Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

Give me a break the guy has spent a couple of hundred million on defence in 18 months and now wants to go out and splash more of the oil money because of some injuries. Can only imagine how some managers without that unlimited money feel hearing him moan about injuries while they try get results with what they have.But yeah ferguson signing two bargains that one time 13 years ago is the same thing and the way he managed the squad through annual defensive "crisis" in title winning years is irrelevant. Guardiola will win everything once you keep filling his pockets

Wrong observation. He spent money on defence because he had no full backs and a goalie who failed miserably.
Which Centreback did PEP buy for City?????...NONE.

He fixed what was unavailable/broken in the past year.

City tried to sell Mangala but when he didnt leave, they kind of involved him into their plan.
But Kompany and Stones injury plus Mangala's poor quality has made him rethink and rightly so.

People pointing out how much money we spent on defence need to understand that we had none because all our fullbacks departed.
 
On a second note, John Stones was bought under PEP's regime, but Kompany's injury record still justifies his needs.
 
We have two fit recognised full-backs, a central midfielder playing as a left-back, and Mangala for cover in the middle. I think Pep's justified if he wants another defender.
 
Wrong observation. He spent money on defence because he had no full backs and a goalie who failed miserably.
Which Centreback did PEP buy for City?????...NONE.

He fixed what was unavailable/broken in the past year.

City tried to sell Mangala but when he didnt leave, they kind of involved him into their plan.
But Kompany and Stones injury plus Mangala's poor quality has made him rethink and rightly so.

People pointing out how much money we spent on defence need to understand that we had none because all our fullbacks departed.
Didn't Pep sign Stones?
 
It's crazy the amount of revisionism on here.

Last season when Stones was bought he was called a fraud and Sterling was awful as well. People mocked him for getting Walker who was riding spurs bench and Danilo was getting abused by Madrid fans for being crap. Now here we are, Stones is the next Baresi, Sterling is the second coming of Robben and walker is the next Cafu. Unbelievable.
 
Last season when Stones was bought he was called a fraud and Sterling was awful as well. People mocked him for getting Walker who was riding spurs bench and Danilo was getting abused by Madrid fans for being crap. Now here we are, Stones is the next Baresi, Sterling is the second coming of Robben and walker is the next Cafu. Unbelievable.
Amazing isn't it, anything to deny Pep the credit he deserves. Firstly City have had a blank cheque for years and in that period have never been this good. Then this team really is devoid of to many superstars as you say. Sterling, Delph, Fernandinho, Otamendi are from what you'd regard as stars. In fact, the only world class players In their squad would probably be Aguero, Silva and KDB and that's about it.

Another point that's often missed in this aim to try to discredit the work Pep has done is lots of their signings this past window haven't contributed all that much this season. B.Silva hasn't played much, Mendy has been injured forever. Only Ederson and Walker have been mainstay's.
 
It's crazy the amount of revisionism on here.

Last season when Stones was bought he was called a fraud and Sterling was awful as well. People mocked him for getting Walker who was riding spurs bench and Danilo was getting abused by Madrid fans for being crap. Now here we are, Stones is the next Baresi, Sterling is the second coming of Robben and walker is the next Cafu. Unbelievable.

Agreed.

This team easily could finish 3rd or 4th under another manager. Like the person above has been saying, they have had a blank cheque for a long time.

Guardiola has been outstanding.
 
It's crazy the amount of revisionism on here.

Last season when Stones was bought he was called a fraud and Sterling was awful as well. People mocked him for getting Walker who was riding spurs bench and Danilo was getting abused by Madrid fans for being crap. Now here we are, Stones is the next Baresi, Sterling is the second coming of Robben and walker is the next Cafu. Unbelievable.
Danilo is still diabolic though, so that's a win for us
 
Far from proven atm. The big sides in Europe take this football thing seriously. There is no way they'll ever play against one of the other big boys away from home and face long hopeful balls and 0 shots at goal for the first 40 minutes of the match while they have 75% of the ball.

Don't think they'll ever have a better chance of winning the CL than this season. They've had an easy run so far with Napoli proritising the league, & now Basel in the next round. Real, Barca & Bayern are not the teams they were & a big gun goes out due to the Real - PSG draw. If their general luck with injuries & decisions holds out they'll be hard to stop.
 
Don't think they'll ever have a better chance of winning the CL than this season. They've had an easy run so far with Napoli proritising the league, & now Basel in the next round. Real, Barca & Bayern are not the teams they were & a big gun goes out due to the Real - PSG draw. If their general luck with injuries & decisions holds out they'll be hard to stop.
Bayern have had a resurgence due to obvious reasons and having seen Madrid against Sevilla, I reckon those teams are still very strong. There were moments against Napoli that showed their greatness could be in question, against a side with more quality they'd be in real trouble.
 
