I'm not sure if it's any consolation but be assured that other countries (even in the 27) have very similar audiences with similar grievances and the same response when asked how they would handle it. It appears a large portion of any electorate think their job is done once they've articulated a grievance.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
next meeting tuesday - well certainly nothing is going to happen between now and then other than positions becoming more entrenched... I wonder if anybody will challenge May for the leadership before brexit... or if they will just wait till after to avoid having to actually try and negotiate a deal?
Im thinking it could be a fractious conference and perhaps somebody might try a challenge early before the big post brexit bun fight for next leader starts (johnson, mogg, gove all bubmling about moaning at whatever the outcome is as somehow May failed to restore the empire to its peak (presumably starting wars to make countries sell opium for us and slave trade etc)
Of course, but you cannot expect the man on the street to know how to get that deal but you might expect that the party who called for it in the first place might have a general plan of attack 2 years on from the vote.
There is no possible outcome that won’t result in a huge amount of anger and a serious economic hit. They’d have to be out of their minds to take that job just before the tsunami hits.
At least if they take over just after, they can just pile the blame for the failures on May, even though they carry plenty of the responsibility themselves. Plenty of the public think we have a presidencial system anyway.
Well that is what we (well me, but I assume you too) thought, but the tories taught us that the man on the street doesn't even notice whether a general plan exists or not... Just over half of him will still vote tory regardless and when asked say something akin to "you're doing bad, do better!" like the one in question time.
in some ways I agree with you - but if Gove or Johnson dont think they could beat Mogg for example after brexit (as he will say both were involved in the deal which whatever the deal is he will say is the worst deal ever etc etc... so I could see Johnson for example quitting the cabinet and mounting a challenge this summer... and even if unsuccessful it distances him from the eventual deal
You could be right. I keep forgetting Mogg is supposedly now a hugely influential figure in the Tory party, rather than the ridiculous parody of an 18th century toff that he’s always been. Our country is so fecked.
I have this image of the cabinet riding on a conveyor belt fighting with each other and none of them notice that the end of the conveyor belt overhangs the cliff and they all fall off into the sea.
I don't see it ever being resolved and the UK will just drift off out of the EU next March or May / whoever replaces her , seems extremely unlikely, calls the whole thing off.
It's a fair point, isn't it?
People will go on about agenda and give me some bullshit excuse about political suicide.
The lib Dems got 8% in the last election, it's not a bullshit excuse but simple politics.
Lib Dems broke a manifesto promise .Labour will do nothing like that. I'm not even saying the should throw away the referendum but it's not even clear if the party is opposed to hard Brexit.
They would if they were to do ''oppose it properly''(Whatever that actually means)
Yeah I would agree that Labour position is rubbish.
This thread is a somewhat explanation of Labour position and I posted last week a FT story about the EU being more worried about the left wing uk government than the tories(Worry about the spread of socialism
).The whole situation is a shit show but as I've many times I've yet to hear from anyone who offer a better and not completely destroy the Labour Party.
This is for the younger generation:
In his LBC phone-in Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Conservative Brexiter, claimed that Brexit offered particularly good opportunities for young people. He said:
I think in terms of the Brexit debate that the great opportunities for everybody, but particularly the younger generation, are in leaving and looking to the broader horizon of the rest of the world rather than the narrow closed protectionist European field. For younger people, leaving is the best opportunity that they could have.
In his LBC phone-in Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Conservative Brexiter, claimed that Brexit offered particularly good opportunities for young people. He said:
I think in terms of the Brexit debate that the great opportunities for everybody, but particularly the younger generation, are in leaving and looking to the broader horizon of the rest of the world rather than the narrow closed protectionist European field. For younger people, leaving is the best opportunity that they could have.
Does he actually provide any substance to that argument? I'm guessing not...
Doubtful, as I have yet to hear any Brexiter state any specific benefit of Brexit.
Not true they have claimed many specific benefits such as
And the fact its not true shouldnt be a shock - I mean they are fed up of experts etc
I'm now curious to hear his proposals for a) How he intends to make it easier for young people to go and work in other non-EU countries, and b) Why those countries offer a better opportunity for young people than European countries would.
One way freedom of movement. Fits in with the Brexit Cake strategy; im sure countries around the world will be desperate to sign up.
Not true they have claimed many specific benefits such as
And the fact its not true shouldnt be a shock - I mean they are fed up of experts etc
Yes, I should have said specific benefits that are not lies.
You do realise that the bus is a figment of your imagination, Brexiters denied knowledge of its existence shortly thereafter.
