Why so much hate for Pogba?

bosnian_red said:
Is it black culture or just modern Instagram culture? Things like the take the L celebration is from fortnite, made hugely popular from memes on Instagram and all that. Griezmann got loads of criticism from acting like an attention seeking twat with the whole transfer saga thing. It's not so much criticism just like most people seriously dont criticize Pogbas haircuts, but Griezmann had some pretty shit haircuts too. People said things, though in the end, he performs better on the pitch so it goes under the "you do you as long as you perform" column. Pogba doesnt perform, so everything he does that is different from the ordinary gets focused on and are little things to cite as reasons for being irritating or things to pick on. It's like an unwritten rule in the minds of many people (very old fashioned thinking of course, but anyway) that any player needs to basically earn his stripes before he can feck around and be in the spotlight. It's why you have so many ex players who in the past have said "he should worry less about his dancing and Instagram videos and more about playing". Like how back in the day they wouldnt let players have flashy boots until they made it past the youth teams. Basically earning the right to do what you want, and before that staying in line and proving your worth.

Not to say I agree with a lot of that, just what I think is more the reason for the hate. He got a record transfer, so much hype, all the fame and always looking for the publicity which makes anyone an easy target, but it gets amplified when you dont perform and Pogba so far has not.

Also I agree that of course the racial issues exist. In some part with Pogba too. For the most part though, hes an easy target because of how much publicity he gets, the money, and then him failing to perform on the pitch. Plenty of players get hated on for whatever reason. People love seeing hyped up players fail just like people love seeing any sort of upset. You become a record transfer and you get dropped? Nothing better for rival fans.
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Very true and yep many of the issues overlap and I guess that's the complexity of it. You are absolutely right in what you've highlighted but the thing for me is when the criticism starts, it's always the same well people go to which is no coincidence as it's the same well for most of the black players when things go wrong. This goes right back to the 70's with the likes of Laurie Cunningham being called for what he was wearing and his greed when his moved to Real from earning £120 a week to £5k. Like you said, many factors that are applicable to many but some are more so than others when it comes to Race. Only months ago, thousands sang at OT about the size of Rom's penis, and yes a bit of fun but again, they aren't signing about the size of DDG's?
 
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Jeppers7 said:
What's that got to do with anything? The over exaggerating of Pogba's performances in general are laughable. The same posters every week talking as if he's some conference standard player, or a player who walks around the pitch for 90 minutes. The only player who got called out for being lazy last season inside OT was Lukaku and rightly so at the time. His attitude was poor. Pogba had a poor run of form. He puts it down to a virus. He may be lying ? Who knows.

That period aside he isn't the problem, if we play better as a team and he doesn't play well. Then he's a problem. As it is everyone had a poor/average season last season bar the keeper.
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Everything. Its the most standard/expected thing in football. If a club breaks a record signing a player, its a statement that "this player is the shit." Said player will be scrutinised to the hilt and the whole league, press/media will be assessing his worth as to whether its money well spent or an expensive flop. Its the same in all other sports mate. A player who a club is willing to break the bank for, will have larger expectations than a free signing. I dunno about the lazy part because I personally don't notice whether he is lazy or not.
 
Stacks said:
Everything. Its the most standard/expected thing in football. If a club breaks a record signing a player, its a statement that "this player is the shit." Said player will be scrutinised to the hilt and the whole league, press/media will be assessing his worth as to whether its money well spent or an expensive flop. Its the same in all other sports mate. A player who a club is willing to break the bank for, will have larger expectations than a free signing. I dunno about the lazy part because I personally don't notice whether he is lazy or not.
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We did well, predicted the change in market.....now a decent centre back will cost £75 million. Lukaku cost £80 million. SMS would cost us £100 million this summer.
 
Jev said:
They're listed as equals on Wiki. Same price in Euros with Dembéle more expensive in pounds due to changed exchange rates.
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Dembele is in front because he had some very easily achievable add-ons. The contract says BVB gets 5m Euros when Dembele reaches 15, 25, 50, 75, 100 apps. Plus 5 when Barca reaches CL qualification (I suppose that is only for 17/18) and another 20m Euros when Barca wins the CL.

105m + 5m for 15 apps + 5m for CL qualification = 115m Euros at the moment

The current list should read as follows

1. Neymar
2. Mbappe
3. Coutinho
4. Dembele
5. Neymar (from Santos to Barca, the legal case has revealed the sum to be around 111m Euros)
6. Pogba
7. Bale
8. CR7

Out of that list, Pogba and Dembele have been the worst deals to date.
 
