Exactly. Especially when you consider what age Shaw broke into the first and how he played before his injury. Would anyone say he was a wuss then? It's so sad that as United fans we find so acceptable and so easy to put the players to the sword just because the manager isn't yielding results. Isn't it his job to get the best out of his players? Isn't that what differentiate a so called world class manager from mediocre one? Afterall, the manager is highly paid too, isn't he?
Jose: "There are those who want to be here at any cost and those who suffer with a little pain."
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
These problems have been around since Fergie walked out the door, Moyes and LVG were blatantly undermined despite rarely criticising any player in public. Those two took the full brunt of three years of abject and woeful performances. And as soon as they were sacked, the same players they spent years protecting and pandering too came out and called them shite.
I keep seeing posts of people saying stuff like "what will this achieve" "it's bad for the squad" "recipe for disaster", as if the last three years didn't happen. The method of protecting these soft cnuts for three years has led to years of piss poor levels of under performing, managerial undermining, lack of responsibility being taken by the squad and did I mention piss poor levels of under performing.
Why shouldn't Mourinho throw them under the bus? In case what? In case they under perform?
In case they lose 4-0 to Chelsea and go around laughing, hugging and kissing their players?
In case they go away to Fenebahce and put in one of the most gutless displays ever seen from a United side in Europe?
In case they go 8 European away games without a win?
In case they crumble under the extreme pressures of West Ham, Spurs and Watford away?
In case they go a dozen or so games at Old Trafford without scoring a first half goal?
In case they finish 7th or 5th?
In case they lose 4-0 to MK dons?
Oh no that's right all those things have already happened, at a time when none of these players were held personally accountable for anything, where they were protected by the media who were quick to blame everything on Moyes, Van Gaal, hell even Fergie got some blame. It's so so tiring and even though I wasn't a fan of Moyes and van Gaal, I'm tired of the bullshit these players are getting away with.
We've got people in our squad sulking and under performing because THEIR SQUAD NUMBER CHANGED. What the feck is going on? Like seriously? We've got players who's family members are moaning on social media because they're not playing.
Nobody cares if your squad number changed, nobody cares what your family think about who deserves to be in the first team, nobody cares if you were "shocked" and "terrified" by difficult training methods, just shut the feck up and play.
There are real pros and ex pro's out there suffering from genuine problems, depression, bankruptcy, injured players who's careers have ended, players who can't get clubs etc etc. These guys have real problems, not these twats bitching because their squad number changed or because Mourinho points out that after they've just lost 4-0 to Chelsea and away to Fenerbahce that they might just be a bit shit. feck em, in fact I encourage it, after every pathetic performance, Mourinho should come out and blast them one by one.
Oh for God sake give over. None of us have implied that we think Mou is completely faultless, but he's well within his right to express his concern regarding the commitment of some players. If you're not fit enough, or if you've got a slight pain, you should still put yourself forward to play, if you want to that is.It especially good for Mou, as he has put himself out of the line of fire by shifting the blame on the players.
The story of the lone ballsy knight in shining armor(Jose) fighting the good fight against the hordes of moaning, spoilt, commitment lacking, overpayed pussies(Players), how romantic.
A good modern manager should be able to motivate his employees and win them over. Constantly lashing out at them in public won't get you anywhere in that regard.
JM is celebrating a cover-my-ass PR stunt to deflect from his inability to build a working unit, so that ppl don't question *his* performance and whether he's actually worth the money he's being paid.
Going by the reactions over here, he's currently having the success with it he's lacking on the pitch.
It's up to the manager to decide whether you're fit enough, not you - and regarding Smalling saying he doesn't want to play through a slight pain, it's not good enough for me. RVP said once that he can't remember the last time he's played a game without a constant pain. Shearer said today on MOTD that he rarely ever played 100% fit/pain free. It's a part of being a pro footballer.
Now of course if Smalling's pain was relatively severe and he couldn't play then fair enough, but the way Mou talked about it seemed he was a bit skeptical about that. Shaw apparently came out of nowhere and declared he didn't want to play.
Not exactly at United so far. Does not matter if he had fantastic records else where.
Also from reading his quotes on Espn, not sure he is demanding players to play thru injuries. But I think it was a bit of a rant which I have no idea might do to anyone in long term.
People here pulling names but jose said smalling said he is not at 100% and he kept on saying players have to play even they were not at 100%. And yet no one brought smalling into the players he was talking about?
I might have missed it. Too many pages atm to read all thru.
LVG had issues with Shaw and his fitness. Remember?
I don't think it's coincidence he's being questioned again by another experienced manager.
Yeah and that youth teamer walked into the Juventus first team with the likes of Vidal, Marchisio, Pirlo as competition. Our midfield was nowhere near that so its obvious that we misjudged his ability
And I'm also not sure about this ripping the bundesliga apart claim
Some (group of) players have more power in their hand with the help of the press. The easiest example is Rooney in SAF's last season. He was not England captain back then and press did attack him from time to time. However, when he's dropped vs Madrid in the second leg after a shocking performance in the first leg, Colleen and press took the opportunity and tried to undermin SAF. What did the old gaffer do? He dropped Rooney often and publicly announced Rooney requested a transfer. There is time a private hair dryer won't do as player see press as "us" instead of "them".
