Rooney took advantage of us at our weakest. Maybe it was Paul Stretford's strategy, but he too has to bear the brunt of the ill-will that has resulted.
Rooney Contract Haggling / Transfer Requests Revisited
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
"I do think that the heart of Rooney's contract disputes were in some way reflecting the fact that we were not flexing our financial muscles like we should and would not be able to compete."
But we were competing, at all levels! So where's your argument?
But we were competing, at all levels! So where's your argument?
Its called lacking money, our financial situation severely hampered Fergie. A huge % of the clubs turnover was used to pay interest payments etc.
Every discussion about Rooneys scoring record always goes the same way, how predictable. Must have had the same conversation 10-12 times in the last few years. So last year i compared his goals record during his entire United career at that point (18-29) to the records of some of the best out and out strikers of the last 40 years.
So he's only scored 250 goals because of longevity? Ok heres the stats, his international scoring record is compared in there also seeing as you think thats just because of caps.
Of course we shouldn't need stats like these to highlight the bloody obvious. Any player who has averaged 20 goals every season and always gets into double figures over a 12 year period while not actually playing as a centre forward or taking penalties for the vast majority of it is of course an excellent finisher.
He was a very good finisher, as he got older I thought his finishing improved but in the last 18 months its just another part of his game where he's gone backwards.
Yeah i wouldn't hugely disagree with that at all mate. As someone pointed out a few days ago as he has declined physically naturally his ability to score and get into positions to score has diminished.
But i just don't understand how anyone can say he was never a good finisher considering the goals he's scored makes no sense, to me anyway.
He had 2 seasons where he scored over 30 goals so he had to be a good finisher although he wasn't at the same level as RVN as a finisher.
SAF has gone on record multiple times saying that he was never declined money and got who he wanted. Bearing in mind that players like Berbatov, Carrick, Hargreaves, Nani and Anderson were all big buys purchased at the start of the Glazers taking over. Similarly the money was made available within 36 hours to fund Rooney's huge contract.
Very few were, are or ever will be mate. Theres no shame for him in that.
To be fair all those signings were made before City inflated the wage market to levels United couldn't compete with and United were also having to pay off huge interest payments on i believe PIK loans because of the credit crunch.
This sums it up well. Great post.
I don't know why some people can't understand this, people who would rather accuse his critics of having an agenda. I hate seeing that.
They took plenty of dividends during this time so if SAF made demands for players I am sure they would have complied but as per SAF's own words he was never denied money.
I never really believed SAF when he said there was no lack of money at the time. For whatever reason, he never said a harsh word about them whatsoever, maybe because they let him keep total control over the football matters at the club. Fact is Utd were paying off some nasty high interest loans and couldn't have spent as freely as what we have in the last couple of years.
Ppl are in a very desperate attempt to compare the situation with Keane and Rio.
More or less every player has to fight for his improved contract and play games in the media regarding this. Even Messi and Ronaldo's teams do it every 1-2 years.
Also good players get approached by other teams all the time and they also end up listening to some of them.
However in Rooney's case it is the combination of many things which were handled in the worst way: flirting with other English teams + questioning club and teammates at a time we are successful but his own form has been below par for a while + putting out a statement 2 hours before a United game + after getting the contract mostly until now not performing to the level expected from someone who is on that kind of money.
Regarding transfers and Fergie I think the money was available, why else could we afford to buy Jones and Young, but not a real quality player instead for 40 mil for example?
I think Fergie neglected the 1st team quality in his last years at the expense of a good (but not great) squad.
Maybe with Chelsea already there and City spending crazy he wanted to make sure winning the PL remains a priority as well as overtaking Liverpool sooner rather than later.
CL is a bit of a lottery he knows but for PL he knew exactly what he needs and which kind of players it takes to win it.
Anyway I am over the moon that we have managed to be the record champions of England with a squad which lacked ambition and quality
Now with the supposed quality we have maybe we can win 3 CLs in a row soon.
More or less every player has to fight for his improved contract and play games in the media regarding this. Even Messi and Ronaldo's teams do it every 1-2 years.
Also good players get approached by other teams all the time and they also end up listening to some of them.
However in Rooney's case it is the combination of many things which were handled in the worst way: flirting with other English teams + questioning club and teammates at a time we are successful but his own form has been below par for a while + putting out a statement 2 hours before a United game + after getting the contract mostly until now not performing to the level expected from someone who is on that kind of money.
