Anybody watching the Brexit Debate on C4?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Bleak.
They never bloody change, do they?
That Tory MP, Redmond or whatever his name is is the definition of the Brexiteer elite scum that are pushing for no deal and that could not care less about the ordinary people. Phillips is vile but she isn’t stupid. Thought the two remain MP’s spoke quite well especially the labour fella seem like two decent chaps.
John Redwood. He's a disingenuous MP.
There's another debate on Channel 5 at 10.
US culture wars are definitely on their way, if they’re not here already.
Brexit is a culture war.
A hard border, in the event of a no deal, would be inevitable. As Ivan Rogers pits it today, “Nor can you just wish away issues at borders, whether on land or cross-Channel, when the entire purpose of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union must be to run deliberately different regulatory regimes – chosen by your own Parliament – where you believe it suits you. Such choices by definition entail a hard border. Borders across the whole world demarcate different regulatory regimes.”
A hard border isn’t a way to prevent Brexit. It is an inevitable consequence of Brexit and I wish the Brexiters would be grown up enough to admit it.
Meeting of all opposition parties tomorrow
Wonder if they might agree to block an election vote till after they have passed the extension legistlation?
And if so would Boris call a vote of confidence in himself
Wonder if they might agree to block an election vote till after they have passed the extension legistlation?
And if so would Boris call a vote of confidence in himself
People are more interested in the dog, this is what we are up against.
Can anyone deny that Brexit was about rich people not wanting to pay taxes that they have been hiding and using poor racists to vote for leave in the referendum?
Jesus it’s playing out like a plot in Star Wars. Arise Lord Farage
Redwood looked like a cnut and when he opened his mouth sounded like one too. He also looks like moggy with grey hair
Mary Creagh said on Newsnight tonight that Labour will not vote for a GE if Johnson seeks one this week, because they believe it's a ploy to crash the country out with no deal.
Interesting thread
When?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46384207/comments
I think that the closest she got was just before she quit when she said that she would personally vote to reject a no deal exit but she never ruled no deal out in her role as PM.
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Your strawman what if argument is irrelevant. A hard border will at the very least cause even more tension and at worst could see a return to the dark days before the GFA.
And yet again we Brits are showing just how little we give a toss about Northern Ireland. It is morally reprehensible.
He's Schrodinger's Marxist. Patently too weak and ineffectual to be Leader of the Opposition, but liable to transform into Megatron Stalin if given even the smallest chance to lead the country.
You missed the chance to go with Optimus Marx.
Optic-Marx Prime, surely?
... or Megatrotsk
....or Englesbee
These are the only 3 transformers I know.
But hey! Isn’t it really funny that we’re talking about this whist the Tories are doing everything they accused Corbyn of wanting to do surreptitiously, but completely in the open and with the full backing of most of the media!? Hahahahahahaha, puns...
... or Megatrotsk
....or Englesbee
These are the only 3 transformers I know.
But hey! Isn’t it really funny that we’re talking about this whist the Tories are doing everything they accused Corbyn of wanting to do surreptitiously, but completely in the open and with the full backing of most of the media!? Hahahahahahaha, puns...
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Tory civil war erupts after Boris Johnson threatens snap election on Monday October 14 if Remainers vote to block No Deal today as Hammond dares PM to deselect him and Rudd warns him to not sack rebels
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420153/Boris-Johnson-threatens-call-ELECTION-Brexit.html
Why are we facing an election?
by Associate Editor Jack Doyle
Boris Johnson last night warned that if rebel MPs pass a law compelling him to extend Article 50, it would make a better deal impossible to achieve.
He said the legislation would ‘chop the legs out’ from UK negotiators when the chances of success were ‘rising’. He also said there were no circumstances in which he would personally seek a delay. He will call for an election on Monday, October 14, if the rebel bill passes.
Who decides whether one should be held?
