General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%
  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%

  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
And here's May



Jebus, no wonder she's shying away from non scripted debates, she's such a robotic drone its not even funny.

Woman mentions learning disabilities, and The Teresatron-3000 goes off on some scripted monologue on mental health :wenger:

She's probably also still running on Windows XP.
 
That Brexit means the end of FOM? Not ideal but welcome to the shit show that is Cameron's legacy. Being the EU party is working so well for the Lib Dems it's hard to look at their figures and not think what could have been.
Good article in the FT on this today.

Says that any party arguing that they're the "voice of the 48%" is sadly misguided, as that group doesn't actually exist. There's the 52% Brexiteers, who nearly all still hold their views, 22% 'Hard Leavers' who want Brexit to be stopped, and 23% 'ReLeavers' who voted Remain but now think the government has a duty to leave. The Tories are polling 60% in the two leave camps, while the Greens, SNP, Lib Dems and metropolitan Labour MPs are all targeting just that 22% of the electorate. It's going to be a landslide and I don't think there's anything the 'left' can do to stop it.

Shouldn't be a surprise but what a shame. I'm still shocked how little resistance there's been to Brexit in the two main parties, who both officially backed remain. The initial fear of looking anti-democratic looks a terrible mistake to me - May set the narrative after Brexit while the rest of the country was looking for reassurance as to what would be coming next. But it was a blank canvas to project onto - any senior political figure could have jumped in there first to argue a convincing interpretation of the vote and what should follow it. No-one did...
 
Good article in the FT on this today.

Says that any party arguing that they're the "voice of the 48%" is sadly misguided, as that group doesn't actually exist. There's the 52% Brexiteers, who nearly all still hold their views, 22% 'Hard Leavers' who want Brexit to be stopped, and 23% 'ReLeavers' who voted Remain but now think the government has a duty to leave. The Tories are polling 60% in the two leave camps, while the Greens, SNP, Lib Dems and metropolitan Labour MPs are all targeting just that 22% of the electorate. It's going to be a landslide and I don't think there's anything the 'left' can do to stop it.

Shouldn't be a surprise but what a shame. I'm still shocked how little resistance there's been to Brexit in the two main parties, who both officially backed remain. The initial fear of looking anti-democratic looks a terrible mistake to me - May set the narrative after Brexit while the rest of the country was looking for reassurance as to what would be coming next. But it was a blank canvas to project onto - any senior political figure could have jumped in there first to argue a convincing interpretation of the vote and what should follow it. No-one did...
Bang on.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are
Are Tories the workers' party? Labour polling figures suggest they are
(…)
For Jeremy Corbyn appears in this election campaign to have achieved something even Ed Miliband was unable to do: lose the majority support not only of Britain’s skilled workers, dubbed social class C2 by the pollsters, but also the DEs – the semi-skilled, unskilled and unemployed.
(…)
This week’s Guardian/ICM poll confirms that the only groups Labour enjoys majority support with are 18- to 24-year-olds by 57% to 22%, non-white voters by a much narrower 40% to 38%, and students by a much more comfortable 65% to 16%.
(…)

That confirms what I’d expect. Labour under Corbyn attracts young middle class people, who want to play revolution, while alienating its core constituencies.
Ahh nvm. Poor old Corbyn is just missunderstood. *It is all the media* *If people would only understand...* *turkeys voting for Christmas* *They hate poor people* *Selfish idiots* *Racists*

Did i forget something?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are


That confirms what I’d expect. Labour under Corbyn attracts young middle class people, who want to play revolution, while alienating its core constituencies.
Ahh nvm. Poor old Corbyn is just missunderstood. *It is all the media* *If people would only understand...* *turkeys voting for Christmas* *They hate poor people* *Selfish idiots* *Racists*

Did i forget something?
Woolfie-Corbyn.jpg
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are


That confirms what I’d expect. Labour under Corbyn attracts young middle class people, who want to play revolution, while alienating its core constituencies.
Ahh nvm. Poor old Corbyn is just missunderstood. *It is all the media* *If people would only understand...* *turkeys voting for Christmas* *They hate poor people* *Selfish idiots* *Racists*

Did i forget something?
*Awaits responses with anecdotal evidence*
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are


That confirms what I’d expect. Labour under Corbyn attracts young middle class people, who want to play revolution, while alienating its core constituencies.
Ahh nvm. Poor old Corbyn is just missunderstood. *It is all the media* *If people would only understand...* *turkeys voting for Christmas* *They hate poor people* *Selfish idiots* *Racists*

Did i forget something?

