I'm aware of the positions they play. The original point was that Alli had sown moe potential than Pogba. Just because Pogba wasn't playing in the PL doesn't mean he showed less potential.
Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey
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I also don't think the times when these things were being argued about the opinions presented by Glaston as 'stupid' actually were quite so bad.
Rafael was a better RB than Walker at that time; the discussion was whether he was better than Zabaleta or not, and that wasn't just on here.
Valancia is (this season) a better RB than Walker too, and at the time when Shaw was being heralded as a better LB than Rose it was at a time when it was a lot closer than it is now.
And Nani probably was a better player at the time than Bale too.
I think Glaston's problem is that he gets carried away, as he's doing now, and starts to hype clearly very talented players with lots of potential as if they were the finished article about a season or two early. Which often leads him to be right, in a sense, that the players he's talking about are good players, but wrong about whatever he was actually arguing about at the time.
Thats his real problem really. No one has any issue with the suggestion Alli is a good young player enjoying a very good start to his career with the potential to be even better, but - even though Glaston acts like thats all he's saying - the nitty gritty of it is that he actually goes on to talk about them (and Rose, Walker, Kane, Bale etc...) as if they've already achieved it.
Thats why he gets so much flack.
Indeed. "Stomping their feet" is a perfect description.
Glaston's main crime is being positive and optimistic about a club most people feel belong mid table. How he has had the nerve to suggest that a club such as Spurs may have better players or ability to challenge United I will never understand. Even now most people on this forum seem to debate when Pochettino and ' insert any player too good for spurs' here will leave the club. Of course this can rub some spurs supporters the wrong way, and when they then respond aggressively the United posters do the same. I'm not saying most United supporters do this, but any thread I read about Spurs you see it frequently.
Regarding Alli. I think he is a great talent and might become an absolutely top player. Pogba is further down in development and is obviously a fantastic and complete midfielder. Not going to compare the two since it is rather pointless.
Regarding Alli. I think he is a great talent and might become an absolutely top player. Pogba is further down in development and is obviously a fantastic and complete midfielder. Not going to compare the two since it is rather pointless.
Like I said, things like this are totally subjective. For example, I wouldn't even have classed Valencia and Walker as a debate this season but you not only think it's a debate but that Valencia is better. Frankly, I'm not really going to bother arguing that in any great length.
Similarly, Shaw was being talked up as one of the best left backs in the world after a few decent performances and rose derided as being nowhere near his talent level. To suggest otherwise on here was to be deemed a moron effectively.
Which again, is fair enough. I'm not here to try to Convince thousands of Man utd fans that our players are better than theirs.
I'm not trying to defend him. I'm saying that the response to him us disproportionate and boring and it ruins threads. That people jump on various bandwagons (ie he disappears after Spurs lose). And that even when he argues logical things that fans of other clubs may get away with, he is ridiculed as being delusional (see points above).
I just don't see the point and it detracts from the point of this being a football forum.
I've said that the way he responds to things I'd also not really correct at times either.
I'm another one of what? Apart from Liverpool fans and occasionally the Spurs lads when they're being particularly annoying I don't think I ever really go on a wind up. I try and respect the fact this is a United forum, and that it's pretty decent allowing us oppo fans to post so openly here.
Ultimately its an issue of watching more of your own team than any other which I expect explains our difference of opinion on Valencia/Walker (I'm far from a Valencia fan btw, and have spent most of the last two years thinking he's not good enough, but I struggle to think of how he can have been better than he has this season; he's been excellent) and many others.
But I think even then, what really rubs people up the wrong way about Glaston is, despite what he professes to have been arguing, he comes across as saying 'my club is great; your club is shit' regardless of how rational or irrational the original post is and, as this post is proof of, shifts the goalposts and changes whats important when it suits him.
I think the fact that even the Liverpool fans tend to get less shit than Glaston does speaks volumes.
No that's not what I said at all? The original point that Glaston made was that Alli at the age of 19, had shown as much as Pogba had at the same age. Prodigal then said that Pogba has been dominating midfields his entire career. So I'm saying that the point was that they had shown similar potential at the same age, and that Pogba's extra three years (and all the achievements that he's had during that time) are not relevant - to that specific point.
Apologies I misread it. I thought you were making the point you did make and then as an aside, saying "Not that he's done much more anyway". My mistake!
Where exactly would he play ?
Yes, because stating a different opinion is considered trolling now
I'd find somewhere for him, you can never have too many good players. I'm sure he could play the more advanced role in a midfield 3.
This post looks a bit silly after today. Zidane and Iniesta wouldn't struggle to get the better of a midfield of Henderson and Can. Yeah it's one game, people are allowed off days, but most of the hype for Pogba's performances this season have come from dominating against the likes of Hull.