Probably when they sign their free trade deal with India allowing Indians and Brits freedom of movement between both countries.
I read that as young brits should get the feck out of dodge as quickly as possible before it all goes to shit. Don’t bother looking in Europe because they won’t have you
Leaving customs union properly is most popular post-Brexit customs option, poll suggests
We’ve got some new Guardian/ICM polling out today. And its good news (ish) for Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg
Customs union
First, we asked about the customs union. As the psephologist John Curtice explained in a recent blog for What UK Thinks, the existing polling on this topic is not very satisfactory. If you ask people if they are in favour of customs checks for people and goods coming from the EU, they tend to say yes. But if you ask people if they are in favour of staying in the customs union (which would remove the need for said checks), they also say yes. “One feature of the polling and survey evidence to date is that few pollsters and researchers have dared attempt to ask voters specifically about what customs arrangement the UK should have with the EU,” Curtice says.
Well, we had a go. We asked people which of these three statements on customs after Brexit they most agreed with. The results were:
It is very important to leave the customs union properly, so the UK can strike its own trade deals: 35%
It is very important to stay in the customs union, so firms can trade with the EU more easily: 24%
The best solution might involve some sort of compromise, perhaps along the lines of the customs partnership, because the alternative proposals are both flawed: 26%
We did not put names to the three options, but ‘leaving the customs union properly’ is the position associated with Tories like Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, or Jacob Rees-Mogg, head of the 60-strong European Research Group. Staying in the customs union is the Labour party position. And a compromise seems to be what Theresa May wants. She argues that the customs partnership, supposedly her favoured option, does involve leaving the customs union properly, but Brexiters don’t accept that, which is why we mentioned it in this context.
Extending the transition
The post-Brexit transition period is due to come to an end in December 2020 but there has been a lot of speculation that it will have to be extended. Damian Green, the former first secretary of state, became the latest person to float this idea at the weekend. Downing Street insists this will not happen, although there have been some hints that they could shift.
We told respondents there was talk of the transition being extended to allow new customs arrangements to be introduced and asked them if they would support or oppose this. Here are the results.
Polling on extending the transition.
While views are fairly evenly split, more of the British public oppose (43%) than support (38%) extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020. These views are polarised along party and EU referendum lines: two-thirds (67%) of 2016 Leave voters and 3 in 5 (62%) of those intending to vote Conservative oppose extending the transition period, whereas three in five (59%) 2016 Remain voters and almost half (49%) of those intending to vote Labour support extending the transition period.
Voting intention
The tables will go up on the ICM website later today. I will post a link here when they are available.
ICM Unlimited interviewed a representative online sample of 2,050 adults aged 18+, between 11 and 13 May 2018. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
We’ve got some new Guardian/ICM polling out today. And its good news (ish) for Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg
Customs union
First, we asked about the customs union. As the psephologist John Curtice explained in a recent blog for What UK Thinks, the existing polling on this topic is not very satisfactory. If you ask people if they are in favour of customs checks for people and goods coming from the EU, they tend to say yes. But if you ask people if they are in favour of staying in the customs union (which would remove the need for said checks), they also say yes. “One feature of the polling and survey evidence to date is that few pollsters and researchers have dared attempt to ask voters specifically about what customs arrangement the UK should have with the EU,” Curtice says.
Well, we had a go. We asked people which of these three statements on customs after Brexit they most agreed with. The results were:
It is very important to leave the customs union properly, so the UK can strike its own trade deals: 35%
It is very important to stay in the customs union, so firms can trade with the EU more easily: 24%
The best solution might involve some sort of compromise, perhaps along the lines of the customs partnership, because the alternative proposals are both flawed: 26%
We did not put names to the three options, but ‘leaving the customs union properly’ is the position associated with Tories like Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, or Jacob Rees-Mogg, head of the 60-strong European Research Group. Staying in the customs union is the Labour party position. And a compromise seems to be what Theresa May wants. She argues that the customs partnership, supposedly her favoured option, does involve leaving the customs union properly, but Brexiters don’t accept that, which is why we mentioned it in this context.
- The post-Brexit customs policy championed by Brexiters like Boris Johnson is most popular with voters, the poll suggests. A third of voters want a customs policy that prioritises leaving the customs union properly, while only a quarter of voters want to stay in a customs union, while another quarter favour a compromise. But you could also read the figures as showing that 50% of voters are opposed to a clean break with the customs union. Some 15% of respondents said they did not know.
