YesDo you know who Mary-Lou is and what party she represents?
Oh I didn't know British MP Tories were Irish. That's new.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Stop embarrassing yourself John, please.
I'm not mate. You said that what I was saying was a load of rubbish. I said that it had been talked about and it has been.
Thank you for your insight on this.
Looking at things from across the pond I've always wondered why politicians in NI can't sit down together at Stormont ,like they did before (isn't that part of the GFA as well as the border issue?) and present some sort of whole of the Isle of Ireland overview on the Brexit issue. At the moment those living in the North and to a perhaps greater extent in the South, seem to be accepting the argument is between Britain and the EU, and not so much between Nationalist and Unionist? After all if NI as whole voted to remain, then surely there was some voting across the Nationalist/Unionist divide, or was it purely on sectarian lines? Who knows, the promise (by all sides) of a reunification referendum, with a set time frame in the not too distant future could negate the effects of a backstop being necessary, or is that being too naïve?
Necessity is the mother of invention.
There might not be a solution now but with the incredible advances in technology and enough brainpower a workable solution ought not to be years away.
We may have to go with an interim solution first of all if it overcomes a no deal.
The only circumstances under which it might be considered would be as a concession to Unionists in the event of a United Ireland. Anybody who sees it as a serious prospect otherwise is someone just trying to be controversial or someone with absolutely no clue about the current mood in Ireland.
If Tories had any confidence in the ability of these bright minds to come up with a technological solution they wouldnt be shitting themselves so much about the backstop.
Which is the whole shame of it because before this Brexit debacle relations between the UK an the ROI were moving in a good direction.
2014
It’s certainly been an eye-opener over here as to how highly regarded we are by the political establishment in London.
The fecking Commonwealth
If ever there was a poster child for the utter delusion of modern British imperialism, the Commonwealth is surely it. A gentlemans club which allows the English to cling onto a lonely belief that they're more important than they actually are with the bonus of a nice sports day every few years.
Again, I'm sorry if I'm insulting those English among you who are decent, self-aware and sensible but in fairness, it's high time you all started calling these gobshites out for what they are on a regular basis.
It's 2019 - Johnny Foreigner isn't a savage anymore and the rest of the world hasn't looked to England for guidance in a long, long time. A half century spent blaming every feck up on the naughty EU and convincing yourselve of how important England and its empire is has done ye no favours whatsoever.
When are you going to accept your role as a member of the world and not a leader of it, stop trying to dictate to others and start getting along with them?
Do that and we'll find some crayons and sign up to your bloody commonwealth if it stops a tantrum. It literally doesn't matter a shit.
If ever there was a poster child for the utter delusion of modern British imperialism, the Commonwealth is surely it. A gentlemans club which allows the English to cling onto a lonely belief that they're more important than they actually are with the bonus of a nice sports day every few years.
Again, I'm sorry if I'm insulting those English among you who are decent, self-aware and sensible but in fairness, it's high time you all started calling these gobshites out for what they are on a regular basis.
It's 2019 - Johnny Foreigner isn't a savage anymore and the rest of the world hasn't looked to England for guidance in a long, long time. A half century spent blaming every feck up on the naughty EU and convincing yourselve of how important England and its empire is has done ye no favours whatsoever.
When are you going to accept your role as a member of the world and not a leader of it, stop trying to dictate to others and start getting along with them?
Do that and we'll find some crayons and sign up to your bloody commonwealth if it stops a tantrum. It literally doesn't matter a shit.
I don't think it is the sentiment of the people as a whole though. And when this is all done there is a high probability that a good many of this lot will be voted out.
You know I’d be for it if it gets me rights to live in Canada, Australia or New Zealand
The impression over here is that the average Joe on your side is basically ignorant about and indifferent to the Irish question.
who
I said it was a load of rubbish because only a very, very, very, very, very small percentage of our population were likely saying it. You proved my point by posting articles featuring such esteemed people as an English Tory MP and Sinn Fein's resident nutjob Mary-Lou.
