Charlie Foley
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
- Messages
- 18,665
The doctor doesnt decide, the woman does.
She has no right either to kill a soul if everything medically wise is stable for her and her baby.
Only in case of medical condition that can kill her or her fetus is when abortion should be done.
Otherwise it's crime and both her and surgeon will be part of it.
Yes she does
A fetus that cant survive outside the womb isnt a human
No its not
He's already a living organism intrauterine. Cells dividing and growing and such.
Great, still not a human
Why it should be this way?Medico legally abortion should only be done by the surgeon when the woman's life itself is in danger, having a serious medical condition or something that may lead to her death if the pregnancy goes on, thus you have to save her life and perform a therapeutic abortion. You can't sacrifice the mother for the sake of the fetus!
Another case is if the fetus was diagnosed by an incompatible congenital anomaly like anencephaly.
Otherwise, whatever other non medical conditions abortion shouldn't be performed by a surgeon. He's not supposed to choose if the fetus should live or not when everything else medically is stable for both the mother and the fetus.
Yes it is.
No it isn’t.
Riveting. I love big talk.
Eboue’s right by the way. And if you lunatics were to have your way and have abortion outlawed, you’d start seeing terrible consequences. More kids who don’t get what they need, kids who get fecked up by failed abortions, mothers who die from failed abortions, an increased burden on the legal system and wrongful imprisonments.
I get that religious views might lead to the conclusion, but that just adds to the list of ways that religiosity heaps misery onto an already difficult life for many. Look at the outcomes.
I don't ge this. If life is so difficult for the parents why would she get pregnant to start with? I mean contraception is a thing if they want sex that much isn't it?
As for mothers who die from failed abortion, I literally said that if she had a serious medical condition that can lead to her death if the pregnancy goes on she has he right to save her life and do a therapeutic abortion.
But for the difficult life part, no one forced her to get pregnant to start with. Contraception is a thing and it's effective if she doesn't want a baby.
Contraceptives don't always work.
As you said most. What about if there's a bad batch of pills or a bad batch of Condoms?Most known reason for contraceptive pills failure is due to incorrect use not because they themselves aren't effective. They have a very very high success rate as long as they are using it correctly.
As you said most. What about if there's a bad batch of pills or a bad batch of Condoms?
Do you believe in the plan B morning after pill option?
You could be describing a virus here.He's already a living organism intrauterine. Cells dividing and growing and such.
You could be describing a virus here.
An embryo is only genetically human.Except he's a human though, not a virus.
I don't ge this. If life is so difficult for the parents why would she get pregnant to start with? I mean contraception is a thing if they want sex that much isn't it?
An embryo is only genetically human.
If he doesn't have a congenital anomalies that will make him incompatible with life, if the pregnancy isn't associated with complication and if the mother is fully fit and doesn't have any medical problems, who should I kill him? Because she doesn't want him only?
This is spectacularly, enragingly naive. Or wilfully ignorant to a degree that is extremely arrogant.
Edit: Just read the part where you said you're studying medicine. You need to combine it with studying a bit of the world and your future patients. "Why didn't you just not get pregnant?" is not really going to cut it for bedside manner.
Your scenarios omit a massive, very dark area of human existence where women are impregnated by force.
I won't have to do that because abortion without a medical reason is outlawed here and that patient will have to do it away from governmental hospitals. I won't see such patients so don't worry about me much.
OK buddy. Everyone was talking nicely up till you showed up. If you think my views are as crap you can simply put me on the ignore.
So you're all right Jack, and feck any poor woman in a crisis pregnancy, right.
Ok.
Are you going to ignore the point rather than engage it then? That's extremely telling.
You interchangibly use the word baby and fetus like it's the same thing. This isn't going anywhere. I can say that you do seem very ignorant on women's issues and if you have such a hard time comprehending a scenario where a women gets pregnant without wanting a baby then maybe you should read up on women's issues some more if it's something you feel so strongly about.He's a human though at the end of the day. He's not going to develop to anything else as far as I'm concerned.