Marcky411 said:
You are misinterpreting my post, I don’t think so personally I really like Pogba but do believe that he has a hell of a lot more to offer than what we are seeing and getting. My post is what I believe is the reason for all the criticism he is getting, as that is the way he is being perceived in media. In the media and social media you’re always seeing his new hairdo’s, or his dabbing and dancing or his sponsorship responsibilities. You never see him working out in the gym or the training he does on the field. Then every week the world gets to view his performances on the field and react accordingly. Pogba made his WR transfer 2 years ago and under Jose he has regressed instead of taking off and lighting up the sky like everyone expected and that just fuels the fire for criticism.
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That's absolutely false
 
We had Materazzi and Immobile on the main WC show on Italian TV yesterday. Materazzi (WC 2006 national hero and main villain abroad) was inside and sad as a beaten dog, his pride broken; Immobile (failed WC 2018 qualifiers main striker) & his trophy wife were bubbling from Formentera, both smiling while much serioysly stating they are sorry Italy is not at the World Cup. Do we all see Immbile (also a flop in Germany and Spain) as a dumb, gelled, stereotypical Italian mama boy because of his race / nationality or because he is an overrated footballer, even unaware of his own dumbness, yet living an undeserved, unearned high life just in our plebs face?
 
adexkola said:
Nope. The question was genuine.

The criticism aimed at Pogba is partly race motivated. Not on the lines of, "some people who criticize him hate black people". That's ridiculous.

However there is an insidious pattern where black athletes get criticized for shit that white athletes get a pass for. The motives for that may be unclear, or it may be an unconscious action. However categorically denying any sort of racial bias is sweeping the issue under the floor, and it does no good for posters to shy away from the topic or insist that the criticisms of Pogba are entirely related to his performances on the pitch. They're not. Otherwise I wouldn't be hearing about his off-pitch endeavors.

Simply, check yourself. Even if you think you have the best of intentions on this subject.
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I am curious to know what white athletes get a pass for that black athletes don't?

Off pitch endeavours are next to be analysed when athletes aren't performing to your expectations. People made a fuss about Wayne Rooney and how he didn't look after himself, parties too much, Jack Wilshere was also in the papers a lot for the same shit. Its pretty standard. If someone isn't meeting your expectations, people try to look for reasons why and then analyse every part of the individual to try and find contentious things. You never heard them focusing so much on Vieira's life outside of football. Funny that.

fact is that if you are so flashy as to bring out your own emoji, you are hyped about yourself and your brand. This is not the actions of a quiet, "keeping to myself" man. This is someone screaming for attention and that brings with it scrutiny. I am not yet convinced that his race plays a major part, though I could and would admit if I was wrong. I feel personality plays a big part as well as money involved.
 
Stacks said:
I am curious to know what white athletes get a pass for that black athletes don't?

Off pitch endeavours are next to be analysed when athletes aren't performing to your expectations. People made a fuss about Wayne Rooney and how he didn't look after himself, parties too much, Jack Wilshere was also in the papers a lot for the same shit. Its pretty standard. If someone isn't meeting your expectations, people try to look for reasons why and then analyse every part of the individual to try and find contentious things. You never heard them focusing so much on Vieira's life outside of football. Funny that.

fact is that if you are so flashy as to bring out your own emoji, you are hyped about yourself and your brand. This is not the actions of a quiet, "keeping to myself" man. This is someone screaming for attention and that brings with it scrutiny. I am not yet convinced that his race plays a major part, though I could and would admit if I was wrong. I feel personality plays a big part as well as money involved.
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There's a black African female athlete that people are bloody suggesting is a man cause basically she's too good. I've never heard anything to suggest the same of a white female athlete but maybe I'm being to simplistic. The issue for me is when you consider footballers drinking, smoking, partying, arriving back overweight...these are things that directly impact on a players performance. Pogba apparently trains really well, looks after his family and during the season never seen outside of what he choices to share so I'm not sure how dying your hair (which lots of people do) being on social media (which even politicians do) and having an emoji impacts on his performances. Isn't that what really matters?

What do you mean by flashy, even Phil Jones drives a Bentley. I think those footballers with tattoos spend more time in the chair than Pogs getting his hair done, and there's more health risks too......
 