Similar thing to do with Beck...
In LVG's last season, it was clear that Shaw had knuckled down and got his fitness up to scratch before his injury. I reckon he just needs time to do that again.
Oh so, didn't he always level out the criticism with how well he was supposedly doing in training and how he thinks that he is a top player? You're going to compare that this?
That is complete BS to me. In that situation the medical staff and the player's opinion should go first.
Considering the injury crisis' we have had over previous years I think we are doing pretty well
He did but shaw came back stronger and putting some class performances before his injury.
Some were calling him the best left back in the world or thereabout at that point. But, lvg did predict that it would be his season on pre season tour. Clearly, shaw reacted it well.
Who knows with what is going on atm. Gotta wait and see.
yeah
It's my Internet, it's been slow so every time I try to post something it doesn't execute so I have to retry but once it goes through all my tries turns out to have gone through
Oh Mourinho didn't level it out like Klopp? Wow our poor players....I hope their feelings are ok
It especially good for Mou, as he has put himself out of the line of fire by shifting the blame on the players.
The story of the lone ballsy knight in shining armor(Jose) fighting the good fight against the hordes of moaning, spoilt, commitment lacking, overpayed pussies(Players), how romantic.
A good modern manager should be able to motivate his employees and win them over. Constantly lashing out at them in public won't get you anywhere in that regard.
JM is celebrating a cover-my-ass PR stunt to deflect from his inability to build a working unit, so that ppl don't question *his* performance and whether he's actually worth the money he's being paid.
Going by the reactions over here, he's currently having the success with it he's lacking on the pitch.
What a terrible and misinformed post.
Don't know where to start in picking it apart. How you got promoted to the mains is beyond me.
Another example of the cancer that plagues the Caf these days.
I am not disputing that some measures are not necessary but this is so early into the season.
Really surprised by the loyalty shown by United fans towards a man whos shown absolutely nothing and whos last 18 months as a manager have been poor. From deciding Mkhitaryan is mentally weak and lazy to Martial has a bad attitude; all eerily similar to what Chelsea fans were saying about Diego Costa and Eden Hazard after Mourinho questioned their character and motivation.
After the game Mourinho said "It's not just the players but it's the people that surround the players. It will take time to change [the mentality] but with the help of players like Phil Jones, Michael Carrick and Wayne Rooney, it will be a possible mission."
Do the players not mentioned who hes taken a liking to absolutely frighten you? If I was a United fan they would. Hes isolating your most talented players while bigging up the likes of Wayne Rooney. I would of thought a fanbase who recently saw Ashley Young oust Di Maria would see the warning signs. Favouring players lime Lingard, Fellaini and Young over Martial, Mkhitaryan and Shaw is why you struggle to get into the top 4 on a regular basis.
Be careful what you wish for.
After the game Mourinho said "It's not just the players but it's the people that surround the players. It will take time to change [the mentality] but with the help of players like Phil Jones, Michael Carrick and Wayne Rooney, it will be a possible mission."
Do the players not mentioned who hes taken a liking to absolutely frighten you? If I was a United fan they would. Hes isolating your most talented players while bigging up the likes of Wayne Rooney. I would of thought a fanbase who recently saw Ashley Young oust Di Maria would see the warning signs. Favouring players lime Lingard, Fellaini and Young over Martial, Mkhitaryan and Shaw is why you struggle to get into the top 4 on a regular basis.
Be careful what you wish for.
I was agreeing with you.
My point being it's not the first time a top manager has had concerns regarding Shaw. Maybe he just needs a kick up the arse from time to time.
I know. My point is it's not the first time he's been called into question.
When did he say Martial has a bad attitude?
I don't disagree with you about this is early in the season. But with the context, we have players running to the press, bypass the (different) managers since SAF's retirement, I think what Mourinho did is necessary as we need new wineskin for new wine as the old wineskin hasn't worked for the last 2 managers pouring 2 different wine.
Pique/Stam/Forlan/ are all examples as well.
I'm sure Sir Alex said this exact same thing about a player in the past.
Was it Saha?
These problems have been around since Fergie walked out the door, Moyes and LVG were blatantly undermined despite rarely criticising any player in public. Those two took the full brunt of three years of abject and woeful performances. And as soon as they were sacked, the same players they spent years protecting and pandering too came out and called them shite.
I keep seeing posts of people saying stuff like "what will this achieve" "it's bad for the squad" "recipe for disaster", as if the last three years didn't happen. The method of protecting these soft cnuts for three years has led to years of piss poor levels of under performing, managerial undermining, lack of responsibility being taken by the squad and did I mention piss poor levels of under performing.
Why shouldn't Mourinho throw them under the bus? In case what? In case they under perform?