I mean, sure, if by "there's talk of it", you genuinely only meant from 2 or 3 people who are utter nutjobs, then yes, you're not wrong, but if that is what you meant then why even bring it up? Bizarre.
or worse, thinks you're insignificant and will roll over when we send the navy round
who said she didn't actually want it
I know Geeb. It was a time when there were real efforts being made to try and reconcile things. To me it was gaining ground and gave hope to all manner of cooperation. But Brexit has soured this somewhat.
My hope is that some accord can be found and things can begin to build again.
But I am taken by the comments from some of the Irish posters on here and wonder whether my perception of a gradual reconciliation was misread.
Sincerest apologies, I just assumed a view like that had to be a British one.
I've no doubt it might be a difficult sell on the practicalities and costs in particular, but do you think that those in the south would turn down a once in a life time opportunity to unite the country regardless of the complexities? I mean I would genuinely be shocked if the south voted against reunification. Half my extended family are from the south as I'm sure most are most nationalist's families and I can't fathom large numbers of people voting to turn their backs on their own relatives north of the border but maybe I'm being naive.
Its now just the Commonwealth. Not the British Commonwealth. It isn't what it used to be and Ireland was a member of it until 1949.The fecking Commonwealth
If ever there was a poster child for the utter delusion of modern British imperialism, the Commonwealth is surely it. A gentlemans club which allows the English to cling onto a lonely belief that they're more important than they actually are with the bonus of a nice sports day every few years.
Again, I'm sorry if I'm insulting those English among you who are decent, self-aware and sensible but in fairness, it's high time you all started calling these gobshites out for what they are on a regular basis.
It's 2019 - Johnny Foreigner isn't a savage anymore and the rest of the world hasn't looked to England for guidance in a long, long time. A half century spent blaming every feck up on the naughty EU and convincing yourselve of how important England and its empire is has done ye no favours whatsoever.
When are you going to accept your role as a member of the world and not a leader of it, stop trying to dictate to others and start getting along with them?
Do that and we'll find some crayons and sign up to your bloody commonwealth if it stops a tantrum. It literally doesn't matter a shit.
Yeah it's our fault.
Every day we get dragged into these pitiful conversations about Nato, Secret Armies, the bloody Commonwealth, whatever the nasty EU have said or refused to say today or how the Irish are being difficult or unreasonable.
It's because every single one of the people bringing up these strawmen arguments is wholly incapable of presenting anything like a coherent, realistic and effective argument for the actual issues that matter. They come in all wallop and bluster, fling some shit at the walls, get embarrassed by anyone with even the merest notion of any of the issues at hand and then flounce about presenting bullshit arguments until everyone else gets so bored of calling them an idiot, they end up getting dragged into discourse with them out of some misguided sense of balance.
We need to stay strong. These people are idiots and they need to be told as much as loudly and as often as possible until the message sinks in.
I know exactly what it is.
You rarely see the lads out in Singapore and Rwanda pestering other countries to join up. If England dissolved as a nation tomorrow the Commonwealth would be forgotten about within 3 years. It exists as a means to pat ye on the head and tell ye you're still special.
Why? The voters won't care about expense to the point it will influence the vote.
Economists wouldn't be voting here. We've seen that with Brexit.
Am I wrong in thinking that ROI wouldn't be fan of the Queen as head of Commonwealth part?
Lots of our average Joe's died in the troubles so I would argue against that assertion.
I actually think it would be an almost impossible sell due to the costs and implications. It would decimate the Irish economy for a while, too, we can't afford to take the North. The only possible way I could see it working would be an extremely slow transition where the NI stay funded by Westminster until the economy has reached a point where it's able to sustain itself without doing so, but would the UK ever go for that, either? Unlikely.
