Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

breakout67 said:
The Pep effect only works on players with superior talent. You will never see Guardiola win the league with players like Cleverley and Anderson because he cannot work with these players. It would have been impossible for Leicester to win the league if Guardiola was the manager, he can only manage teams that have superior players which play into his tactics.
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Nonsense. Busquets was a 4th division player when he paired him with, even eventually replacing, Yaya Toure.

Same for Pedro & Pique was playing as a backup with United. Hardly players that were considered superior talent at the time when they became key elements of Pep's system.

Same could be said for Kimmich at Bayern
 
FCBarca said:
Nonsense. Busquets was a 4th division player when he paired him with, even eventually replacing, Yaya Toure.

Same for Pedro & Pique was playing as a backup with United. Hardly players that were considered superior talent at the time when they became key elements of Pep's system.

Same could be said for Kimmich at Bayern
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Delph is not doing too badly as a makeshift left back either. Stones - very much derided on here - has become our best defender.
 
FCBarca said:
Nonsense. Busquets was a 4th division player when he paired him with, even eventually replacing, Yaya Toure.

Same for Pedro & Pique was playing as a backup with United. Hardly players that were considered superior talent at the time when they became key elements of Pep's system.

Same could be said for Kimmich at Bayern
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Clearly wrong there. Not surprising.
 
FCBarca said:
Someone's wrong, hard to imagine a superior talent being a backup or sold for £4 million but not surprising
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Eh? He was back up to arguably the best CB pairing of last decade. He had only year left on the contract and he was young player. Yeah, someone's wrong and it's not me.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Have you forgotten who he was backup to? Good luck disposessing those two.
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I think you've forgotten what the point was then because it had nothing to do with Rio or Vidic but whether said player was a superior talent at Pep's disposal as you suggested. Being a backup and being sold for 4 million would suggest otherwise
 
FCBarca said:
I think you've forgotten what the point was then because it had nothing to do with Rio or Vidic but whether said player was a superior talent at Pep's disposal as you suggested. Being a backup and being sold for 4 million would suggest otherwise
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Pique was hyped up for years alongside Giuseppi Rossi, both were considered as top potentially world class players. Circumstances caused him to leave but so did Pogba, for free, it doesn't mean both weren't highly rated.
 
FCBarca said:
Nonsense. Busquets was a 4th division player when he paired him with, even eventually replacing, Yaya Toure.

Same for Pedro & Pique was playing as a backup with United. Hardly players that were considered superior talent at the time when they became key elements of Pep's system.

Same could be said for Kimmich at Bayern
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Nice disingenuous use of 4th division player to describe Busquets and Pedro, et al when what actually occurred was the golden generation of La Masia getting their due reward for years of excellence... We get it, you drink at the alter of Saint Pep, the Patron Saint of Rondos, but he is not a miracle worker and someone who can use the tools already at his disposal, your very own posts last season back that up as well as City's massive outlay this year on the exact positions they were short in.
 
rotherham_red said:
Nice disingenuous use of 4th division player to describe Busquets and Pedro, et al when what actually occurred was the golden generation of La Masia getting their due reward for years of excellence... We get it, you drink at the alter of Saint Pep, the Patron Saint of Rondos, but he is not a miracle worker and someone who can use the tools already at his disposal, your very own posts last season back that up as well as City's massive outlay this year on the exact positions they were short in.
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The consensus on here was that City's priorities were goalkeeper, centre-halves and a defensive midfielder. They bought one player in those three positions. When City play United next weekend they will likely start with two players who were bought during the summer and whose combined cost is less than Lukaku. I reckon Guardiola is doing pretty well with the tools at his disposal.
 
el magico said:
The consensus on here was that City's priorities were goalkeeper, centre-halves and a defensive midfielder. They bought one player in those three positions. When City play United next weekend they will likely start with two players who were bought during the summer and whose combined cost is less than Lukaku. I reckon Guardiola is doing pretty well with the tools at his disposal.
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Your priorities were definitely full-back after you let four of them go. It really doesn't matter if you choose to start the players you bought or not, money spent is money spent.
 
Akshay said:
Your priorities were definitely full-back after you let four of them go. It really doesn't matter if you choose to start the players you bought or not, money spent is money spent.
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Nope. Before City released the four full-backs the priorities, as seen on here, were as I described (see threads on Stones and comments re Bravo and Gundogan/Toure/Matic). My comment regarding two new players starting was a response to the quoted comment that Pep was not a miracle worker as he merely bought players. As stated, there will probably only being two new players starting next week, the point being that Guardiola is working wonders with the existing group of players. Rotherham red can remain in denial about Pep's abilities should he choose to do so.
 