Exactly what policies in the manifesto are alienating the working classes?
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are


That confirms what I’d expect. Labour under Corbyn attracts young middle class people, who want to play revolution, while alienating its core constituencies.
Ahh nvm. Poor old Corbyn is just missunderstood. *It is all the media* *If people would only understand...* *turkeys voting for Christmas* *They hate poor people* *Selfish idiots* *Racists*

Did i forget something?
It's an interesting story that's repeated across most polls, class based voting almost vanishing: this week's YouGov - ABC1s Tory 49 Labour 30, C2DEs Tory 49 Labour 32. Contrast with this time in 2015 (polls were out 3 points for Labour and 3 for Tory so adjust accordingly, but still) - ABC1s Tory 38 Labour 30, C2DEs Tory 28 Labour 38.
 
Exactly what policies in the manifesto are alienating the working classes?
Leaving the single market and then increasing corporation and income tax for one.

That is not even shooting yourself in the foot. Its more like chopping your foot off putting it on a target and then shooting it.
 
Exactly what policies are alienating the working classes?
It's not all about policy - it's just as much both parties' presentation, public relations and handling of the mainstream media.

If Corbyn's party wants to declare war on the media that's fine, but this is the result. Never go full Trump...
 
what an idiot... though no doubt his echo chamber of followers will say the right wing media stitched him up (and she works for the guardian)

This is such a good example of those frothing at the mouth to criticise Corbyn :lol:

*Corbyn agrees with nurse that working til 68 for a nurse is too late shocker*. I can see the headlines "Corbyn says 68 year olds aren't capable""First the death tax, now he's coming for your job"
 
This is such a good example of those frothing at the mouth to criticise Corbyn :lol:

*Corbyn agrees with nurse that working til 68 for a nurse is too late shocker*. I can see the headlines "Corbyn says 68 year olds aren't capable""First the death tax, now he's coming for your job"

Its just so frustrating that when there is a feking robot in charge of a conservative party ready to tear its self apart over the hardness of the brexit and UKIP have shot themselves in the foot by electing a leader who makes farrage seem competent that labour practically given up on the election by not only repeating the mistakes of 1983 but amplifying them.
 
It's not all about policy - it's just as much both parties' presentation, public relations and handling of the mainstream media.

If Corbyn's party wants to declare war on the media that's fine, but this is the result. Never go full Trump...

Of course it isn't its a bloody big chuck of it though and Pedros comments are about policy as much as anything.

Labour has had an image problem worsened by the Mail for years, Corbyn has an image problem worsened by the Mail. Policy isn't an issue.
 
Its just so frustrating that when there is a feking robot in charge of a conservative party ready to tear its self apart over the hardness of the brexit and UKIP have shot themselves in the foot by electing a leader who makes farrage seem competent that labour practically given up on the election by not only repeating the mistakes of 1983 but amplifying them.

I really dont get what you think he did wrong but i dont think you care either.
 
I think you are missing two key points, in regards to that specific policy. First, is the certainty over job security, and removing that psychological barrier when dealing with one's employer. Second, is that caring for a relative can be a stop-start type of circumstance, calling for a short-medium term absences. You shouldn't have to take holiday or fear for your job prospects when such situations arise.

Similarly, this applies to bereavement related leave.

Sure, they could go further, however it's an advance from the status quo.

I'm not sure many employers would be dick ish enough to stop you having time off to care for a relative. Putting an arbitrary timescale of a year is worse, what if you hit the 366th day?

Yes it's good, but it'd not an advance of workers rights that's going to help many people
 
only to keep the (more) incompetent fekwhit out of power
Yes we've been through this, people who will most affected by more Tory rule will have to suffer for the greater good so you can get rid of the nasty man in charge of Labour. All while you complain that those voting for Labour don't care about 'what happens to the country and general population'
 
Agreed.

Given the rate of increase to net immigration in such a relatively short period of time, we likely have more flexibility than some suppose. Fare more important, in my view, is reform the existing entry procedure. For not only are the financial demands significant, but the emotional stress of the whole process also.

Your mob have promised again to hit <100000 migrants a year, the spouses will be stranded to appease the racists
 
Of course it isn't its a bloody big chuck of it though and Pedros comments are about policy as much as anything.

Labour has had an image problem worsened by the Mail for years, Corbyn has an image problem worsened by the Mail. Policy isn't an issue.
Of course policy is an issue, it bears a direct relation to the image. Labour aren't trusted on the economy and they're pledging to go on a huge spending spree. For this election it's probably decent strategy because it's about getting the core vote out and stemming the bleeding, but you can't do that if you want to win an election.
 