Agreed.

This team easily could finish 3rd or 4th under another manager. Like the person above has been saying, they have had a blank cheque for a long time.

Guardiola has been outstanding.

It's quite obvious that they play a completely different brand of football since this season and look like a real Guardiola team now. Last season the engine wasn't as fine tuned as it is now but you could already see his influence on the team. People who say it's only the fact that hes has the best players that makes his teams so great are either ignorant or have and agenda against him, which is somewhat understandable considering that he manages our biggest rival right now.
 
If Guardiola wins the league this season, then he has a 1 in 2 hit for league titles. He would then have to win the league back-to-back to better Pellegrini's record. Bear in mind that City sabotaged Pellegrini's 3rd season by announcing Guardiola half way through the season. City were like a house on fire in the first half of 15/16 but dropped massively in the 2nd half and the announcement contributed to that.

Pep is currently on 0 trophies, Pellegrini got 3 trophies in 3 seasons, and Mancini got 2 in 4.

I have to question someone's judgement if they think Mancini or Pellegrini wouldnt win the league with the money spent by Guardiola, because they did.
 
If Guardiola wins the league this season, then he has a 1 in 2 hit for league titles. He would then have to win the league back-to-back to better Pellegrini's record. Bear in mind that City sabotaged Pellegrini's 3rd season by announcing Guardiola half way through the season. City were like a house on fire in the first half of 15/16 but dropped massively in the 2nd half and the announcement contributed to that.
Excuse
Pep is currently on 0 trophies, Pellegrini got 3 trophies in 3 seasons, and Mancini got 2 in 4.

I have to question someone's judgement if they think Mancini or Pellegrini wouldnt win the league with the money spent by Guardiola, because they did.
Neither came close to 95 points which is what we are expecting. Neither broke records like this also. This team is far better than any of their sides. We superseded them just by signing Van Persie
 
Neither came close to 95 points which is what we are expecting. Neither broke records like this also. This team is far better than any of their sides. We superseded them just by signing Van Persie
95 points or not it will be one title.
 
If Guardiola wins the league this season, then he has a 1 in 2 hit for league titles. He would then have to win the league back-to-back to better Pellegrini's record. Bear in mind that City sabotaged Pellegrini's 3rd season by announcing Guardiola half way through the season. City were like a house on fire in the first half of 15/16 but dropped massively in the 2nd half and the announcement contributed to that.

I'm sorry but that's just totally not true, City in Pellegrini's third season were always going only one direction and boy it wasn't forwards. I can only assume that the fact this gets repeated made it somehow a true claim so you've fallen into the trap, and it's not about undermining Guardiola's stint at City. :)
 
I have to question someone's judgement if they think Mancini or Pellegrini wouldnt win the league with the money spent by Guardiola, because they did.
There's winning the league and then there's turning the league into a stroll in the park, virtually a Bundesliga replica. If you can't see that what he's built is quite obviously better than anything those other two managers did then I really don't know what to say.
 
Also Guardiola was announced before time at Bayern too and they proceeded to win every competition they were in.
 
95 points or not it will be one title.
The problem with that mentality is if they do break records and so on chances are the next season they'll still be great, and so on. We know that cause we support a club that dominated era's. If you saw his side in 08/09 you'd have been a fool not to have them as favorites for the next few titles as well. The only thing that'll change that is if us and Chelsea and provide some resistance.
 
I'm sorry but that's just totally not true, City in Pellegrini's third season were always going only one direction and boy it wasn't forwards. I can only assume that the fact this gets repeated made it somehow a true claim so you've fallen into the trap, and it's not about undermining Guardiola's stint at City. :)

Eh? Its not as if I've given Pellegrini an extra title just because he had a good half season, it was just an off the cuff comment, and I don't rate Pellegrini as a manager.

Pellegrini's biggest achievement before coming to Man City was a Serie A title in 1999. It is indisputable fact that A LOT of managers can win the league with the money that City have spent.

This notion that this team is ordinary and Guardiola is working magic with them is nonsense. The main credit to Guardiola is the style in which they are playing, most top managers would be top of the league or thereabouts with this City team.
 
Eh? Its not as if I've given Pellegrini an extra title just because he had a good half season, it was just an off the cuff comment, and I don't rate Pellegrini as a manager.

Pellegrini's biggest achievement before coming to Man City was a Serie A title in 1999. It is indisputable fact that A LOT of managers can win the league with the money that City have spent.