Akshay said:
Your priorities were definitely full-back after you let four of them go. It really doesn't matter if you choose to start the players you bought or not, money spent is money spent.
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True, but is it not likely that United would have spent another 40m had Inter dropped their asking price for Peresic last summer?
You would have been quite happy to out spend us if you'd have got the players you wanted at the cost you thought fair.
 
el magico said:
The consensus on here was that City's priorities were goalkeeper, centre-halves and a defensive midfielder. They bought one player in those three positions. When City play United next weekend they will likely start with two players who were bought during the summer and whose combined cost is less than Lukaku. I reckon Guardiola is doing pretty well with the tools at his disposal.
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So well that he then spent 200m or thereabouts this summer? Considering the fact that Pellegrini took that squad to the Champions League semi final as well as winning the League Cup, and Pep was thoroughly embarrassed by Monaco in the R16 and also finished plotless the season after, with his little cherries on top included, I'd say he was pretty much embarrassed and his subsequent summer transfer spree this summer has proven him to be a chequebook manager, which is no disgrace, except when Pep's fans and others denigrate Jose for being exactly the same... Almost a case of the pot calling the kettle black, one might argue.

Also, you're wrong on the consensus. Fullbacks were the biggest priority this summer for them, and should have been the priority the season before as well but Pep probably believed his own hype and thought he could elevate their level, which as I said before, and last season proves, he most definitely couldn't.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
True, but is it not likely that United would have spent another 40m had Inter dropped their asking price for Peresic last summer?
You would have been quite happy to out spend us if you'd have got the players you wanted at the cost you thought fair.
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Of course. I've got no problem with spending money if you've got it to improve the team. There's nothing noble about losing because you're stingy a la Arsenal.

el magico said:
Nope. Before City released the four full-backs the priorities, as seen on here, were as I described (see threads on Stones and comments re Bravo and Gundogan/Toure/Matic). My comment regarding two new players starting was a response to the quoted comment that Pep was not a miracle worker as he merely bought players. As stated, there will probably only being two new players starting next week, the point being that Guardiola is working wonders with the existing group of players. Rotherham red can remain in denial about Pep's abilities should he choose to do so.
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I don't really call a coach who spends hundreds of millions to improve his team from 4th to 1st over two seasons a 'miracle worker'. Maybe we have very different understandings of that term. Ranieri winning Leicester the league is a miracle worker, or SAF winning with Aberdeen.

Several of your players have improved from last season, like Stones, but it's not exactly a miracle given he was a 50m rated player when Pep bought him. A miracle would be taking a 6m striker no one had previously heard of, not even playing in Europe, and turning him into a prolific goalscorer within half a season. Pretty sure you can work out who I'm talking about there ;).
 
Righteous Steps said:
Pique was hyped up for years alongside Giuseppi Rossi, both were considered as top potentially world class players. Circumstances caused him to leave but so did Pogba, for free, it doesn't mean both weren't highly rated.
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Pogba was running out a contract, he wasn't sold - had he been, it would've been for a large fee due to his potential. Potential that would put him in that superior talent category, not Pique. Geri was sold and not for a fee that reflected a superior young talent in that market, not a transfer that would've registered so much as a blip in terms of media coverage. So no, not considered a superior talent

Ironic too since the knock on him at United was that while assured on the ball, he wasn't considered a good defender even behind O'Shea in the pecking order
 
rotherham_red said:
Nice disingenuous use of 4th division player to describe Busquets and Pedro, et al when what actually occurred was the golden generation of La Masia getting their due reward for years of excellence... We get it, you drink at the alter of Saint Pep, the Patron Saint of Rondos, but he is not a miracle worker and someone who can use the tools already at his disposal, your very own posts last season back that up as well as City's massive outlay this year on the exact positions they were short in.
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I get it, he can do no right but doesn't change the facts - Busquets, Pedro, Jeffren & Sanchez were all 4th division players that Pep brought up from when he coached there and got them promoted
 
The 4th division bit here is about the Barca B team that plays there right?
 
FCBarca said:
At the time in 07-08 when Guardiola coached them, yes
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Why not just refer to them as youth players? Surely you don't think Guardiola needs such ridiculous play with facts to look good as a coach?
 