Litch said:
Absolutely spot on. Yes unpalatable it may be for some or uncomfortable for others, it exists including on here. Some as you say unconsciously but there's others who fully are aware of their motives behind what they post. Its not what people post, it's the racial stereotypes that it's based on. It's only months ago the chat around Rom's penis made the media. When ever have we had a chat of this nature at OT. Wasn't this based on a racial stereotype?
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Talk about picking examples to prove a narrative .
Let's look at other players that have endured negative criticism in recent years.
Fellaini, ADM , Januzaj does that support the case?
Did Jose drop Pogba because of his race or because he was underperforming?
I am not for a minute suggesting that racism in society is not still a major problem but associating it with valid criticism of an underperforming player does only harm as does Toure shockingly playing the race card against Pep.
We are getting very close to "why always me" t-shirt time here.
 
Litch said:
Absolutely spot on. Yes unpalatable it may be for some or uncomfortable for others, it exists including on here. Some as you say unconsciously but there's others who fully are aware of their motives behind what they post. Its not what people post, it's the racial stereotypes that it's based on. It's only months ago the chat around Rom's penis made the media. When ever have we had a chat of this nature at OT. Wasn't this based on a racial stereotype?
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You mean like Vidic murdering people, or Ji Sung Park eating rats?
 
edgar allan said:
Talk about picking examples to prove a narrative .
Let's look at other players that have endured negative criticism in recent years.
Fellaini, ADM , Januzaj does that support the case?
Did Jose drop Pogba because of his race or because he was underperforming?
I am not for a minute suggesting that racism in society is not still a major problem but associating it with valid criticism of an underperforming player does only harm as does Toure shockingly playing the race card against Pep.
We are getting very close to "why always me" t-shirt time here.
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Those players are white if you've not noticed and the thread of what I've been saying is nothing to do with what he's done or not on the pitch. It's amazing the amount of times people make references to his differing hairstyles, dancing, cars, clothes and generally suggesting that theses have some relevance to his football? Love the statement of the race card. It's funny cause this kind of statement is what stopped people believing that there were issues of racism for black players within the clubs, and why we are only now getting an understanding of this. Black player makes a statement about his colour....race card. What next....chip on shoulder?
 
Litch said:
Those players are white if you've not noticed and the thread of what I've been saying is nothing to do with what he's done or not on the pitch. It's amazing the amount of times people make references to his differing hairstyles, dancing, cars, clothes and generally suggesting that theses have some relevance to his football? Love the statement of the race card. It's funny cause this kind of statement is what stopped people believing that there were issues of racism for black players within the clubs, and why we are only now getting an understanding of this. Black player makes a statement about his colour....race card. What next....chip on shoulder?
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Beckham got attacked for literally all of that. Particuarly when he was made public enemy after WC 98.
 
Litch said:
Those players are white if you've not noticed and the thread of what I've been saying is nothing to do with what he's done or not on the pitch. It's amazing the amount of times people make references to his differing hairstyles, dancing, cars, clothes and generally suggesting that theses have some relevance to his football? Love the statement of the race card. It's funny cause this kind of statement is what stopped people believing that there were issues of racism for black players within the clubs, and why we are only now getting an understanding of this. Black player makes a statement about his colour....race card. What next....chip on shoulder?
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Yes i had noticed that they were white and they had criticism also, that was my point.
I couldn't care less about Pogbas hair, I don't have Instagram, I don't follow him on Twitter. I just watch him on the pitch and he has loads to prove in his performances.

You can accuse his critics of being racist but that is lazy and for me completely groundless.
 
Because Pogba is so literally talented he could score 15+ goals a season, but he's wasting so much of his talent by not futfilling his potential. There are very few central midfielder who are more talented than Pogba right now, but Pogba has so many strengths like he's an excellent passer of the ball, can hold the ball, can run, has sick skills, can score/assist and can shoot. He has all the attributes that a world class player needs, but he doesn't really use all of that to dominate games for United. This is why he gets criticized so much. If Pogba was an ordinary player, nobody would create such a fuss about it. But he's at the peak of his career now, and he should be world class for most games for us at this stage because of his talent. But I honestly don't know why he goes missing away in matches a lot(Example:Our game against Seville at OT). I honestly cannot say if it's due to a lack of hard work in training because I would be best speculating at that and I have not seen him there.

