Yes.
The "England have had it easy" narrative
- Thread starter Alex99
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yes.
The internet doesn't end with the caf. Go and look at thr comments sections of any article about enfland and their are loads of peoplr moaning about how england would have gone out if thry'd played a good team. Its great.
Dude you have a chip on your shoulder about "England fans". Chill out.
England have clearly had an easier route than we could have had. For example, being on the other side of the draw in this world cup, no doubt.
However, I think people are making two weird comments:
-It is easy. The teams we've faced have all deserved to be here. They've won their qualifiers, they've gotten through their groups and were all decent teams. Tunisia are one of the better African teams and Panama managed to keep out the apparently infinitely better, now suddenly elite Belgium side, for the first half. Not to mention that England have traditionally struggled against such teams anyway, even with the apparent golden generation.
-The teams we've faced have been there on merit. This side of the draw didn't magically appear like this. Germany were supposed to lie in wait in the quarters, Spain/ Portugal in the semis. We're apparently supposed to have been terrified to have faced Italy, Netherlands, Argentina, Spain.
We've faced the team that knocked out Italy and the Netherlands. They've knocked out Germany too, who were so shit this world cup thay they finished bottom of their group. What is funny is that if we had faced Netherlands or Italy in the QF, instead of Sweden and won, people probably wouldn't be saying this. And yet none of them were good enough to get past the apparently championship level side we faced in the QF. You're looking at name and history, rather than actual performances.
We're also about to face the team that knocked out both Spain (who had no cutting edge whatsoever and struggled in their group) and the hosts. Already I'm seeing people torn between saying Croatia are great and will finally beat us or saying they're also crap and we should be beating such a small nation.
Tldr
We've had a relatively easier route to the SF but people are also focusing way too much on names and not the actual performances of the supposed heavyweight teams that we should have apparently feared like Germany, Italy, Argentina, Spain, Netherlands etc, none of whom have shown any reason to be in this stage of this world cup.
Watching England play an utterly toothless Sweden team in the world cup quarter final, just after playing A Colombia team missing their world class player, Tunisia, Panama and Belgium's reserves? its hard to not think its an extremely fortuitous path to the final. Especially while quality teams continue to knock each other out on the in of the other bracket
It's almost as if it's written in the stars that it's coming home.
Colombia also didnt have their best player. Remove Kane from this england team and they would have lost aswell.
Why didn't the heavyweights of Italy, Netherlands or Germany manage to do anything against the toothless Swedish team?
I might have to turn the volume down during EPL matches if England win, otherwise I'l have to bear the 'the best national team in the world' nonsense from the commentators 
Will Baddiel and Skinner release a new song if England win?
Germany beat them
Will Baddiel and Skinner release a new song if England win?
Germany beat them
English fans trying to convince everyone their path hasn't been easy 
Good question, Sweden certainly looked out of their depth and probably should have lost 4-0 to England. Easy to see why Italy and Holland didn't quality
I might have to turn the volume down during EPL matches if England win, otherwise I'l have to bear the 'the best national team in the world' nonsense from the commentators
Will Baddiel and Skinner release a new song if England win?
Germany beat them
They did....on their way to finishing bottom of a group also containing Mexico and South Korea
The irony is that the same people that say our route has been easy are the ones predicting we will lose very game. They obviously feel we are playing superior teams but our path is easy! Personally just enjoying the most competitive world cup ever with the most surprises. I didn't want Wales to get to the final of the Euro's and fully understand others outside England wanting us to fail. It's all good.
They did....on their way to finishing bottom of a group also containing Mexico and South Korea
Not our fault those Mexican tw*ts couldn't do the same
No sorry, i really dont. At least no moreso than any football fan has regarding any other set of fans. I feel im pretty neutral about it all in fact, you can read my posts if in doubt otherwise maybe you need to relax a little?
Are they really though?
Yes.
This is one of those threads where both sides of the "debate" come away looking like assholes.
Yes. There were so many people claiming Colombia were a dangerous side and that England were in for a very tough test. Those same people claimed that Sweden were also a good side and that the match could go either way - likely to be a goal on it. Now they are poor teams because England have beaten them. The same will happen with Croatia. If England win, Croatia won’t be as good as they were before the match. Tunes will change.
You seem intent on telling England fans how they ought to think and behave in light of being in the semis with an easier route than we could have. Comes across as preachy and sanctimonious.
Is this really a topic for conversation? I mean seriously England are in their first semi final since 1990 (?) who cares how they got there? If England were serial winners then I can understand the criticism but as they're not bore off
Who cares, you guys made it to semi finals, enjoy the ride.
Im not doing that, im making that opinion on how transparently diabolical both of those sides were at the tournament itself. Panama were so bad and expected so little a consolation in a 6-1 beating almost caused a national holiday. Tunisia looked like a pub side against belgium then the 2 played eachother in a comically bad game. They were abysmal sides and a guaranteed 6 points for any above average team.
I apologise for the careless hypothetical about the group but the point remains, it was as easy a group as was possible especially when it became clear that losing to belgium was a beneficial result.
