Has political correctness actually gone mad?

MadMike said:
Right, obvious joke. Context.

The "outrage" (or the part of it that wasn't manufactured anyway) was not really about the remarks themselves, but the double standards. The fact that if things were reversed, there wouldn't be any leniency. Whatever the context. I see you didn't address the link about the kid that did community service for posting snoop dogg rap lyrics on instagram. How about the Netflix director who got fired over using the N-word "at a meeting with the public relations team to discuss sensitive words". Cause I think the context there is far more clear than some of Sarah Jeongs tweets that are not even responses to anyone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44585072

I mean if you feel that the very valid issues faced by minorities or women are served by this, then feel free to believe it but I'm not gonna agree with you.
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These incidents are few and far between tho right? Not the epidemic that some are making them out to be. Or am I missing something here?

You can make the point (like you did initially with that video) without making them out to be part of some SJW takeover, or comparing them to institutional racism etc...

I don't know if that's what you specifically are doing, but others are...

This is why I constantly criticise the 'PC gon mad' crowd in here. They often exaggerate their arguement while downplaying what they are arguing against. Unnecessarily...
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
No, but I'm not a huge fan of continually provoking the people who do. And since political correctness consistently polls as being incredibly unpopular, I don't think it's a good idea to ignore it as a factor when somebody like that gets elected.
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I fail to see how they can poll it when nobody knows what it is.
 
villain said:
What are you trying to say here, racism isn't equal?
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I don't know what you mean by "racism isn't equal". I genuinely didn't understand, could you elaborate?

afrocentricity said:
These incidents are few and far between tho right? Not the epidemic that some are making them out to be. Or am I missing something here?

You can make the point (like you did initially with that video) without making them out to be part of some SJW takeover, or comparing them to institutional racism etc...

I don't know if that's what you specifically are doing, but others are...
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I don't know what volume constitutes an epidemic. They seem to be increasing in frequency though. I don't know if it's part of a "SJW takeover", I just think it's political correctness going overboard. Is it influenced by SJW pressure, probably.

I in no way equate or compare this to institutional racism. Not in the slightest. Hence I posted this in the political correctness thread, not the racism thread. I think the point has been made, repeatedly, that the fight against racism gets eroded by overreaching political correctness and it's being used as a tool by the right to say "look, these guys have fecking lost their mind".

And I'm starting to agree with the notion that indeed political correctness seems to be going overboard. The fact that I agree on this point with the right, doesn't mean that I'll agree with them on anything else though. I think people have become too partisan and if you say anything that disagrees with them, you're immediately being branded either a SJW (already happened in this thread :lol:) or a right-wing Nazi sympathiser.
 
MadMike said:
Right, obvious joke. Context.

The "outrage" (or the part of it that wasn't manufactured anyway) was not really about the remarks themselves, but the double standards. The fact that if things were reversed, there wouldn't be any leniency. Whatever the context. I see you didn't address the link about the kid that did community service for posting snoop dogg rap lyrics on instagram. How about the Netflix director who got fired over using the N-word "at a meeting with the public relations team to discuss sensitive words". Cause I think the context there is far more clear than some of Sarah Jeongs tweets that are not even responses to anyone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44585072

I mean if you feel that the very valid issues faced by minorities or women are served by this, then feel free to believe it but I'm not gonna agree with you.
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Different countries, so the incidents can't really be compared. Unless the person who posted the Snoop Dogg lyrics was attacked by parts of the public over it.

As for the double standards: Well, yeah, white people making racially charged remarks (even if they are jokes) are going to be viewed more harshly and be more scrutinized than the opposite. Especially in a country like America, with its history when it comes to treating minorities like shit.

And I can't say anything with absolute certainty, but I looked at the tweets (on twitter), and to my memory, most of the ones in the picture were either taken out of their context to make them seem bad, or were in response to other tweets. Like #CancelWhitePeople, which they tried to paint as her calling for white genocide. Read in context, it was obviously a dumb joke, but you can't let things like accuracy get in the way for some good ol' manufactured outrage. Gotta keep them women and minorities from getting to uppity.