I think once people look beyond the romanticism of the whole thing it'll become apparent that uniting the island will have far more negatives than positives, in the short-term at least, and that's why I don't think it would happen. I could never even see it reaching a referendum down here, really.
That's long before you take into account that almost half of NI consider themselves British.
Besides, most of my northern friends say it'd probably never pass there either. I'm surprised you think it would.
I'd like to think our recent referendum's have shown our populace to have a bit more common since than the Brits did for Brexit.
If it was a relevant concept and could be of value to us as a nation, we wouldn't let anything so fickle stand in the way. As Massive Spanner has said, we've moved on as a nation and we're not going to let outdated notions and misdeeds stand in the way of progress.
Ireland would pass a reunification referendum if it works economically and societally for Ireland. If it doesn't, it won't. Joining up to the commonwealth would be passed or rejected in the same manner - if it ever became important enough to consider.
I don't know if it would pass up here, it would presumably all depend on timing and circumstance. My perception is that Brexit, particularly a no deal Brexit, would make it somewhat more likely and if you compound that with the shifting demographics you could find a sort of perfect storm of conditions that softens unionism just enough to get unification over the line.
Out of all the trash and vile rubbish I have read on this particular thread, this is just about the most antagonistic I have had the misfortune to read.
Holier than thou. You are little more than an odious pompous fool.
Oh. And by the way. I recently raised the issue of a European Army and at no time did the word secret army get mentioned.
Yet another inaccuracy from you.
Good bye.
A united Ireland as a romantic idea is a dream we have had for generations.
If NI voted for a united Ireland I can almost guarantee that wave of nationalistic pride would carry over to the South. Remember that vote would come first and the momentum would start from there.
It would take a lot of math to quell that.
If we did have more sense Enda Kenny wouldn't have lasted as long!
We're really not that wise. The world wide pressure alone would see the vote pass.
Surely you'd want a super majority for something like that though?
I didn’t assert it, I stated that it’s the impression over here. I actually asked about it on the Cafe a while back, you can read the responses here - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/gen...cord-third-time.428257/page-398#post-21033923
For what it’s worth (and I can’t speak for all the Irish on here), I’m someone who really likes the UK. I love being over there, have been lucky enough to live in England, have many friends there and admire much about the country and culture. I really value maintaining good, close neighborly relations and believe we’re tied to each other by geography and culture to a large extent. I’m not 100% comfortable with our complete identification with the EU on this and on other matters, and I’ve always thought some form of broader, egalitarian Anglo-confederation makes a lot of sense. But the really disappointing aspect of this debacle for me has been witnessing just how little these feelings I have for the UK seem to have been reciprocated throughout the initial referendum campaign and since. The maintenance of good relations with your closest neighbor; the potential threat posed by Brexit and the way you’ve gone about it to those good relations don’t seem to have been a major factor in the discourse surrounding Brexit at all.
You might be right, personally I think it's not worth it, but I'm not a romanticist, I'm more practical, and I'd rather not see our economy shot to tatters again. Ultimately most Northern Irish people (including the ones who consider themselves Irish) are more than happy being in the UK and getting their free healthcare and all the other benefits that come from it, and if it wasn't for Brexit and a potential hard border they'd never even consider a united Ireland, so why the feck should we pander to it now ourselves?
Ideally yes but the principle of consent in the Good Friday Agreement is that it needs 50%+1
I understand but we are Ireland. A large percentage of our voting base would vote for a united Ireland no matter what and its that imbalance that would pass it IMO. Peoples minds who wouldn't change no matter what.
It would take a stupidly large percentage of the undecided to sway it the other way.
But who really knows I suppose.
I really doubt we’d vote against a United Ireland down here, the opportunity to correct a perceived historical injustice like that won’t be passed up.
Post Brexit UK our ‘Special Place in Hell’
To be fair the Irish question has been the biggest and most discussed element of the single biggest political issue in generations. So Im not sure that is really fair. A lot of people care deeply about the impact this will have on Ireland.