Leaving the single market and then increasing corporation and income tax for one.

That is not even shooting yourself in the foot. Its more like chopping your foot off putting it on a target and then shooting it.

Those specific policies are alienating working class people?
 
While extending BTEC Thatcher's reign. Triffic logic.

Hey there goes the NHS, social mobility and our privacy. But at least we stopped Corbyn!
That needs to become the 'But her emails' of all those who will either come crawling back to Labour or with whatever Blair's rumoured brood end up calling themselves.
 
Jebus, no wonder she's shying away from non scripted debates, she's such a robotic drone its not even funny.

Woman mentions learning disabilities, and The Teresatron-3000 goes off on some scripted monologue on mental health :wenger:

She's probably also still running on Windows XP.

Oh dear.

I think that is a difficult situation, tbf. Some awkward but very valid questions being asked by someone who won't / can't / doesn't want to listen or believe what you say and will come back at you again.

Not that your point is wrong, obviously. Was one of them swiftly escorted away from that?

Will we see it leading the 6pm news do you think?
 
Did I imagine all those lengthy conversations a couple of years ago about the absolute need of the party to be electable...
 
Of course policy is an issue, it bears a direct relation to the image. Labour aren't trusted on the economy and they're pledging to go on a huge spending spree. For this election it's probably decent strategy because it's about getting the core vote out and stemming the bleeding, but you can't do that if you want to win an election.

Well when they release it, if it is fully costed then whats the issue?

If it is still an issue then it would be fair to blame the electorate and the only way to be trusted on the economy again is a low tax, no additional spending manifesto. Blair recognised the idiocy of the electorate, his entire first campaign was geared around that but the left get mocked if they dare say the same.
 
Exactly what policies in the manifesto are alienating the working classes?


People hardly care about long manifestos, but about few catch-phrases and the general tone of a campaign.

- The working class is usually fairly patriotic and considering the circumstances („UK vs EU“), they want someone as leader, who stands up for the UK; not somebody who talks lots idealistic bollox. The party that is able to define the conversation about a topic has already won it. Labour isn’t even part oft he Brexit conversation. Not having a convincing alternative narrative about Brexit is the biggest problem for Labour and it is too late to change that.

- Part of C2DE („skilled and unskilled worker“) are not convinced by his approach to the economy. Promising a spending-spree, while taxing „the rich“, is not a universally accepted recipe for success. People want to get opportunities; not just increased benefits, when shit hit the fan. They understand that raising taxes also has downsides, that might affect them negatively.

- Immigration is another emotional issue and many C2DEs want less of it. It is just like with Brexit: Labour conceded all the space to the Torries.

- Corbyn is the prime example of a politician who looks at everything through the lens of class and social justice. That doesn’t work when class based voting is breaking down. His way of framing politics is seriously off-putting for many people.
The people who are most favourable to Corbyn’s narrative are young, progressive and middle class. That might be a cliché, but theguardian.com data supports this view. Yet young progressive middle class people might be fairly vocal on twitter, but they don’t turn out to vote in numbers. Additionally, any party needs to build coalitions between different groups. Yet Corbyn is doing the exact opposite. His supporters constantly engage in these ideological purity tests. That's cancer for any party. Take it from someone whose own political opinion is very far outside the mainstream: My own tribe is constantly doing the same and that's one reason why nobody likes them. It alienates even me, despite agreeing with much of their content.
May is anything but a crowd-pleaser, but she can present herself as pragmatic technocrat. That's what people want; they don’t want somebody who quotes from Das Kapital or hands out the Little Red Book. People joke about „strong and stable“, but it works. Keep it simple and allow the opposition to sabotage itself.
 
People hardly care about long manifestos, but about few catch-phrases and the general tone of a campaign.

- The working class is usually fairly patriotic and considering the circumstances („UK vs EU“), they want someone as leader, who stands up for the UK; not somebody who talks lots idealistic bollox. The party that is able to define the conversation about a topic has already won it. Labour isn’t even part oft he Brexit conversation. Not having a convincing alternative narrative about Brexit is the biggest problem for Labour and it is too late to change that.

- Part of C2DE („skilled and unskilled worker“) are not convinced by his approach to the economy. Promising a spending-spree, while taxing „the rich“, is not a universally accepted recipe for success. People want to get opportunities; not just increased benefits, when shit hit the fan. They understand that raising taxes also has downsides, that might affect them negatively.