Extending the transition
The post-Brexit transition period is due to come to an end in December 2020 but there has been a lot of speculation that it will have to be extended. Damian Green, the former first secretary of state, became the latest person to float this idea at the weekend. Downing Street insists this will not happen, although there have been some hints that they could shift.
We told respondents there was talk of the transition being extended to allow new customs arrangements to be introduced and asked them if they would support or oppose this. Here are the results.
Polling on extending the transition.
- Nearly half of voters oppose extending the Brexit transition, the poll suggests. Some 43% of people said they were against this idea, even when it was suggested this might be necessary to allow time for new customs arrangements to be introduced. But 38% of people said they were in favour. Another 19% said they did not know.
While views are fairly evenly split, more of the British public oppose (43%) than support (38%) extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020. These views are polarised along party and EU referendum lines: two-thirds (67%) of 2016 Leave voters and 3 in 5 (62%) of those intending to vote Conservative oppose extending the transition period, whereas three in five (59%) 2016 Remain voters and almost half (49%) of those intending to vote Labour support extending the transition period.
Voting intention
- The Conservatives retain a 3-point lead over Labour, the poll suggests. This is unchanged from the 3-point the Tories had in the Guardian/ICM poll two weeks ago.
The tables will go up on the ICM website later today. I will post a link here when they are available.
ICM Unlimited interviewed a representative online sample of 2,050 adults aged 18+, between 11 and 13 May 2018. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
Guardian Poll
Maintain the majority of the British electorate did not and still do not know what they voted for.
People being asked about transition period extension - at this moment there is no chance of a transitional period let alone an extension.
Corbyn is like a striker standing in front of an open goal and misses the target every single time.
Corbyn is completely paralysed. Even the worst of previous Labour leaders would have been laying into the Tories week after week, and Labour would be well ahead in the polls now, not behind as they are.
Asking the British public polling questions about complex issues is utterly pointless. You could ask them whether they'd rather trade with Greenland or Iceland and 50% of the dumb cnuts would say Tesco.
He's paralysed himself. It's a simple case of a leader who has always supported exit from the EU supporting exit from the EU but whose supporters has to pretend there's some kind of unavoidable reason for it.
What get me is the insincerity of those who want to pretend under Corbyn we finally have a left-wing alternative to the Tory option. On the biggest issue of the last 70 years, Corbyn is on the exact same page as the Tories. We just have to pretend otherwise else it's a 'smear', or something.
Thank God at a time of Tory chaos over Brexit we have a leader of the opposition who has the balls to stand up and say: I completely agree with them.
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Thomson Reuters to move its Multilateral Trading Facility to Dublin following Brexit
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...o-dublin-due-to-brexit-idUKKCN1IG1A5?rpc=401&
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...o-dublin-due-to-brexit-idUKKCN1IG1A5?rpc=401&
If Brexit didn't exist, would you prefer Tories to run the country or Labour?
Labour. But Brexit does exist so that's an irrelevant question. I genuinely don't understand the lack of genuine anger at Corbyn's position coming from the left/the young, the vast majority of whom think Brexit was/is/always will be a shit idea. It's akin to the Lib Dem betrayal on tuition fees times a million as it's the whole country being sold down the river.
When was the last time Corbyn (read: not a backbench vote/proposal/groundswell) really nailed the Tories on Brexit? When was the last time he really held them to account on the issue? if people weren't so clouded by borderline idolising him it'd be clear that history will judge his 'opposition' to what could be one of the worst political, economic and social catastrophes to face this country in generations, to be an absolute fecking disgrace.
But he's just the leader of the opposition at a time when the government is divided, doesn't have a working majority on the issue and leader of a party whose MPs, members, voters and natural political allies oppose Brexit in all it's forms. What's a leader supposed to do with such cards stacked against him, eh?
Meanwhile, we will continue with the mental gymnastics.
May could not have wished for more.
Biggest opposition is coninc from within our own party.
Biggest opposition is coninc from within our own party.
Labour need the working class vote in it's homelands like the Midlands and the North East that voted for Brexit. Add to that Corbyn believes in Brexit and you can see why he isn't speaking out against it.
You've made it a brexit question.
Labour had one job on their hands...Corbyn should hang his head in shame by prioritising a quarter of party supporters over vast majority of remainers. What a shambles of the situation.
He's not prioritising anything.
Corbyn wants hard Brexit. That fact is becoming clearer by the day.
So Labour will continue to appease the leave vote. Despite it being perfectly clear it was won by lies and fear. Real principles and all that.
Wonderful party. No wonder the Tories have it so easy.
Wonderful party. No wonder the Tories have it so easy.