Varun said:
Why not just refer to them as youth players? Surely you don't think Guardiola needs such ridiculous play with facts to look good as a coach?
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Because the difference between the 4th division level player and a 2nd division one that is just a step away from senior football is enormous, it's hardly a play with facts - it is a fact. I don't know how similar League Two level players are to Championship ones but I doubt they are filled with U18 players
 
"I do believe they are going to slip up at some point. Some day I hope they are going to slip and I hope, and I know that it’s bad to say things like that, but I hope for us that some very important players get injured like what is happening with us because when people doesn’t see it but when you have important players that get injured and missing important games. If that happens to them as well then maybe it will get a little bit different, a little touch that makes them weaker." - Paul Pogba

Could you imagine if Pep or City player had said this about United? Wishing injury on other professional is disgraceful. Should be a new thread called "the state of Pogba".
 
Yeah that's very shit of Pogba, quite disgraceful hoping for injuries on fellow professionals.

They've had injuries to Aguero, Otamendi, Mendy, Stones and Kompany throughout the season anyway. I'm sure I've missed a few.

Very nasty mentality.
 
PepsiCola said:
Yeah that's very shit of Pogba, quite disgraceful hoping for injuries on fellow professionals.

They've had injuries to Aguero, Otamendi, Mendy, Stones and Kompany throughout the season anyway. I'm sure I've missed a few.

Very nasty mentality.
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Injuries only count if you drop points didn’t you know? In all seriousness though City have had a fair share of injuries and still do. There’d be cries of “Small time” all over if De Bruyne was coming out with that nonsense, says a lot about the player really.
 
TotalFootballOne said:
"I do believe they are going to slip up at some point. Some day I hope they are going to slip and I hope, and I know that it’s bad to say things like that, but I hope for us that some very important players get injured like what is happening with us because when people doesn’t see it but when you have important players that get injured and missing important games. If that happens to them as well then maybe it will get a little bit different, a little touch that makes them weaker." - Paul Pogba

Could you imagine if Pep or City player had said this about United? Wishing injury on other professional is disgraceful. Should be a new thread called "the state of Pogba".
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where is this from?
 
TotalFootballOne said:
"I do believe they are going to slip up at some point. Some day I hope they are going to slip and I hope, and I know that it’s bad to say things like that, but I hope for us that some very important players get injured like what is happening with us because when people doesn’t see it but when you have important players that get injured and missing important games. If that happens to them as well then maybe it will get a little bit different, a little touch that makes them weaker." - Paul Pogba

Could you imagine if Pep or City player had said this about United? Wishing injury on other professional is disgraceful. Should be a new thread called "the state of Pogba".
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Surely he didn't say that? Maybe the meaning got lost in translation or something.
 
I have a hard time believing he said that. He probably tried to bring across that City would struggle more with injuries like us, and somehow it got lost in translation.
 
Whoo, that is not good, Pogba.

Still convinced from his stumbling English that he didn't mean it as it came across, but still a stupid thing to say.
 
TotalFootballOne said:
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Sad on a different level. Where is this mentality coming from. I've always maintained that anyone that relies on the calamity of their opponents to their advantage is only trying to mask and deny their own failures.


We don't need city to slip before we do our jobs, we are Manchester United. We do our jobs regardless.
 
Of course he didn't mean it like that you empty blue twats.
 
He acknowledges it's a bad thing to wish for but still conveys that he hopes City players get injured. He's an adult and he knows what he's saying here.

It's an absolutely nasty mentality to have. Agree with the sentiment of @dichinero - he's making it seem we won't be able to catch city at their best.
 
Pogba probably sees us dropping like flies for 2 years now and knows first hand how disruptive it can be.
Boo hoo, he didn't wish death or permanent injury ffs.
Now if he sets out to injure players thats different altogether
 
PepsiCola said:
He acknowledges it's a bad thing to wish for but still conveys that he hopes City players get injured. He's an adult and he knows what he's saying here.

It's an absolutely nasty mentality to have. Agree with the sentiment of @dichinero - he's making it seem we won't be able to catch city at their best.
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In reality I think its more him saying "if they had to deal with what we had" the playing field would be much more level, just badly worded.
 
padr81 said:
In reality I think its more him saying "if they had to deal with what we had" the playing field would be much more level, just badly worded.
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Exactly, you can hear from his dictation that his English isn't spot on.

Not very wise anyhow, he should know how it would be perceived.
 
dichinero said:
Sad on a different level. Where is this mentality coming from. I've always maintained that anyone that relies on the calamity of their opponents to their advantage is only trying to mask and deny their own failures.
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Take a look at the thread at the main forum, unfortunately some fans think that deliberately injuring players is a legitimate game plan. I think it's a sad consequence of identifying with opportunistic, reactive, win at all costs approach to the game.
 
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padr81 said:
And how did he mean it you empty red twat?
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He obviously means the possibility of injuries, amongst other things, could give your uncatchable looking team vulnerability. Poor choice of words but dont make him out to praying all the city players get kneecapped.
 
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