Also, I don't literally care about his hairstyle what it is, and I doubt it has any effect on his game and performances. But, fans will begin to speculate when he's not backing up his massive wages with world class performances for us. Ronaldo was fancy too, when he was playing for us. But nobody would care about his hairstyle or looks because he would be backing it up week after week by playing well.
 
edgar allan said:
Yes i had noticed that they were white and they had criticism also, that was my point.
I couldn't care less about Pogbas hair, I don't have Instagram, I don't follow him on Twitter. I just watch him on the pitch and he has loads to prove in his performances.

You can accuse his critics of being racist but that is lazy and for me completely groundless.
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When did I mention racism? And my point has nothing to do with the criticism, just what relevance is his performances got to do with what he does off the pitch. The players mentioned no one makes references to what they are doing off the pitch to their performances but on here it happens all the time, and many to me are racial stereotypes. Yep people will say he brings in on himself like only when plays well can he wear what he wants, post what he wants or drive what he wants.
 
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Just heard the pundits on BBC say Henderson played well. Then I think of the criticism of Pogba's performance and find it really confusing
 
I think Pogba gets a lot of stick because you look at him, and think he could be a real force of a player with all the tools he has, but he's not performing as well as he should be, and this, coupled with his flashy hair (which old fashioned football people, the type who are usually pundits nowadays) amplifies the intensity of the criticism he receives.

Jeppers7 said:
Just heard the pundits on BBC say Henderson played well. Then I think of the criticism of Pogba's performance and find it really confusing
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In contrast, Jordan Henderson looks like a straight laced sort of guy, the kind these same pundits have an affinity to, and they're more complimentary of him.

As for racism, I think the only people who don't believe race doesn't play a part in any of this are the people who are used to being a majority race who has never had to deal with people judging you based on how you are supposed to be perceived. I think there is a small element of this, but if Pogba was doing very well, we'd not be arguing over this.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Just heard the pundits on BBC say Henderson played well. Then I think of the criticism of Pogba's performance and find it really confusing
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To me, it is confusing only if you believe that the barometer for Pogba's performances is Jordan Henderson. And, of course, if you believe that France and England entered this particular competition with the same expectations.

As far as i'm concerned, Pogba has the skillset to become a world-class footballer, one with a very high ceiling and the potential to become a difference maker for his team. Apparently, Mourinho and United feel the same, thus Jose's decision to sign him and Woodward's willingness to pay a fortune for him without thinking it twice.

Now, besides any racial issues (a really sad state of affairs that we certainly can't just brush off) and people posting shite on social media (when will we learn not to care and not feed the attention seekers?), there's criticism that comes from expectations. And if you take a look way above the likes of Henderson, right at the top of the pyramid, you'll see someone called Zinedine Zidane who, at the same age Pogba's now, had already established himself at Juventus (when the Serie A was probably the toughest league in the world) and he had scored two goals in a WC final. So, if the bar for Paul is Henderson, then yeah, there's nothing to complain about. But if it's set a little bit higher... then questions can be asked (in good faith, of course).
 
Litch said:
There's a black African female athlete that people are bloody suggesting is a man cause basically she's too good. I've never heard anything to suggest the same of a white female athlete but maybe I'm being to simplistic. The issue for me is when you consider footballers drinking, smoking, partying, arriving back overweight...these are things that directly impact on a players performance. Pogba apparently trains really well, looks after his family and during the season never seen outside of what he choices to share so I'm not sure how dying your hair (which lots of people do) being on social media (which even politicians do) and having an emoji impacts on his performances. Isn't that what really matters?

What do you mean by flashy, even Phil Jones drives a Bentley. I think those footballers with tattoos spend more time in the chair than Pogs getting his hair done, and there's more health risks too......
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If you are referring to Caster Semenya, she has a rare condition (hyperadrogenism) that means her testosterone levels are significantly higher than other females she is competing against and she has internal "testes". Testes of which are male sexual equipment. I think you are being over simplistic. Footballers get mullered for all of those things. If these footballers were high profile (most expensive domestic transfer) they would get mullered even more. Again, Rooney was always gettin hammered!

None of those things effect your performances and that is all that matters for sure. That said, those things project an inflated value of oneself and the image of a wannabe superstar. It may not be his fault, is no doubt completely innocent but as I said before, it comes with the territory.
 