As for the Netflix dude, he was equating the word retarded to the word n*****, in terms of seriousness. He then repeated the feat while detailing the incident to a couple of black HR reps, and failed to properly apologise for either instance. Which resulted in complaints from other employees, which resulted in his termination.
 
MadMike said:
I don't know what you mean by "racism isn't equal". I genuinely didn't understand, could you elaborate?



I don't know what volume constitutes an epidemic. They seem to be increasing in frequency though. I don't know if it's part of a "SJW takeover", I just think it's political correctness going overboard. Is it influenced by SJW pressure, probably.

I in no way equate or compare this to institutional racism. Not in the slightest. Hence I posted this in the political correctness thread, not the racism thread. I think the point has been made, repeatedly, that the fight against racism gets eroded by overreaching political correctness and it's being used as a tool by the right to say "look, these guys have fecking lost their mind".

And I'm starting to agree with the notion that indeed political correctness seems to be going overboard. The fact that I agree on this point with the right, doesn't mean that I'll agree with them on anything else though. I think people have become too partisan and if you say anything that disagrees with them, you're immediately being banded SJW (already happened in this thread :lol:) or a right-wing Nazi sympathiser.
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So no numbers, just a feeling then. Feelings don't mean anything do they? Your feeling that PC is going overboard is about as valid as my opinion that the reaction to most of this is ridiculous.

Let's be honest here, it's all ridiculous. The Simpson story is fecking minor in the scheme of things and you have people losing their minds over it. I guarantee it will be forgotten about in a few weeks time. Meanwhile that guy is shining a spotlight on the plight of Asians in media, and how the character Apu qualified as a minstrel.

You had a decent jump off point when you posted that video, aren't you even the slightest bit disappointed that people got more offended about Apu being written out of the Simpsons because people actually managed to convince Fox that it would be better if they removed it's caricature of an Indian immigrant?
 
Silva said:
guUnY5c.jpg


it's actually racist when i can't say dumb n****** without being called racist
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This sort of thing needs a anti-pc/racists gone mad thread. :lol:
How the hell does that there gets 70% like ratio? Hell, even if you agree that whites are being descriminated against you'd still have to accept his words about PoC. Is that subreddit a far right safespace?
 
MadMike said:
I don't know what you mean by "racism isn't equal". I genuinely didn't understand, could you elaborate?
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Well that's the point, i'm not sure what it is you're trying to argue.
It sounds like you're saying that there's a difference between racist statements targeted towards different ethnic groups, and it's a double standard, so i'm asking if that's the case.
 
Halftrack said:
Different countries, so the incidents can't really be compared. Unless the person who posted the Snoop Dogg lyrics was attacked by parts of the public over it.

As for the double standards: Well, yeah, white people making racially charged remarks (even if they are jokes) are going to be viewed more harshly and be more scrutinized than the opposite. Especially in a country like America, with its history when it comes to treating minorities like shit.

And I can't say anything with absolute certainty, but I looked at the tweets (on twitter), and to my memory, most of the ones in the picture were either taken out of their context to make them seem bad, or were in response to other tweets. Like #CancelWhitePeople, which they tried to paint as her calling for white genocide. Read in context, it was obviously a dumb joke, but you can't let things like accuracy get in the way for some good ol' manufactured outrage. Gotta keep them women and minorities from getting to uppity.

As for the Netflix dude, he was equating the word retarded to the word n*****, in terms of seriousness. He then repeated the feat while detailing the incident to a couple of black HR reps, and failed to properly apologise for either instance. Which resulted in complaints from other employees, which resulted in his termination.
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Third paragraph seems like a cop out to me. I've read the tweets as well and I just don't agree with you. Not because of the obvious manufactured outrage of "she's advocating genocide". But merely on the grounds that they were racist remarks which she didn't even apologise for. I didn't even want her sacked to be honest, I think if she just said "that was stupid and insensitive of me, I apologise" for me at least it would have sufficed and diffused the situation.

As of the bolded part, if that's indeed what happened then yes he's got no leg to stand on. I won't disagree with that.
 