This notion that this team is ordinary and Guardiola is working magic with them is nonsense. The main credit to Guardiola is the style in which they are playing, most top managers would be top of the league or thereabouts with this City team.

That's news to me
 
The problem with that mentality is if they do break records and so on chances are the next season they'll still be great, and so on. We know that cause we support a club that dominated era's. If you saw his side in 08/09 you'd have been a fool not to have them as favorites for the next few titles as well. The only thing that'll change that is if us and Chelsea and provide some resistance.
That's the thing though. You can't just compare and say United dominated then and City will dominate now. Different years, different circumstances and different opposition.
 
If Guardiola wins the league this season, then he has a 1 in 2 hit for league titles. He would then have to win the league back-to-back to better Pellegrini's record. Bear in mind that City sabotaged Pellegrini's 3rd season by announcing Guardiola half way through the season. City were like a house on fire in the first half of 15/16 but dropped massively in the 2nd half and the announcement contributed to that.

Pep is currently on 0 trophies, Pellegrini got 3 trophies in 3 seasons, and Mancini got 2 in 4.

I have to question someone's judgement if they think Mancini or Pellegrini wouldnt win the league with the money spent by Guardiola, because they did.

This isn't really true though - City were already in meddling form when the announcement was made and hadn't won back-to-back games since October. They almost certainly wouldn't have won the league anyway barring a remarkable upturn in fortunes.
 
That's news to me

It was the Seria A in a feeder league. Maybe you prefer the Intertoto Cup he won with some spanish team. Pellegrini is not a good manager, and he won the league with City. Winning the league with City is not the holy grail like some seem to think, it is not a great achievement. Its been proven that when you have the money City do, a bang average manager can win the league with them.
 
95 points or not it will be one title.
neither played football anything like this or dominated in this manner. Here's an example. Rijkaards Barca won 2 league titles. The moment we played Peps, I knew we were seeing a different level. If you think Mancini or Pellegrino are as capable as Pep, based on their previous City wins, then I don't know what to tell you. It's over for you.
 
It's just as much nonsense as thinking that Pep can only win games because he always hast the best team and that team wins by itself. It's a mixture of both. Pep can take a good team and make it great or a great team and make it legendary.

Well good thing I never said that. Its obvious that Pep does something unique when he has the best players; his strong point is the ability to work with top players. He is like a Ferrari in that sense.
 
Well good thing I never said that. Its obvious that Pep does something unique when he has the best players; his strong point is the ability to work with top players. He is like a Ferrari in that sense.
Sterling, Sane and Jesus are promising youngsters. They are not prime Robben, Ribery and Lewandoski. far from it. He does not have the top 5 in their position throughout his team. He can improve players and even convert them. Lahm and Silva were both converted to untouchable centre midfielders
 
Wrong observation. He spent money on defence because he had no full backs and a goalie who failed miserably.
Which Centreback did PEP buy for City?????...NONE.

He fixed what was unavailable/broken in the past year.

City tried to sell Mangala but when he didnt leave, they kind of involved him into their plan.
But Kompany and Stones injury plus Mangala's poor quality has made him rethink and rightly so.

People pointing out how much money we spent on defence need to understand that we had none because all our fullbacks departed.

Stones for 55m. Did Guardiola sign him.

Yes he has bought what's been needed, well done. City have spent 265m on gk and defenders in the last three seasons. That you choose to be touchy about that is not my problem
 
I find this argument so tedious. Can we really blame or look down on other clubs for trying to reach the status of an elite club? That's like saying: you're poor, you don't belong among our group of elite clubs and you will never belong, you'll just have to accept it. Or give them the impossible task of trying to get into that elite group without access to the ridiculous funds said clubs have because of their history. That's just silly. As if it's all been an easy ride for City. It used to be a titanic struggle for them just to maintain the status of being a Premier League club. I can't find it in me to blame them for how they reached their current level. They're here now and they've turned into a well run football club. We shouldn't be dismissing them, we should strive to become better than them.

I whole heartedly agree. Honestly I think people who subscribe to the former line of thinking use it as a stick to discredit the achievements and success of city, as if a team like city winning titles suddenly turns the trophies into play-doh or make believe. It's just such a pretentious point of view. Now if someone where to say that a team like city winning isn't as "romantic" as a historically great side winning then I guess thats a fair point but then that becomes a subjective romanticizing of football as a whole.
 
neither played football anything like this or dominated in this manner. Here's an example. Rijkaards Barca won 2 league titles. The moment we played Peps, I knew we were seeing a different level. If you think Mancini or Pellegrino are as capable as Pep, based on their previous City wins, then I don't know what to tell you. It's over for you.
I didn't say Mancini and Pellegrini are as capable. Just that 95 points or not that will make just a first title.
 