Not sure any one actually hates Pogba, just most think hes no delivered for united, hes had a couple great little spells but so far for the price tag its not enough. still a few years away from peak age but surely everyone expected him to be have been alot better then he has shown so far.
 
The hype, self-promotion, celebrations, haircuts, transfer fee etc wouldn't be mentioned if he was delivering close to what people were 'sold' he would be. He's obviously got ability but I don't see how him having a sensible haircut or dance routines improve him as a player. I do think maybe he could be a bit more serious - seems quite immature but again, would that improve him? I don't know - he's described as being professional and driven behind the scenes, so likely irrelevant.

I think ultimately, he's worth nowhere near what we paid and the hype around him was massively overblown - he's a very good and valuable player, who will improve but IMO he'll never be an 'elite' and has massive weaknesses in his game. Matic was supposed to 'unleash him', now it's Fred...play him further up the field as an attacking talent and start comparing him to the best in the league - De Bruyne, Hazard, Sane, Salah and he is absolutely miles away.

In answer to the OP I don't think people hate him at all. I think a lot are hoping he instantly turns into this weekly 'world beater'...can't see it myself. Sure the likes of Souness will bash him for it but I reckon we all need to lower expectations and just accept what he actually is.
 
Stacks said:
If you are referring to Caster Semenya, she has a rare condition (hyperadrogenism) that means her testosterone levels are significantly higher than other females she is competing against and she has internal "testes". Testes of which are male sexual equipment. I think you are being over simplistic. Footballers get mullered for all of those things. If these footballers were high profile (most expensive domestic transfer) they would get mullered even more. Again, Rooney was always gettin hammered!

None of those things effect your performances and that is all that matters for sure. That said, those things project an inflated value of oneself and the image of a wannabe superstar. It may not be his fault, is no doubt completely innocent but as I said before, it comes with the territory.
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I know exactly who I'm referring to and whilst you make references to the medical condition, we all know how it was reported and the inference. Why do you think the IAAF were accused of being racist? Maybe others in the world of international athletics are being 'simplistic' too. This is why the kick racism out of football will never work because unless people are making monkey chants or throwing bananas on the pitch, some will always come up with any other argument but than it exists.

The interesting thing is these stereotypes and labels are nothing to do with today, they stem right back to the 70's when Black players were labelled in the same way. People think it's about the fee and his profile, well the same labels and stereotypes exist in the lower leagues. It's amazing how excepting we are once he plays well. We'll allow him those things until he's not. When he isn't, somehow his hair, clothes and profile becomes a problem. Phil Jones can drive his 200k Bentley, live in 10m house and his wardrobe can be full of clothes from Flannels but that's ok?

Maybe I'm being too simplistic but I'm in no doubt that black players are portrayed differently in the media than their white counterparts, and if Pogba was white, yes he'd get hammered but the references would be different. In the same way if Rom was white, no ones singing songs about the size of his penis. That is a racial stereotype and not about his culture or what country he comes from.
 
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Litch said:
I know exactly who I'm referring to and whilst you make references to the medical condition, we all know how it was reported and the inference. Why do you think the IAAF were accused of being racist? Maybe others in the world of international athletics are being 'simplistic' too. This is why the kick racism out of football will never work because unless people are making monkey chants or throwing bananas on the pitch, some will always come up with any other argument but than it exists.

The interesting thing is these stereotypes and labels are nothing to do with today, they stem right back to the 70's when Black players were labelled in the same way. People think it's about the fee and his profile, well the same labels and stereotypes exist in the lower leagues. It's amazing how excepting we are once he plays well. We'll allow him those things until he's not. When he isn't, somehow his hair, clothes and profile becomes a problem. Phil Jones can drive his 200k Bentley, live in 10m house and his wardrobe can be full of clothes from Flannels but that's ok?

Maybe I'm being too simplistic but I'm in no doubt that black players are portrayed differently in the media than their white counterparts, and if Pogba was white, yes he'd get hammered but the references would be different. In the same way if Rom was white, no ones singing songs about the size of his penis. That is a racial stereotype and not about his culture or what country he comes from.
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The ones calling them racist were the ruling party of South African and don't get me started on them. That said, their reasoning was that it disadvantaged Caster and that is enough for it to be racist. There are thousands of other black athletes who are not affected so to say its racist based on the negative impact on one athlete is reaching a bit.