In case they lose 4-0 to Chelsea and go around laughing, hugging and kissing their players?
In case they go away to Fenebahce and put in one of the most gutless displays ever seen from a United side in Europe?
In case they go 8 European away games without a win?
In case they crumble under the extreme pressures of West Ham, Spurs and Watford away?
In case they go a dozen or so games at Old Trafford without scoring a first half goal?
In case they finish 7th or 5th?
In case they lose 4-0 to MK dons?
Oh no that's right all those things have already happened, at a time when none of these players were held personally accountable for anything, where they were protected by the media who were quick to blame everything on Moyes, Van Gaal, hell even Fergie got some blame. It's so so tiring and even though I wasn't a fan of Moyes and van Gaal, I'm tired of the bullshit these players are getting away with.
We've got people in our squad sulking and under performing because THEIR SQUAD NUMBER CHANGED. What the feck is going on? Like seriously? We've got players who's family members are moaning on social media because they're not playing.
Nobody cares if your squad number changed, nobody cares what your family think about who deserves to be in the first team, nobody cares if you were "shocked" and "terrified" by difficult training methods, just shut the feck up and play.
There are real pros and ex pro's out there suffering from genuine problems, depression, bankruptcy, injured players who's careers have ended, players who can't get clubs etc etc. These guys have real problems, not these twats bitching because their squad number changed or because Mourinho points out that after they've just lost 4-0 to Chelsea and away to Fenerbahce that they might just be a bit shit. feck em, in fact I encourage it, after every pathetic performance, Mourinho should come out and blast them one by one.
I agree with this, player power is reserved for special talents who consistently perform and deliver trophies so no one in our squad has the right to complain when Mourinho points out why we've been falling woefully short.
Mourinho is simply doing what needs to be done, simple as that.
Some may not like like it and find his methods questionable but it's absolutely necessary IMO
Some may not like like it and find his methods questionable but it's absolutely necessary IMO
I missed out the "not" in my reply. Was agreeing with you then
I honestly do not agree with everything you wrote in your post but, this part was interesting. The players he tasked to change the mentality are three of the players who have been here the longest which goes contrary to the type of stuff said in this thread.
What are you on about? our most talented players are out there every game - Pogba, Zlatan, Mata, Herrera. Shaw has played far more games under Mourinho than Young so again not sure what you're on about there. Have you seen Shaw or Martial's performances this season anyway? Or better yet Mkhitariyans against city? There's no doubting these players should be in the team but when they have this season they've been poor and it's not a surprise that these are the three players currently having "issues" with Mourinho and the club.
Well, lvg called him out for being fat or something.
But, this time, he had a terrible injury. Tbf, if he is not being confident with his leg, he has all the right to pull out. Even if he plays for the fear of getting singled out, his performance would be shit anyway coz of it.
He might need some help psychologically or physically which probably does not come from his manager's apparent rantings about him in public.
If only Mourinho read redcafe and learned management techniques from youIt especially good for Mou, as he has put himself out of the line of fire by shifting the blame on the players.
The story of the lone ballsy knight in shining armor(Jose) fighting the good fight against the hordes of moaning, spoilt, commitment lacking, overpayed pussies(Players), how romantic.
A good modern manager should be able to motivate his employees and win them over. Constantly lashing out at them in public won't get you anywhere in that regard.
JM is celebrating a cover-my-ass PR stunt to deflect from his inability to build a working unit, so that ppl don't question *his* performance and whether he's actually worth the money he's being paid.
Going by the reactions over here, he's currently having the success with it he's lacking on the pitch.
If only he knew how to be a good modern manager like you know so well. He won the title 2 years ago! So much has changed since then
Seriously your whole post is just to take the piss out of our manager. Why even sign up to a United forum if thats what you want to do?
You're right he might do or he might be a bit lazy and need a kick up the arse from time to time? Who knows.
Well we don't know why he pulled out. Could have been something that had nothing to do with that leg
Yeah he got sacked for taking a title team to 16th place.
This is what the forum is becoming pal. It's sad really as the United forum used to be for non WUMS and decent discussion.
The mods need to get a grip of the place.
Isn't it known that he's not the sharpest tool in the box...
Yeah shown nothing but somehow only 6 points behind Guardiola....bloody hell how many opposition fans are on here
My old man was telling me about how ballistic he went when Fergie sold McGrath and Whiteside and how some fans were practically frothing at the mouth about the direction the club at the time. He sees a lot of parallels with what's happening now and what was happening then I completely agree with that sentiment. There's a time to protect your squad and there's a time to let them know about their shit and I'm afraid we're knee deep in the latter.
Yeah we should be able to have decent discussions about how all our players are cowards and primadonnas.
I know and I agree. United forum is now swamped with opposition fans who want to take the piss out of United and it's really boring
What you on about?
They used to get booted for it but now no one is arsed.
The football forum is for the oppo fans and the United forum for United. Especially if they want to come here to WUM.