If he doesn't have a congenital anomalies that will make him incompatible with life, if the pregnancy isn't associated with complication and if the mother is fully fit and doesn't have any medical problems, who should I kill him? Because she doesn't want him only? What did the fetus do to get killed earlier if him and the mother were medically completely well?
And as I said if the life for the parents was that difficult from the start, contraception and not getting pregnant to start with should be the rule not abortion imo.
I'm not for outlawing abortion in general. It's needed in several conditions as I said when the surgeon himself ask to terminate pregnancy for the sake of the mother or if the fetus isn't going to live long after being born due to a series congenital anomaly appearing in US. Termination of pregnancy and therapeutic abortion is a method of treatment of many obstetric and Gynecological diseases.
However I'm against abortion because the mother doesn't want him for the sake of it, because the fetus did nothing to deserve to be killed for absolutely no reason imo. There are many ways to not have a baby if the parents care that much about that.
You interchangibly use the word baby and fetus like it's the same thing. This isn't going anywhere. I can say that you do seem very ignorant on women's issues and if you have such a hard time comprehending a scenario where a women gets pregnant without wanting a baby then maybe you should read up on women's issues some more if it's something you feel so strongly about.
I have been talking to others without needing to throw stupid insults. I'm still going to replay but learn how to talk better.
I suggest you spend some time reading actual women's stories.
3 types of birth control failed
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=317755935533750&id=279428862699791
Beaten when trying to use contraception and raped
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=316182159024461&id=279428862699791
Believing it's wrong like you, until raped and impregnated
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=286260935349917&id=279428862699791
In a violent relationship and had unplanned sex with someone else who showed her kindness once. Got pregnant.
279784419330902&id=279428862699791
There are thousands of women's stories on that page.
Why are you acting like I want abortion to be fully outlawed when I am talking about asking for abortion just for the sake of it and killing a fetus for absolutely no reason?
I don't remember bringing raping in any of my comments so far.
Termination of pregnancy and abortion is a respectable method of treatment and used in many situations normally. Some times it's even the only method of treatment.
What you don't get it's that it just has its indications for the surgeon to agree on performing it. Asking for abortion without an indication or a reason just because she doesn't want the baby is a crime.
So you're not going to read any of those stories that might explain reasons outside of the ones you currently consider?
Also, your last statement - that is NOT a crime in my country.
I won't have to do that because abortion without a medical reason is outlawed here and that patient will have to do it away from governmental hospitals. I won't see such patients so don't worry about me much.
I will make sure to read them, but that wasn't the points I was making though. I was talking about asking for abortion for no reason just because she doesn't want the baby or she had sex with someone fully aware and got pregnant by mistake even though it's her own problem. You are bringing stories with reasons like raping and being beaten and such we may discuss if abortion was a correct decision in it or not, so yeah that's in a different direction.
I know it's not outlawed and voluntary in USA but that differs from country to another I guess. There's a term called criminal abortion you can search it. That's what I'm talking about.
I will make sure to read them, but that wasn't the points I was making though. I was talking about asking for abortion for no reason just because she doesn't want the baby or she had sex with someone fully aware and got pregnant by mistake even though it's her own problem. You are bringing stories with reasons like raping and being beaten and such we may discuss if abortion was a correct decision in it or not, so yeah that's in a different direction.
I know it's not outlawed and voluntary in USA but that differs from country to another I guess. There's a term called criminal abortion you can search it. That's what I'm talking about.
I think this sentence is particularly telling and a huge part of the issue we have with pregnancy and the abortion debate.
Leaving aside the problematic (in my opinion) approach of blaming women for having sex, a pregnancy is not her own problem. She didn't have sex by herself, there was a man involved somewhere, with a penis and semen. It should be both her and the man's problem. Yet it so rarely is.
50% of that 'problem' is genetically his yet the reality is society rarely sees it that way. They don't blame the man for getting pregnant (even though in many settings, due to a power imbalance, it is the man who decides whether contraception is used or not). So in countries where abortion is banned, often countries in which men hold significantly more power than women, he gets her pregnant, runs away, has nothing to do with the situation and the woman is blamed, the woman is forced to raise a child she does not want and is forced to change her entire life around 1 encounter, while he runs off, washing his hands of the situation.