- Immigration is another emotional issue and many C2DEs want less of it. It is just like with Brexit: Labour conceded all the space to the Torries.

- Corbyn is the prime example of a politician who looks at everything through the lens of class and social justice. That doesn’t work when class based voting is breaking down. His way of framing politics is seriously off-putting for many people.
The people who are most favourable to Corbyn’s narrative are young, progressive and middle class. That might be a cliché, but theguardian.com data supports this view. Yet young progressive middle class people might be fairly vocal on twitter, but they don’t turn out to vote in numbers. Additionally, any party needs to build coalitions between different groups. Yet Corbyn is doing the exact opposite. His supporters constantly engage in these ideological purity tests. That's cancer for any party. Take it from someone whose own political opinion is very far outside the mainstream: My own tribe is constantly doing the same and that's one reason why nobody likes them. It alienates even me, despite agreeing with much of their content.
May is anything but a crowd-pleaser, but she can present herself as pragmatic technocrat. That's what people want; they don’t want somebody who quotes from Das Kapital or hands out the Little Red Book. People joke about „strong and stable“, but it works. Keep it simple and allow the opposition to sabotage itself.

I think so too - nearly all of that.

Tories are far better at occupying the centre ground. Or appearing to do so.
 


Don't know about you, but in the most depressing General Election in a long time, I find it kind of reassuring that the Lib Dems have gone back to the irrelevant niceness that exemplified their politics for so long.

Not exactly irrelevant. Non-biodegradable packaging should be heavily taxed (including polystyrene and the clear plastic bags you get).
 
Hunt behaving like a coward and running away from reporters questions.

He's handled this whole hacking saga by hiding away. Chances have to be high May will give him the boot in the reshuffle when the elections over.


No chance. If May cared at all about the NHS, he wouldn't have been picked to be in her cabinet in the first place. His time under Cameron was nothing but a disaster.

And here's May


We've seen their mental health (and learning disability) policy over the last few years. If you've got two working arms and legs, you're fecked. Constant assessments, them taking the position that most lie and so turn down the applications, then those who fail have to appeal and go through more suffering. Some decide to end it all rather than go through the torture again.
 
People hardly care about long manifestos, but about few catch-phrases and the general tone of a campaign.

- The working class is usually fairly patriotic and considering the circumstances („UK vs EU“), they want someone as leader, who stands up for the UK; not somebody who talks lots idealistic bollox. The party that is able to define the conversation about a topic has already won it. Labour isn’t even part oft he Brexit conversation. Not having a convincing alternative narrative about Brexit is the biggest problem for Labour and it is too late to change that.

- Part of C2DE („skilled and unskilled worker“) are not convinced by his approach to the economy. Promising a spending-spree, while taxing „the rich“, is not a universally accepted recipe for success. People want to get opportunities; not just increased benefits, when shit hit the fan. They understand that raising taxes also has downsides, that might affect them negatively.

- Immigration is another emotional issue and many C2DEs want less of it. It is just like with Brexit: Labour conceded all the space to the Torries.

- Corbyn is the prime example of a politician who looks at everything through the lens of class and social justice. That doesn’t work when class based voting is breaking down. His way of framing politics is seriously off-putting for many people.
The people who are most favourable to Corbyn’s narrative are young, progressive and middle class. That might be a cliché, but theguardian.com data supports this view. Yet young progressive middle class people might be fairly vocal on twitter, but they don’t turn out to vote in numbers. Additionally, any party needs to build coalitions between different groups. Yet Corbyn is doing the exact opposite. His supporters constantly engage in these ideological purity tests. That's cancer for any party. Take it from someone whose own political opinion is very far outside the mainstream: My own tribe is constantly doing the same and that's one reason why nobody likes them. It alienates even me, despite agreeing with much of their content.
May is anything but a crowd-pleaser, but she can present herself as pragmatic technocrat. That's what people want; they don’t want somebody who quotes from Das Kapital or hands out the Little Red Book. People joke about „strong and stable“, but it works. Keep it simple and allow the opposition to sabotage itself.

Good post to be fair. Disagree with a fair bit but at least you didn't use useless slogans this time. Will try respond later but i prob won't be arsed long day and this GE is grating.

Peston is doing a live Q&A with May with a bucket load of questions. Go read her answers, how Corbyn can be worse than that i dont know. She shows no respect for people of this country
 
:lol:

Well done to whoever thought of that one.