MadMike said:
Third paragraph seems like a cop out to me. I've read the tweets as well and I just don't agree with you. Not because of the obvious manufactured outrage of "she's advocating genocide". But merely on the grounds that they were racist remarks which she didn't even apologise for. I didn't even want her sacked to be honest, I think if she just said "that was stupid and insensitive of me, I apologise" for me at least it would have sufficed and diffused the situation.

As of the bolded part, if that's indeed what happened then yes he's got no leg to stand on. I won't disagree with that.
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Fair enough, I'm not saying you have to agree. But let's be real here, here apologising would not have been sufficient for most of the people making an issue out of it. They'd have pushed on regardless, because the ultimate goal was to have her fired over it, because there's nothing these people hate more than women and minorities who take a stand against them. In light of that, I'm perfectly fine with the 'give no quarter' approach taken.
 
villain said:
Well that's the point, i'm not sure what it is you're trying to argue.
It sounds like you're saying that there's a difference between racist statements targeted towards different ethnic groups, and it's a double standard, so i'm asking if that's the case.
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I think there's occasionally a difference in how statements of politically incorrect (incl. racist) nature are treated, depending on who the offended group is. I obviously fully understand that minorities would feel far more strongly about racially charged language as it's been used as a weapon against them by the majority for centuries, and still is. There's obviously context, which is also why I agreed that indeed a lot of the responses to Sarah Jeongs tweets were obvious manufactured angered. But that said, I'm not exactly cool with letting them completely slide either. It's not a proportionate response to what is indeed racially charged language.

I know you'll say life is full of of double standards and unequal treatment and this is so minor in the grand scheme of things. That people make too big a deal out of it and trying to distract from more serious issues. And you'd be fully right. However like I said before a) it's still not right and b) the biggest real impact it's having, is being weaponised by the right to lure people in and feed the narrative that, you know, "white man is under attack". The impact of the latter can be quite serious in the fight for equality and indeed in America in particular that message has resonated and hence we've ended up with a twat like Trump in the White House.

On the subject of political correctness, I'm not really fussed about Kleenex mansize tissues being renamed to XL and other such cases mentioned in this thread. Arguing about that is, ridiculous. I do care deeply when police get involved into politically correct or offensive talk though. That's what gets my spine up.
 
Halftrack said:
Fair enough, I'm not saying you have to agree. But let's be real here, here apologising would not have been sufficient for most of the people making an issue out of it. They'd have pushed on regardless, because the ultimate goal was to have her fired over it, because there's nothing these people hate more than women and minorities who take a stand against them. In light of that, I'm perfectly fine with the 'give no quarter' approach taken.
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I feel like you're missing the point again. The people who hate women and minorities and wanted her sacked would indeed never relent. But they are a very vocal minority. A large minority they might be, but still a minority. People seem to forget Obama was president for 8 years till 2016. The majority of voters are normal people. The reason why twats are acting outraged is because they are fighting battle for the minds and hearts of the middle-ground white voter, trying to shift them to the right. America is 62% white and if you include the latinos who identify as white, it's 77%. You can't win an election by pissing them off. And for a lot of those people in the middle, diffusing arguments like this helps greatly to diffuse the whole position of the right which is "white man is under attack".

But leaving aside the politics, just looking at the tweets in isolation it would indeed have been the morally right response (for me) to apologise as they were highly insensitive to say the least. Not to the trolls that baited her, feck them, but to the rest of the people that read them.
 
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MadMike said:
I think there's occasionally a difference in how statements of politically incorrect (incl. racist) nature are treated, depending on who the offended group is. I obviously fully understand that minorities would feel far more strongly about racially charged language as it's been used as a weapon against them by the majority for centuries, and still is. There's obviously context, which is also why I agreed that indeed a lot of the responses to Sarah Jeongs tweets were obvious manufactured angered. But that said, I'm not exactly cool with letting them completely slide either. It's not a proportionate response to what is indeed racially charged language.