Regarding transfers and Fergie I think the money was available, why else could we afford to buy Jones and Young, but not a real quality player instead for 40 mil for example?
I think Fergie neglected the 1st team quality in his last years at the expense of a good (but not great) squad.
Maybe with Chelsea already there and City spending crazy he wanted to make sure winning the PL remains a priority as well as overtaking Liverpool sooner rather than later.
CL is a bit of a lottery he knows but for PL he knew exactly what he needs and which kind of players it takes to win it.
Anyway I am over the moon that we have managed to be the record champions of England with a squad which lacked ambition and quality
Now with the supposed quality we have maybe we can win 3 CLs in a row soon.
I get what you're going for but that comparison can be quite misleading. Simply comparing the goals they scored from when they were 18 up to when they were 29 is a bit "out there" for me. Chances are Rooney played more games than either of them as he has a decent injury record and has been a starter since then for a team that usually had 60 games a season due to European as well as domestic cup competitions (often being a contender, which helps with goal scoring records, we have had some amazing teams during Rooney's time here).
Rooney was a good finisher but he never struck me as a prolific striker like Shearer or Nistelrooy. Looking at his goal scoring record for us I always feel, not underwhelmed, but I can't help feeling like he should have done better.
Don't want to get into a big off topic discussion mate so this is the last i'll say on it, yes money was available for fees. But the wages being offered for top players rose to a level we just couldn't compete with.
Our top players like Rio and Ronaldo had all recently got £100-120k pw contracts around that time. City were giving those deals to the likes of Barry and Lescott in 2009. While giving Yaya and Tevez £220-260k pw contracts. United always keep wages below 50% of turnover and for a period around 08-12 we just couldn't match those kind of deals.
Thats why our transfer strategy after 08 seemed to focus more on promising young players like DeGea, Jones and Smalling and punts like Hernandez, Bebe and Obertan. None of those players would command a big wage.
Thats the thing mate i'm not saying he's as good a finisher as Van Nistelrooy or Shearer were, both have better strike rates but they were also probably the two best out and out strikers to play in England or anywhere for that matter for the last 30 years. All i'm trying to point out is that whether people realize it or want to admit it Rooney has been very prolific over his United career.
Out of interest i dug up their appearance records over that period from the same thread as this response came up back then also.
Rooney 479 - 233
Shearer 427 - 236
Van Nistelrooy 368 -237
Linekar 405 - 218
Law 384 - 236
Let me add that everyone in this list is a top striker. However, only Rooney has played as left forward, central midfield etc... both under SAF and other managers... so his numbers are very impressive.
This.
Also, complaining that Utd weren't aspirational enough in terms of making signings & then spitting his dummy out when we signed RVP.
Stats are stats, but I believe what my eyes tell me more, I'd swap a prime Shearer or Van Nistelrooy any day of the week for a prime Rooney.
We didnt meet his ambitions then, his performances dont match ours now.
Thats why some of us want him sold. There is little sentiment in this business relationship. He doesnt perform, then he must go.
Would prime Shearer or van Nistelrooy work as well as him with Ronaldo for instance?
It's a weird hypothetical, Rooney isn't pure forward. And prime Rooney fits so fecking well with prime United. And we know that for sure, yet who knows how it would be with those two instead.
If thats your opinion fair enough mate. To be fair Rooney hasnt really played in the same position as Shearer or Ruud that much.
If i was looking for a centre forward then i would go for Ruud or Shearer also. But if i was looking for a no10 or a wide forward then its Rooney easily for me.
Rooney hasn't been prolific over his United career. He's been here longer(this is his 13th season) in a club where scoring goals is a birth-right.
Ruud scored 150 goals in 5 seasons while here. Ruud would have broken Bobby Charlton's record in his 8th season(going by the same rate).
This is Rooney's 13th season and he's yet to break the record. Don't quote number of appearances when looking at stats critically - it can be deceptive. Bring out the number of minutes.
Ronaldo didn't have to play as a centre forward to score 42 goals in 07/08. Rooney is not a prolific striker - he's not even close.
If you remove the goals scored via penalty from his stats, he's only averaged about 12 Premier League goals per season. How's that prolific?
Little wonder, he's never won the Premier League's golden boot in his 12 full seasons at Man Utd. A feat that was easily achieved by Tevez, Berbatov, Ronaldo and even Drogba....
So because because one of the best players of all time did it. Every player should be able to? Give over mate you are talking rubbish.
He has not played a full season as a centre forward bar 2009-10 when he would have won the golden boot if not for injury.