Wait.
How is Valencia better than Walker?
Walker has created more chances than any other defender in the entire league. He's the top of the heap of all of them.
He's also a member of the best defense in the league and I've got to say he's been one of our most consistent performers and he's really taken a further step this season.
Our FB/WB's have been a revelation so far this season, the improvement in these guys under Pochettino is incredible.
Because Valencia has been incredible too. Basically a one man right hand side for us at times. I'll grant you that Walker's been better going forward (its still bizarrely a weakness of Valencia's game in the final third) but I'd have Valencia anywhere else on the pitch.
The stats would back that up too if we're going to go down that route.
I think you seriously underestimate how well Walker has played this season, and first and foremost he's a defender operating in currently the best defence over the last 18 months.
And you with Valencia too which is somewhat the point.
No, I've seen enough of Valencia and he's quite good.
So which are the stats that back it up? I'm curious just from a devil's advocate point of view. If it's tackles and interceptions though that's a terribly flawed argument.
Anyone else think Alli could be a legitimate target for us? I think we need more home grown players.
Our English scouts needs a kick up their arse for letting this one slip. Him about single handedly ripping us a new one when we played MK Dons should be evidence enough.
Exactly my thinking. Unbelievable how we didn't sign him immediately after the game. It was clear as day he was the best player on the pitch. I'm guessing even Spurs signed him on the back of that.
Five f*cking million. You can't buy Bebe with that.
Exactly my thinking. Unbelievable how we didn't sign him immediately after the game. It was clear as day he was the best player on the pitch. I'm guessing even Spurs signed him on the back of that.
Five f*cking million. You can't buy Bebe with that.
Apparently we had known about him from the age of 14 - although I've no doubt many other clubs were aware of him as well.
I think we need to steal a few of your scouts and negotiating team. For a total under £100 million they have bought Lloris (£10 million), Carrick (£3.5 million), Modric (£16.5 million), Berbatov (£10 million), Bale (£5 million), Dembele (£15 million), Alderweireld (£11.5 million), Danny Rose (£1 million), Eriksen (£11 million) Kyle Walker + Naughton (£9 million) and of course Alli for £5 million. All tremendous business.
That is one thing as a club we seem to get right - we have had great recruitment of players at relatively small prices. Mind you, we have had a lot of luck in the way some of them have developed (that and some very good coaching) - not all of them have worked out but usually we still sell at a profit (mostly). We don't have the biggest budget for wages or transfer fees so we have to look for the best deals we can on players we believe can be developed into the players we need rather than buying the finished article (mostly).
I know the general feeling was that we wasted the Bale money but we did get Eriksen and Lamela who have both proved to be good signings (Eriksen in particular obviously) and we still managed to get a lot of the money back when we sold the rest - though quite a few duds in there - Soldado, Paulinho, Vlad and Capoue all pretty much disasters.
Agree with this. We've really missed the boat on a few. I've said a few times our scouting has been average over the last 7 years or so.
Though I wouldn't count Walker in that. As well as he's currently playing the guys been terrible at times over the years.
Walker proves that a player shouldnt be totally written off if they are very inconsistent throughout the start of their career. He used to frustrate the hell out of me and he never seemed to progress much mainly because he seemed to just rely on his pace to get him out of trouble rather than develop his game. He has been in fantastic form for the last 2 years though, since Poch has been here he must have done wonders with him on the training ground because he has finally become a very consistent player both in attack and defense. Took him many seasons to get there though.
Yeah true but you can only wait so long. I don't think a club with the expectations of United could have indulged him for that long.
Already belonged to Spurs by then right?
I'm not sure about that actually - I think we signed him after that game if memory serves me right - could easily be wrong though.
Id have to look it up but im pretty sure he was signed then allowed to continue on for a season.
That's true - Spurs kinda have to give players time and try to develop them but I cant see the same thing happening at Utd although Utd do have a history of spending big therefore expecting more earlier I guess. Mind you, the more success Spurs have the more pressure there will be on players to play well earlier - as we are seeing with Janssen I think so things may change.
He was but I think the game you are talking about happened before we signed him.
Well feck...that makes it worse
http://www.mkdons.com/news/article/...am-hotspur-transfer-deadline-day-2244883.aspx
http://www.mkdons.com/news/article/...am-hotspur-transfer-deadline-day-2244883.aspx
United wont get him for anything short of Pogba money now especially from that prick Levy.
We played MK Dons at the end of August 2014, he was signed in Feb 2015 (winter transfer deadline day).
They literally signed him at the next available opportunity.
yeah i saw that, read above
When we signed him there was a bit of a buzz about him but as soon as he started training with the team from what I have heard they were absolutely stunned at how good he was - much, much better than they had anticipated and he was accelerated into the first team as a result.