I know you'll say life is full of of double standards and unequal treatment and this is so minor in the grand scheme of things. That people make too big a deal out of it and trying to distract from more serious issues. And you'd be fully right. However like I said before a) it's still not right and b) the biggest real impact it's having, is being weaponised by the right to lure people in and feed the narrative that, you know, "white man is under attack". The impact of the latter can be quite serious in the fight for equality and indeed in America in particular that message has resonated and hence we've ended up with a twat like Trump in the White House.

On the subject of political correctness, I'm not really fussed about Kleenex mansize tissues being renamed to XL and other such cases mentioned in this thread. Arguing about that is, ridiculous. I do care deeply when police get involved into politically correct or offensive talk though. That's what gets my spine up.
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You're a very eloquent poster, and I enjoy reading your posts. On this particularly topic, you're incredibly far off base.

If you can't see a problem with equating a phrase like 'the fight for equality in America', with white people being called Boring, and Mayo then I really don't know where we can begin to have a rational conversation on equality at all.

Sure, the right use it as a weapon - but anyone who gets offended by it is playing right into their hands willingly.
 
There is no doubt that some people on social media will often feign offence to gain attention, in the name of social justice. On the other hand though, some people will specifically look to offend, in the name of free speech, to gain attention. At the end of the day, people want attention. That is what I believe is the root of all this.

Has it gone too far? Kinda. Is it helping the far right gain followers who wouldn't usually align with them? I believe so yes.
 
villain said:
If you can't see a problem with equating a phrase like 'the fight for equality in America', with white people being called Boring, and Mayo then I really don't know where we can begin to have a rational conversation on equality at all.
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But I didn't equate it :confused: I specifically said that the post about Whiteys and Mayo on reddit was a clear troll/bait post trying to draw a reaction, and the issue of inequality is far more important than the one being discussed here. I explained however how this seemingly small issue has a large impact. And also I evaluated it individually to say that it doesn't quite sit right with me. Not as much the fact that 1/3 black males in the US will do time in prison during their life, doesn't sit right with me. It should go without saying.

I do apologise for veering the discussion away form political correctness and into racism. It does have an overlap though.
 
MadMike said:
I feel like you're missing the point again. The people who hate women and minorities and wanted her sacked would indeed never relent. But they are a very vocal minority. A large minority they might be, but still a minority. People seem to forget Obama was president for 8 years till 2016. The majority of voters normal people. The reason why twats are acting outraged is because they are fighting battle for the minds and hearts of the middle-ground white voter, trying to shift them to the right. America is 62% white and if you include the latinos who identify as white, it's 77%. You can't win an election by pissing them off. And for a lot of those people in the middle, diffusing arguments like this helps greatly to diffused the whole position of the right which is "white man is under attack".

But leaving aside the politics, just looking at the tweets in isolation it would indeed have been the morally right response (for me) to apologise as they were highly insensitive to say the least. Not to the trolls that baited her, feck them, but to the rest of the people that read them.
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The people who hate women and minorities are the driving force behind incidents like these. 4chan, various sub-reddits, the GamerGate crew. Discussions can be had about these issues... Well, no, they can't, because those jackasses poison the debate from the get-go by trying to equate a minority ranting against white people to calling black people the n-word. They might be a vocal minority, but as long as they're the ones driving the issue, I have no problem with telling them to pound sand.

Yes, it would have been nice if she apologised, but I can see why she opted not to. The very people orchestrating the entire outrage against here were the same people who racially abused her in the first place, and apologising would be like conceding to them. If people who took legitimate issue with it ended up not getting the apology they felt they deserved, they can blame it on the instigators.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Is it helping the far right gain followers who wouldn't usually align with them? I believe so yes.
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In that case I hope they show themselves more and more frequently. There shouldn't be any reason why people hide their true feelings/views.
I prefer the openly racist people over the ones who will smile in your face and talk about you behind your back, the latter group are much, much bigger too.

These people have always felt this way, but it's being heightened because there's more demand for empathy with the very people they've always disliked for one reason or another (minorities, homosexuals, women etc)

MadMike said:
But I didn't equate it :confused: I specifically said that the post about Whiteys and Mayo on reddit was a clear troll/bait post trying to illicit a reaction, and the issue of inequality is far more important than the one being discussed here. I explained however how this seemingly small issue has a large impact. And also I evaluated it individually to say that it doesn't quite sit right with me. Not as much the fact that 1/3 black males in the US will do time in prison during their life, doesn't sit right with me. It should go without saying.