Stones for 55m. Did Guardiola sign him.

Yes he has bought what's been needed, well done. City have spent 265m on gk and defenders in the last three seasons. That you choose to be touchy about that is not my problem
So, it is crazy to spend 265m on 2 gk and 5 defenders but it is acceptable to spend 180m on 1 striker and 1 midfielder(Pogba and Lukaku)?
Then why did United paid 30M for Rio Ferdinand 15 years ago?
 
My observations about Pep.

Clearly, Pep is an exceptionally innovative manager. He has a very clear idea in his mind about what he wants to achieve and the players he will need to achieve it. From what I understand, Pep has spent years studying football as well as other sports, obsessed with the idea of creating space and attacking patterns.

Pep also brings an aura to the club. Obviously City were rich before and could sign 95% of the players in world football but now with Pep at the helm they almost have that extra bit of credibility and I could see Neymar ending up at City before long.

Now what I am going to criticise Pep for are two things - one is his record in the transfer market the other is his lack of flexibility.

Throughout his career Pep has always had the biggest chequebook at each of his clubs. Despite that, he has made many, many very poor signings. Most managers have to make a decision - do I sign a RB this summer or a LB? Not Pep, he signs both plus an extra just in case. Do I stick with Bravo, the keeper I paid £25m for or bring back Hart who I booted out? Not Pep, he will just try again and buy another. No other club in England has this luxury and I would be interested to see how far Pep would have progressed City had he had a budget of £150m per year like Jose from the beginning

As far as lack of flexibility goes, Pep only has one way of playing. We saw this when they took on Monaco in the CL last year. They just needed not to be hammered and they would go through but Pep was incapable of closing the game out. Will this cost them against a PSG or a Real Madrid later on in this seasons CL? It’s fair to say that Pep is great at making great players better, which makes the argument about “could he manage Stoke” a bit moot, but still for the sake of an experiment I would love to see whether he can coach his method into average sides or whether it’s for a very niche market
 
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/15/manchester-city-football-group-ferran-soriano

Just read that piece. Eerie.

Sorry I know it’s a long article, but basically goes onto outline what City’s Owen era view as the future for football clubs and what needs to be done to thrive in a world filled with growing “super” clubs

Its possible success could lead many clubs to try and form their own “multi-national” corporate structures.
 
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My observations about Pep.

Clearly, Pep is an exceptionally innovative manager. He has a very clear idea in his mind about what he wants to achieve and the players he will need to achieve it. From what I understand, Pep has spent years studying football as well as other sports, obsessed with the idea of creating space and attacking patterns.

Pep also brings an aura to the club. Obviously City were rich before and could sign 95% of the players in world football but now with Pep at the helm they almost have that extra bit of credibility and I could see Neymar ending up at City before long.

Now what I am going to criticise Pep for are two things - one is his record in the transfer market the other is his lack of flexibility.

Throughout his career Pep has always had the biggest chequebook at each of his clubs. Despite that, he has made many, many very poor signings. Most managers have to make a decision - do I sign a RB this summer or a LB? Not Pep, he signs both plus an extra just in case. Do I stick with Bravo, the keeper I paid £25m for or bring back Hart who I booted out? Not Pep, he will just try again and buy another. No other club in England has this luxury and I would be interested to see how far Pep would have progressed City had he had a budget of £150m per year like Jose from the beginning

As far as lack of flexibility goes, Pep only has one way of playing. We saw this when they took on Monaco in the CL last year. They just needed not to be hammered and they would go through but Pep was incapable of closing the game out. Will this cost them against a PSG or a Real Madrid later on in this seasons CL? It’s fair to say that Pep is great at making great players better, which makes the argument about “could he manage Stoke” a bit moot, but still for the sake of an experiment I would love to see whether he can coach his method into average sides or whether it’s for a very niche market
How do you know that Jose or any other coach only have a budget of £150m per year ?

No Pep doesn't only have one way of playing, i think people say this because his main idea is to have more possession than the opponent. Other than that, you only had to take a deeper look at his Bayern team and compare to his Barca team to see that there were differences in the way they played. His city team is a mix of both, a mix of possession football and a very direct attacking football.

Against Monaco, the player on the pitch were responsible for not closing out the game when they could have. Monaco's 3rd goal came in a 2nd half where City was completely dominating the match and Monaco players could barely come out of their own half. This season though, they seem to be way more clinical in their finishing.
 
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