others thought his performances were well over hpyed. We all know Rooney hasn't been the same since his injury away to Bayern in 2010 in the CL quarter final, he's been on downward spiral ever since. You have to go back to 2012 for Rooney's last big performance against top opposition.

 

[Dominos]

Rooney was definitely gone that summer. SAF basically said it's up to Moyes what to do, but he'd had him out the door ready to go.

Remember that Mata + luiz swap deal for Rooney? Turns out that wasn't BS after all. Shame it wasn't Mata + cash as it would have worked out well.

Selling him to a title rival would have been risky even for SAF.

People give Moyes stick for not getting rid that summer but his only option was to sell to Chelsea who had just signed Mourinho and were in desperate need of a top striker. It would have been a suicidal start to his tenure for him to let Rooney go to Chelsea. Knowing what we know now, if we had sold him we'd have likely have had a similar disaster season under Moyes finishing 7th and Chelsea may well have won the league given they came close with Torres/Eto'o up front. Would have gone down as one of the stupidest decisions ever made.

What makes you think the Mata/Luiz swap wasn't BS? From what I remember of that summer Duncan Castles reported Mourinho was willing to listen to offers for both of them and he was called a bullshitter given Mata was player of the year and would never be sold. Then the Manchester journos Ducker/Ogden broke the news that Chelsea had put in a bid for Rooney that involved Mata/Luiz. Chelsea blamed United for feeding this story to their media, Mourinho said in a press conference the bid was pure cash, no players involved. Of course within 12 months both Mata and Luiz had been sold.

 

[prath92]

In your opinion, I like many others thought his performances were well over hpyed. We all know Rooney hasn't been the same since his injury away to Bayern in 2010 in the CL quarter final, he's been on downward spiral ever since. You have to go back to 2012 for Rooney's last big performance against top opposition.

Thing is when he seem to conjure up magic in those big games especially when we need it. As someone else mentioned, the FA Cup final his run was very good that led to the equalising goal. He was also very good vs some big teams in 14/15. Liverpool home, city home, Arsenal away, Spurs home to mention a few games. Nothing pre 2010 level of course but still good.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Fergie began to lay the groundwork the summer previous; RVP and Kagawa represented a clear plan for the succession.

The very best scenario for Rooney would have been his accepting a squad role, but such can lead to anger and confusion as we all know.

Most galling of all, the foresight demonstrated by Sir Alex has been borne out in every subsequent season since 12/13.

 

[PepsiCola]

The FA Cup Final. Where he won MOTM.

Hyperbole. Hyperbole everywhere!

Come off it, he hardly dominated that game.

 

[clarkydaz]

I never said he won all 50 games for us. But when United won there was a good chance that it was due to his assists or goal than otherwise. He had close to 27 goals+assists. Next was RvP with maybe 15 or 16 (Not sure of the exact amount). Welbeck and Hernandez had maybe 10 each at best. So it's safe to say Rooney's goals were more important.

Hernandez was barely playing and Kagawa was shunted to left midfield ("they tell me he's good" etc). I remember that season we played at St James park without Rooney and it was one of our best displays of the season football wise, and a different style with neat passes around the box. He was Moyes main man, some people have it in their heads we would have played that season with 10 men if Rooney wasn't there

 

[dichinero]

Come off it, he hardly dominated that game.

That's the new CAF logic. One moment of brilliance defines domination over the course of 90min!

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Rooney would make a lot of money here if he would get £1 for every thread about him.

 

[anant]

Are people really saying that Rooney was wrong to say that our side requires WC players in 2010? Hell, it was an established fact. All he wanted was Ozil iirc and he had just indirectly pointed how we replaced a WC player in Ronaldo with Valencia and Obertan!
And IIRC it wasn't him who leaked it out.

 

[clarkydaz]

Are people really saying that Rooney was wrong to say that our side requires WC players in 2010? Hell, it was an established fact. All he wanted was Ozil iirc and he had just indirectly pointed how we replaced a WC player in Ronaldo with Valencia and Obertan!
And IIRC it wasn't him who leaked it out.

it wasn't his place to be talking like that in public. Yes he asked Fergie to sign Ozil, Fergie said to him you do the playing and i'll do the managing.