Mr Johnson cannot simply call a general election. Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, passed by the Lib Dem/Tory Coalition, two-thirds of MPs must approve. Jeremy Corbyn yesterday said the UK ‘needs’ a general election, making it all but impossible for Labour to resist one. However, MPs would agree only if they could ensure the election did not take place after October 31, Brexit day, denying Mr Johnson any opportunity to change the date.
When would the poll be?
By law, the minimum campaigning period before an election is 25 working days from the dissolution of Parliament until polling day. That makes an election possible at any point from Friday, October 11. Last night sources suggested that if the legislation passes, No 10 could hold a vote tomorrow for an election on Monday, October 14.
What happens today?
At 2.30pm the Commons sits for the first time since the end of July. On one side stands Mr Johnson and the Government and on the other a ‘Rebel Alliance’ made up of Labour, other opposition parties and some backbench Tories out to stop No Deal. The time available for the rebels is so short because Parliament will be prorogued next week.
What is the rebels’ plan?
Draft legislation published last night would force the Prime Minister to ask for, and agree, a three-month delay, until January 31, 2020, if no deal is agreed with the EU. If Brussels offered an extension of any other time period he would also be forced to swallow that. The four-page European Union (Withdrawal) Bill No 6 even contains a copy of the letter the Prime Minister will be forced to sign.
Can they win the vote?
It will be close, but rebel leaders are confident. They have around 15 backers – likely to be enough to win the day. Mr Johnson’s threat to remove the whip from any Tory who joins the rebellion – making it impossible for them to stand at the next election – appears to have peeled only a few off.
The rebels include Philip Hammond and David Gauke who were until just a few months ago senior Cabinet ministers. If they seize the order paper tomorrow, the bill will come before the Commons on Wednesday from 3pm. It has to pass the Commons, and the Lords, by Thursday.
What happens if they lose?
If they fail to muster a majority, Mr Johnson goes to Brussels on October 17 for the EU Council with the threat of No Deal in his armoury. Downing Street officials argue this is the only way he can extract concessions on the withdrawal agreement. Mr Johnson wants EU leaders to scrap the ‘anti-democratic’ backstop.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420153/Boris-Johnson-threatens-call-ELECTION-Brexit.html
Why are we facing an election?
by Associate Editor Jack Doyle
Boris Johnson last night warned that if rebel MPs pass a law compelling him to extend Article 50, it would make a better deal impossible to achieve.
He said the legislation would ‘chop the legs out’ from UK negotiators when the chances of success were ‘rising’. He also said there were no circumstances in which he would personally seek a delay. He will call for an election on Monday, October 14, if the rebel bill passes.
Who decides whether one should be held?
Mr Johnson cannot simply call a general election. Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, passed by the Lib Dem/Tory Coalition, two-thirds of MPs must approve. Jeremy Corbyn yesterday said the UK ‘needs’ a general election, making it all but impossible for Labour to resist one. However, MPs would agree only if they could ensure the election did not take place after October 31, Brexit day, denying Mr Johnson any opportunity to change the date.
When would the poll be?
By law, the minimum campaigning period before an election is 25 working days from the dissolution of Parliament until polling day. That makes an election possible at any point from Friday, October 11. Last night sources suggested that if the legislation passes, No 10 could hold a vote tomorrow for an election on Monday, October 14.
What happens today?
At 2.30pm the Commons sits for the first time since the end of July. On one side stands Mr Johnson and the Government and on the other a ‘Rebel Alliance’ made up of Labour, other opposition parties and some backbench Tories out to stop No Deal. The time available for the rebels is so short because Parliament will be prorogued next week.
What is the rebels’ plan?
Draft legislation published last night would force the Prime Minister to ask for, and agree, a three-month delay, until January 31, 2020, if no deal is agreed with the EU. If Brussels offered an extension of any other time period he would also be forced to swallow that. The four-page European Union (Withdrawal) Bill No 6 even contains a copy of the letter the Prime Minister will be forced to sign.
Can they win the vote?