You mentioned "any other argument" but I mean does she have a medical condition or not? Does she have male sex organs or not? will they give her an advantage over female atheletes with female sex organs? If the science is false then fair play. I don't see why it would be regarded as racist when plenty of black atheletes (many from my family country of Jamaica) enjoy success in the field. Why is it racist because Castar has controversy over her head?

Which players in the lower leagues are described with these labels? I have 2 mates Myles Weston and Kyle Reid who both play in the lower leagues in England and are described as hard working. These labels are reserved for a few. Depay and Ashley Young are not labelled the same.
Phil Jones get wrecked for other things, e.g. being a brainless brute. All footballers have nice cars and clothes but Pogba hypes himself more for the gram, comes with higher hype due to pass exploits, cost and wages and draws more star attention to himself. Does Phil Jones have his own reality TV series? When was the last Phil Jones interview solely about himself? there's levels to this and clearly (to me anyway) POgba draws far more attention, seeks it too, than players like Phil Jones. If Michael Owen released an emoji and called his shots Owenboom, he would get sooo much stick, trust me.
 
For me it's just an indicator of how he's destined to be the best like some of the greats. He needs to stop fecking around with those stupid dabs & dances and start showing what he is really about though. He's much better than the player we saw in the last 2 years.
 
Stacks said:
The ones calling them racist were the ruling party of South African and don't get me started on them. That said, their reasoning was that it disadvantaged Caster and that is enough for it to be racist. There are thousands of other black athletes who are not affected so to say its racist based on the negative impact on one athlete is reaching a bit.

You mentioned "any other argument" but I mean does she have a medical condition or not? Does she have male sex organs or not? will they give her an advantage over female atheletes with female sex organs? If the science is false then fair play. I don't see why it would be regarded as racist when plenty of black atheletes (many from my family country of Jamaica) enjoy success in the field. Why is it racist because Castar has controversy over her head?

Which players in the lower leagues are described with these labels? I have 2 mates Myles Weston and Kyle Reid who both play in the lower leagues in England and are described as hard working. These labels are reserved for a few. Depay and Ashley Young are not labelled the same.

Phil Jones get wrecked for other things, e.g. being a brainless brute. All footballers have nice cars and clothes but Pogba hypes himself more for the gram, comes with higher hype due to pass exploits, cost and wages and draws more star attention to himself. Does Phil Jones have his own reality TV series? When was the last Phil Jones interview solely about himself? there's levels to this and clearly (to me anyway) POgba draws far more attention, seeks it too, than players like Phil Jones. If Michael Owen released an emoji and called his shots Owenboom, he would get sooo much stick, trust me.
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My point was the fact from the fiction. How it was reported across the world by the media the inference was very different and very personal. Yes the usual response is we all have a neighbour or a work colleague who's black and it's always about specifics or examples to prove it's not racist. I'm not even sure why the example of 'hard working' is relevant?

You have no more of an idea of what Pogba's motives are for doing what he does? Somehow it's become a crime to do anything or to bring attention to yourself without permission from the media or fans. What he does in his own time, hair, drives, lives or posts is of nobody's busy. He didn't hold a gun to anyone's head to pay 90m or his wages. Utd could have said no. He never said he's the greatest player only that he's come here to win things.

Can I dictate to you because I have some influence in some way what you get paid and how you send you money. If you don't like his hype, don't watch or follow it simple.

His performances kicking a football as disappointing as it might be for some, has nothing to do with the colour of his hair, dancing, hype, clothes or any other racial stereotype that people want to use. There are levels but neither you are anyone else will no what those are. If a young lad wants to be successful, there are worst players to emulate. He might portray many things from where these stereotypes come from but those who choose to do the same are normally labelled as drug dealers or grime artist....it's really not that far a stereotypical stretch....
 
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Pogba can do what he likes for France and off the pitch.

Only time I have dug into him is when he performs below par for UTD, which he has done quite often since he has re-joined.

He makes himself so high profile via his social media and show off haircuts etc, therefore he is naturally in the media's eye more than say, Matic for example.

Messi/Ronaldo have hype because they are world class, Pogba more so for other reasons.

He has put himself there in the spotlight, for me he has to take the rough with the smooth. He is praised often when it is deserved also lets not forget.