I do apologise for veering the discussion away form political correctness and into racism. It does have an overlap though.
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This is what I mean. Some white people may get offended by terms such as mayonnaise - what effect does it ultimately have?

You say it doesn't quite sit right with you, understandable - but what are you seeking as a resolution here?

I wish that was the extent of racism I could receive.
 
villain said:
This is what I mean. Some white people may get offended by terms such as mayonnaise - what effect does it ultimately have?

You say it doesn't quite sit right with you, understandable - but what are you seeking as a resolution here?

I wish that was the extent of racism I could receive.
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Mayonnaise shouldn't really offend anyone, that's ridiculous c'mon :lol:. That just started the talk, I was mostly talking about things like Jeong going "I get joy out of being cruel to old white people" and the lack of pressure from her peer group to apologise, when I said it doesn't sit right with me.

As for resolution to the political correctness issue, I just think it needs a bit more common sense. There's things that are considered hate speech and outlawed and there's things that are offensive or insensitive. On the latter the police should not intervene, it not their job. When people are being offensive or insensitive, then depending on the infraction and the environment there should be repercussions. Someone being a twat and apologising, I personally would forgive so long as there's not repeat behaviour and subject to the conditions mentioned before. I just feel we're losing the measure a little.

I mean yeah I wish the extent of racism you received in your life was as little as called mayo, believe me. As I wish this topic (political correctness), while worthy of discussion, was not used to detract from more serious issues.
 
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Sweet Square said:
They are like the luddites in the industrial revolution trying to destroy the weaving machinery, it's was over as soon as the machines were in the workshop. As soon as women, minorities and a global audience all started to be a part of consumer culture then theses outrage white men had lost all cultural power. As bad as capitalism is, it always follows the money. So with the combination of a global audience, minorities, white people who also agree or simply don't care enough to actively do anything against it, the ''SJW'' are going to win and they are going shape the way television, movies, video games and any other way we consume culture. And good because we had decades and decades of the other stuff(And its all there recorded, it's not like people are burning it).


So yeah sit back and enjoy watching them rage in angry and pointless destroy their machines.
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Apologies for the tangent but I always liked this article from 1984 by Thomas Pynchon on luddites:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/05/18/reviews/pynchon-luddite.html
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Shock horror, as someone who is clearly a huge SJW prefers the arguments being put forward by somebody who wants to remove offensive cartoons.

His arguments are so reasonable that the vast majority of people find his point to be ludicrous and he has been roundly slated. Go figure.
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I just want to reply to this with a quote:

"At it's core, being a 'SJW' would mean fighting for the equality of everybody in society, so I don't understand how that could be a negative. People should be actively trying to promote the equality of the sexes, race equality etc, these are important issues which people are passionate about. It's far more toxic when you have ideals entirely built on hatred and discrimination, the alt right are a far more toxic force in society, go listen to Rayush Valizadeh talk even briefly on men's issues. That is toxic, that is when you have a movement which is actively trying to normalize being a generally disgusting, anti-social arsehole, and millions of men share similar ideals. Young men read this stuff and are convinced, this to me is far scarier than a few people wrongfully being accused of racism."

SquishyMcSquish said:
Like others have said, it's a cartoon based on stereotypes. Braindead alcoholics, evil businessmen, fat lazy cops .. the list goes on and on. The message it sends out is that you're ok showing negative stereotypes about certain demographics, but others are protected.
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Do you know what group doesn't have any negative stereotypes on the Simpsons?
Stereotypical American WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants). Sure they take swipes at Scots or Italians or rednecks or rich people but they don't have any that make fun of the negative stereotype of the "Ugly American WASP" - that's the most "protected" stereotype on the Simpsons. They have to add something to that stereotype to make it okay - like making it a Scotsman or rich guy or whatever.
 