It will be close, but rebel leaders are confident. They have around 15 backers – likely to be enough to win the day. Mr Johnson’s threat to remove the whip from any Tory who joins the rebellion – making it impossible for them to stand at the next election – appears to have peeled only a few off.
The rebels include Philip Hammond and David Gauke who were until just a few months ago senior Cabinet ministers. If they seize the order paper tomorrow, the bill will come before the Commons on Wednesday from 3pm. It has to pass the Commons, and the Lords, by Thursday.
What happens if they lose?
If they fail to muster a majority, Mr Johnson goes to Brussels on October 17 for the EU Council with the threat of No Deal in his armoury. Downing Street officials argue this is the only way he can extract concessions on the withdrawal agreement. Mr Johnson wants EU leaders to scrap the ‘anti-democratic’ backstop.
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Still think Optimus Marx is better.
Click on tweet for full list.
Are all these Tory ‘rebels’ in clear majority ‘leave’ constituencies? If deselected in a snap election, isn’t there a massive risk to BJ that Labour could win many of those seats on a ‘what type of deal referendum’ platform?
Also, I thought May was also solemnly against no deal. What way will she vote in rebel bill and/or vonc?
If May votes with Goverment rebels, would BJ also withdraw Tory whip from her?
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It isn't a complete list of anti no-deal Tories, just those that are willing to act now. There are others who are waiting to see if the EU will make concessions at the summit on the 17th and when they don't will then propose/back anti no-deal aaction. I'm not sure if May is one of those or not.
Quite convinced now that my analysis the other day [legislate, VoNC] is the best way forward for the rebels. Voting down BJ's snap election call in the middle. All relies on Corbyn not getting giddy and tory rebels holding nerve.
I've been working since before 5am on a strategy today, and I'm still not sure what to do. I'm gonna sell out my shorts in gbp today I think. Thankfully I'm over 60% in gold etc now, but I'm still fecked.
I've been working since before 5am on a strategy today, and I'm still not sure what to do. I'm gonna sell out my shorts in gbp today I think. Thankfully I'm over 60% in gold etc now, but I'm still fecked.
I think voting to leave the EU, the single market, and the customs union was the wrong thing to do.
I don't think they are morally reprehensible in themselves.
It's easy to say this kind of thing as a remain voter but it makes you responsible for any reaction to a frustration of the leave vote. Which as I am voting for a remain party at the next election or remain in a referendum re-run, I don't want to be on the moral hook for the overreaction which will follow.
It follows directly from your logic that if Brexiteers turn to violence after parliament stops the UK leaving then every remain voter is morally reprehensible and responsible for any insane reaction to it.
That has to be bullshit.
Hammond saying rebels have the numbers to pass legislation.
Pound hits lowest level in 34 years...
If they didn't, Downing street wouldn't have got into such a panic yesterday. Pretty sure I mentioned this earlier, but it's quite clear they have the numbers. [Partially the reason why I think it's time to sell the shorts on GBP. It will bounce, then drop again when BJ tries to hold an election before the legislation can get through]
Treating Northern Ireland with such contempt is morally reprehensible especially after we finally did something to address the misery we have caused there over hundreds of years. Even if people can't be bothered to think about it.
And there is no equivalence. People may protest against things and sometimes that may turn violent. That is a police mstter and nothing to do with repeating past discrimination and injustice as a society, on a whole province. Very different things.
against the $ i presume 9think it was lower against the € last week?
anyway Im sure the brexiteers think this is great news as it will make us super competative at exporting to the USA once we
Heard this quite a few times recently and yet when it comes to vote they all shit the bed.
So say if this legislation passes which forces the PM to seek an extension, is there any provision which provides a solution to if the EU refused any extension? Would the PM or Parliament then look to revoke A50?
Or what if Boris simply refuses to comply with the law? Wouldn't put it past the fat oaf.
Or what if Boris simply refuses to comply with the law? Wouldn't put it past the fat oaf.