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This is crazy. So by your logic Bobby charlton also wasn't prolific enough because he scored 249 goals over 17 years?
Nonsense mate he's scored 246 goals in 524 games thats almost 1 in 2. And he's not even a centre forward of course he's been prolific. This is getting ridiculous.
Unlikely Ruud was 30 when he left us he managed 33, 20 and 10 in his next 3 seasons. It's doubtful he would have played enough games to break the record.
Yeah you feel free to work out the goals to minutes ratios of Rooney, Van Nistelrooy, Shearer, Law and Linekar mate. Like that would in any invalidate the point i was making.
So many could've broken the record, yet they didn't.
Prolific must mean something different then. When I see prolific, it's what the likes of Ronaldo, Messi and Suarez are doing. People that have close to 90% scoring rate, not the likes of Rooney that are scoring at the rate less than 50%.
My point has already invalidated yours. 250 goals in 520 games is 10 goals short of 1 in 2. How did you work that out to be prolific? If a striker is commanding the same wage bill as Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo and he's performing way less than them on the pitch then the harsh criticism is justified.
To whom much is given, so much more is expected....
Yeah it definietly is mate if thats the standard you are judging every player against.
Jesus christ 10 goals
, i said ''he's scored 246 goals in 524 games thats almost 1 in 2''Maybe the word almost means something different to you also does it?
To be fair, Ronaldo, Messi and Barcelona have changed what it means to be prolific.
But the Rooney discussion should be far more than goals scored. His level of performances have been well below those expected of the club's top earner.
But the Rooney discussion should be far more than goals scored. His level of performances have been well below those expected of the club's top earner.
United have had many strikers since sir Bobby retired. Some of them world class even. Why is it that none of them broke the record? were they restricted from breaking that record due to Rooney's influence over the club or something?
The only guys who could have maybe broken the record are Ronaldo and rvn. Rvn left us when he was in decline and he was done in 2 seasons after he left us. It's also not anyone else's fault that Rooney was bought at 18 and rvn wasn't. RvN wasn't this prolific for club till he was in PSV at 22 anyway which is no one else's mistake. Ronaldo decided to leave us for Real Madrid at 22. It's senseless to say that had they got 13 seasons they could have broken the record. Sure they could but it's not like we asked them not to play for us for 13 seasons.
Most of our club top scorers also are unsurprisingly long-serving players Charlton (56-73) Law (62-74) jack rowley (37-55) best (63-74) Giggs (91-14).
The only guys who could have maybe broken the record are Ronaldo and rvn. Rvn left us when he was in decline and he was done in 2 seasons after he left us. It's also not anyone else's fault that Rooney was bought at 18 and rvn wasn't. RvN wasn't this prolific for club till he was in PSV at 22 anyway which is no one else's mistake. Ronaldo decided to leave us for Real Madrid at 22. It's senseless to say that had they got 13 seasons they could have broken the record. Sure they could but it's not like we asked them not to play for us for 13 seasons.
Most of our club top scorers also are unsurprisingly long-serving players Charlton (56-73) Law (62-74) jack rowley (37-55) best (63-74) Giggs (91-14).
Fact is Rooney has never been, not even 1 season, a top 5 player in the world.
Sadly he's earned a top 5 salary for 7 years.....
If he was paid what he's worth we'd be looking at a 100k pw footballer. Tops.
Sadly he's earned a top 5 salary for 7 years.....
If he was paid what he's worth we'd be looking at a 100k pw footballer. Tops.
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This may surprise you but salary isn't paid solely on performances anymore.
From the look of things, so is a starting lineup spot.
So what you are saying is that Rooney not only broke scoring records (often playing in midfield) but he also managed to get paid more that what he is worth!!! That is, he beat the accountants and the CEO, and our American owners, who seem to be quite cunning as businessmen.
Obviously, it is not easy to achieve this.
So, in your opinion Rooney has been very smart! Or perhaps he hired the right manager, same thing actually.
His agent has timed "things" perfectly in the past.
Clearly Rooney isnt intelligent in the slightest.
And surely even nuthuggers accept he has never been a truly elite player?
Surely?
Picking the right people for the right job is a clear sign of intelligence.
Especially for a footballer, it is extremely smart to 1) pick the right agent, and 2) listen to him. You'd be amazed how many footballers fail because of that...
Do you watch football? At his best he was good enough to start for any team.
You haven't watched football before 2013. Surely you have to accept that. Surely ?