Its not all pick on Pogba time, he gets treated no differently for others. Maybe he is under scrutiny because he has enormous talent that he just isn't living upto right now. Best thing for Pogba to do would be to keep it quet off the world and work twice as hard on the training pitch and hitting his potential
 
Litch said:
My point was the fact from the fiction. How it was reported across the world by the media the inference was very different and very personal. Yes the usual response is we all have a neighbour or a work colleague who's black and it's always about specifics or examples to prove it's not racist. I'm not even sure why the example of 'hard working' is relevant?
You have no more of an idea of what Pogba's motives are? Somehow it's become a crime to do anything or to bring attention to yourself without permission. What he does in his own time, hair, drives, lives or posts is of nobody's busy. He didn't hold a gun to anyone's head to pay 90m or his wages. Utd could have said no. He never said he's the greatest player only that he's come here to win things.
Can I dictate to you because I have some influence in some way what you get paid and how you send you money. If you don't like his hype, don't watch or follow it simple.

His performances kicking a football as disappointing as it might be for some, has nothing to do with the colour of his hair, dancing, hype, clothes or any other racial stereotype that people want to use. There are levels but neither you are anyone else will no what those are. If a young lad wants to be successful, there are worst players to emulate. He might portray many things from where these stereotypes come from but those who choose to do the same are normally labelled as drug dealers or grime artist....it's really not that far a stereotypical stretch....
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The long and short of it, as I don't want to go on forever, is that many pundits don't feel his hype matches what he brings to the footballing table. Hype is a complex word and may involve his image, narcissism, branding, attention seeking etc. Much like Becks, many thought he projected himself like some superstar and was criticized for it. I am not saying its right or that its a crime, however you cannot be so naive to not realise it comes with consequences. My manager is from Liverpool and plays down in London and played in 7 a side. There was an opponent in gold boots, headband, tape on his socks, plasters on his earrings (you know the type that think they're on a Televised match). My manager said, "he better be good with all that effort" turns out he was mint.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
To me, it is confusing only if you believe that the barometer for Pogba's performances is Jordan Henderson. And, of course, if you believe that France and England entered this particular competition with the same expectations.

As far as i'm concerned, Pogba has the skillset to become a world-class footballer, one with a very high ceiling and the potential to become a difference maker for his team. Apparently, Mourinho and United feel the same, thus Jose's decision to sign him and Woodward's willingness to pay a fortune for him without thinking it twice.

Now, besides any racial issues (a really sad state of affairs that we certainly can't just brush off) and people posting shite on social media (when will we learn not to care and not feed the attention seekers?), there's criticism that comes from expectations. And if you take a look way above the likes of Henderson, right at the top of the pyramid, you'll see someone called Zinedine Zidane who, at the same age Pogba's now, had already established himself at Juventus (when the Serie A was probably the toughest league in the world) and he had scored two goals in a WC final. So, if the bar for Paul is Henderson, then yeah, there's nothing to complain about. But if it's set a little bit higher... then questions can be asked (in good faith, of course).
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So what you're saying is Pogba played well, but not by his standards....Henderson played well, but not by Pogba's standards ?
 
Jeppers7 said:
So what you're saying is Pogba played well, but not by his standards....Henderson played well, but not by Pogba's standards ?
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I'm saying that pundits will always expect from a player of Pogba's calibre to have a huge impact for his team and they will judge him accordingly. The same does not apply for Henderson. Nobody's expecting him to lead England to glory. In this sense, Pogba's performances will be more scrutinized by the so-called experts. Henderson did ok by his own standards, not anybody else's.
 
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TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I'm saying that pundits will always expect from a player of Pogba's calibre to have a huge impact for his team and they will judge him accordingly. The same does not apply for Henderson. Nobody's expecting him to lead England to glory. In this sense, Pogba's performances will be more scrutinized by the so-called experts. Henderson did ok by his own standards, not anybody else's.
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Then surely the feeling should be that Pogba played well....but he could do more ?
 
Jeppers7 said:
Then surely the feeling should be that Pogba played well....but he could do more ?
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It should but this doesn't create provoking headlines and it doesn't get many clicks.Sadly, this has become part of their job. And it's not only about Pogba. Messi actually quit the NT for a time because some were holding him responsible for Argentina's failures (if you can call playing three consecutive finals a failure).Becks had to deal with that kind of criticism throughout his career.

It's not hate, it's just how many journos treat the superstars in order to draw attention. Throughout the season, most of them were saying that his bad form was Mourinho's fault when he was putting in performances like the other day. But Deschamps is not a notorious figure in the PL...
 
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