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Banning "rednev" or whatever was his name is political correctness. And I'm a brown Egyptian Muslim.
 
The answer to the OP has always been no. But you’d like to think that since real actual Nazis became a thing again, it’d be a bit less of a contention. But alas, apparently no... ‘cos if you start telling racist dickheads they’re being racist dickheads, they might react badly by.... being racist dickheads and/or voting for racist dickheads. And that’ll show you!
 
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MadMike said:
Mayonnaise shouldn't really offend anyone, that's ridiculous c'mon :lol:. That just started the talk, I was mostly talking about things like Jeong going "I get joy out of being cruel to old white people" and the lack of pressure from her peer group to apologise, when I said it doesn't sit right with me.

As for resolution to the political correctness issue, I just think it needs a bit more common sense. There's things that are considered hate speech and outlawed and there's things that are offensive or insensitive. On the latter the police should not intervene, it not their job. When people are being offensive or insensitive, then depending on the infraction and the environment there should be repercussions. Someone being a twat and apologising, I personally would forgive so long as there's not repeat behaviour and subject to the conditions mentioned before. I just feel we're losing the measure a little.

I mean yeah I wish the extent of racism you received in your life was as little as called mayo, believe me. As I wish this topic of discussion (political correctness), while worthy of discussion, was not used to detract from more serious issues.
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On the first paragraph - I understand and to a certain extent I agree, it was completely unnecessary for her to say the things she said.

If I was to play devils advocate, and given we're in an apt thread for it - surely there's an argument to be had that her comments were jokes, and therefore, the triggered right-wingers are being snowflakes for being offended by it?

This is the similar argument thats often made in opposition to political correctness - people are easily offended these days, surely the same can be said of those comments?

On the second paragraph, I agree - common sense needs to be applied.
For a lot of people, they're stubborn & ignorant - things have been done a certain way for all their life, and in their perception, nobody took an issue with it before, so why should things change now? That's the stubbornness, the ignorance kicks in because of their perception, they didn't have exposure/access to how other people felt about it, that then somehow means that they didn't get upset about things in 'the good ol' days', and nowadays people are more sensitive.

Add that to the fact that websites/blogs target people for easy clicks for monetary gain - you get ridiculous stories intended to rile up easy bait - tall tales of twitter users outraged, and millennials in meltdown. It's so predictable that I almost feel sorry for the people who fall for it, almost.

I personally don't really see the point of apologies, actions will always speak louder and forgiveness can be pretty fluid. Apologies are usually only for the person who was on the receiving end of whatever act needed to be apologised for - they don't necessarily signal a change in behaviour. In this instance, I fail to see what an apology would do.
 
niMic said:
Imagine using "SJW" unironically.
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Even using it ironically is tedious at this point. The word should be off the table for anyone who wants to sound like an actual adult rather than a callow teenager.
 
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It'll be interesting to see how future generations react to increasing automation. No doubt they'll be conveniently cast as 'enemies of progress' too.
 
Dang, saw the thread had sprouted 3 more pages and thought something actually interesting might have happened.

Disappointed.
 


But remember guys, SJWs doing Jazz Hands and non-platforming Milo are the real problems. Also there are too many women and gay Asians in Doctor Who. It’s just good honest common sense, yeah? Stop being such pussies.
 
The Right are 'taking their countries back'.
 
Mockney said:


But remember guys, SJWs doing Jazz Hands and non-platforming Milo are the real problems. Also there are too many women and gay Asians in Doctor Who. It’s just good honest common sense, yeah? Stop being such pussies.
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This is actually scary to read. Sounds like a proper dystopian future type of movie scene. Unreal that it’s happening in real life.
 
Yet another inch closer to utopia. We're slowly but surely getting there, lads.

What's next on the agenda? Can we try to ban Manuel from Fawlty Towers? A bit offended about how they portrayed us in that if I'm honest.
 
Vato said:
Yet another inch closer to utopia. We're slowly but surely getting there, lads.

What's next on the agenda? Can we try to ban Manuel from Fawlty Towers? A bit offended about how they portrayed us in that if I'm honest.
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Football clubs historically linked to fascists.
 
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