On a separate issue id rather not get in to, i personally have never seen a fan argue the merit of the fifa ranking system, a ferociously maligned system, until now. It was clear to see these teams were out of their depth at the world cup. Add in saudi arabia and egypt without salah and that's about it. 16 teams have to go out in the group it doesnt mean they were bad. I also strongly disagree with your assertion about Iran and Morocco. Both performed really well at this tournament and were very unlucky to go out of a very tough group
I think when you have made a thread suggesting, arguing in fact, that England haven't had an easy run, you have to expect some blow back not unanimous agreement. Peope aren't necessarily trying to detract from your team, its just a talking point at the minute and so it should be- i would argue that they may go into a world cup final with all of us unsure of how good or bad they are - purely because most would expect them to beat the three teams they have beaten. Its an interesting scenario and not a vendetta
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It comes across as sad and bitter how the goalposts of criticism are shifting.
After the group stage, England supporters who implied that we might have an easier route to the semis were labelled arrogant. Now the achievement of reaching a semi-final is belittled because it was "easy".
I, for one, am just happy that we didn't embarrass ourselves as usual. Last Euros we lost to Iceland. The WC before that we finished bottom of our group. Just goes to show there is truly no such thing as an 'easy' match for England. And that's usually because we are rubbish! Makes a nice change that we are not a national embarrassment.
We've suddenly become a team who can seemingly win "easy" games instead of making a total mess of it and embarrassing ourselves. I'll take that.
By the way, France had it fairly easy in 98.
Exactly! We've set the bar so low that most of us are still in disbelief/shock that we're in a bleeding World cup semi final.
I'm going to have a very unproductive 3 days at work.
But the same goes the other way. English fans were celebrating getting into the easier side of the group, best chance you've ever had to get to a world cup semi etc etc and that's when we though Spain were getting through!
Now its how dare you say we've had it easy!
So which is it?
Can we not just say that not many games are easy in the WC but some are harder than others and be done with it?
All of this just seems defensive for no reason
Sorry you interpret opinions that differ from yours that way, it’s certainly not my intention. If I was an England fan I’d be having a summer to remember and couldn’t care if we played American Samoa in the final. Certainly wouldn’t be snapping at strangers on the internet for formulating an opinion, in a thread that raised the specific issue.
It’s certainly not any more preachy or sanctimonious than arguing the other side of the coin, but that makes you hypocritical or selective in your indignation
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But very few English supporters on this website were celebrating this fact. The majority suspected we'd lose to Colombia.
Nothing is a given with England. We lost to Iceland 2 years ago.
Of course, but they played and beat the tournament favorites and now play the tournaments second favorites. Therefore their path to the final is far from favorable as England's.
There is no agenda against England that some here are trying to prove. It's just baffling that people won't admin how easy England run to the final will be (if they make it).
The whole ''it's coming home'' viral movement came from England beating Panama because it was funny that both Panama were shit and England fans didn't have any faith in their own team to the point they were mocking them. Now all of a sudden those same fans are defending England like they're some sort of World Footballing powerhouse who have battered great teams to get where they are. Just look at the thread for the England squad being announced on Redcafe.
You can only beat what's in front of you, though. But I fail to see why some people refuse to believe that it's possibly the easiest route ever.
Disclaimer: I'm not anti England NT. If they won it I'd be trilled for the United players in the squad.
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What a bizarre response...
But you sort of proved my point by telling England supporters yet again how they should feel.
For what it's worth, I'm just happy we didn't embarrass ourselves at this tournament (yet). We've set the bar sufficiently low that nothing is ever easy and failure is expected.
I'd argue against that since I was in the eye of that particular storm on here!
To be fair there were posts that started with if we beat Colombia.. But that's like posts on here during the season that tell us to take one game at a time when we get excited over an easier run of fixtures like we're the fecking players
You say it but you don't quite mean it, it just allows you to get excited with an out attached in case the worst happens.
England have been fortunate in how the draw has panned out, and especially as the likes of Germany, Argentina, Spain etc have all been knocked out of the competition, so they cannot be faced.
But as we all know, you can only beat what's put in front of you, and England have successfully done that so far, and reached a World Cup Semi Final for only the 3rd time in history.
That's a huge achievement that shouldn't be undervalued.
England now have a once in a lifetime opportunity, and bloody good luck to them...!!
But as we all know, you can only beat what's put in front of you, and England have successfully done that so far, and reached a World Cup Semi Final for only the 3rd time in history.
That's a huge achievement that shouldn't be undervalued.
England now have a once in a lifetime opportunity, and bloody good luck to them...!!
This is the point really. It was an easy path to the semi finals, but they have a real shot at getting to the final. Easy or not that would be fecking amazing
I honestly don’t know anyone who was “celebrating” being in the bottom half of the draw. Maybe the odd fan here on the internet went crazy, but your average bloke in the street would have snapped your hand off for a semi final spot. Hopeful, yes. Expecting it, no. Everyone was still as nervous as feck. Who exactly was celebrating on this forum for example?
Of course lots of fans preferred to be in the bottom half, I certainly did, and of course it’s easisr than the top half, but it’s not “easy”. I think that’s where a lot of the disagreement comes from.
Fair enough. Supporting United has traditionally been a very different prospect to supporting England. United are a highly successful and well-oiled machine. England are... well, they're not that. So being forward-looking as a United supporter is logical. As an England supporter it's not. Although in the post-SAF era at times I've definitely felt very England-like while supporting United. But it seems now that both are improving and i'm thrilled!
Examples?
England has had a relatively easy draw and there isn't a single England fan that disputes this.
Can you point to a post in this thread, from an England fan, that suggests otherwise?
I’ve got better things to be doing with my time than to go taking screenshots across the internet (like eating my dinner and enjoying the bitterness on this thread).