Cavani had 4 goals in his last season there. Icardi has 7 this season. . PSG scored 22 more goals than Lille while having the second best defence, conceding just 5 more than Lille, yet again.
Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch
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I'm torn with that one. I agree with you if we are thinking about short term but this PSG team needs a rebuild and he is the type of manager that can do that job before the club hands the finished team to a winner.
If he's allowed to actually rebuild them then sure. But they're usually pretty quick to get rid of managers. Also not sure how much room managers have to maneuver with the attacking talent there on huge pay. Does his rebuild involve targets like Herrera, Guye etc?
They give them a mission and the length of their contract. The question is what is Pochettino's mission? Gueye and Herrera were brought two years ago when they were trying to maximise the last years of players like Di Maria, Silva and Cavani, on top of Mbappé. None of these players are part of the future beyond 2022, Mbappé is likely gone and a new team has to be built around Neymar, PSG don't have a lot of attacking talent.
No. Are we saying that the have none of the talent of that side though? Are we saying that this Lille side has anywhere near the level of ability PSG has in theirs? Lille assembled a pretty modest group of players that won a pretty modest league. The only team that has any true talent in it was the one Poch took over. You could say the likes of Di Maria aren't what they used to be, but we can say the same about a a couple of defenders let go by Southampton because they were no longer up to scratch (with a combined age of 69), or a 35 year old CF thats been a decent albeit unspectacular player in Turkey?
They won the league that year by 16 points... They lost 5 games that season and 4 of them were in the last 8. The season had been over long before the last ball was kicked. It's fair to say if they really wanted to get to 100 points they more than could have.
Why am I and others desperate for pointing out he failed to win the league with a team that was heavily favourite to win the league? Conversely, why are some so desperate to defend him? As if his job was an impossible one. As he couldn't make up one point against a pretty poor Lille side.
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Yes or No. Is the 2018-19 side with Cavani scoring 21 league goals and Thiago leading the side, 5 points better over a season than this current PSG side?
I’d say it’s a no brainer.
Not to defend Poch, but the only quality players in that team are:
The team does not have a strong bench and is filled with average to good players like Herrera, Paredes, Gueya, Pereira and so on
They still need new FBs, maybe 1 or 2 quality CMs, and at least one CF as they didn't replace Cavani's quality yet.
- Navas
- Kimbempe
- Marquinhos
- Veratti
- Neymar
- Mbappe
- Di Maria*
The team does not have a strong bench and is filled with average to good players like Herrera, Paredes, Gueya, Pereira and so on
They still need new FBs, maybe 1 or 2 quality CMs, and at least one CF as they didn't replace Cavani's quality yet.
Lille just averaged 2.18 points per game over the season.
Poch managed 2.26 for his time.
I’d say you’re looking at it too black and white. You’re basically expecting this PSG to pick up points at a rate close or equal to a much better PsG side did in their last full season. You’re also completely ignoring that Poch’s points per game over a season, would’ve won them the league.
I’m saying “desperate” because many are jumping at the first chance to judge him, but the stats compared to 2018-19 say his side performed around their level, why judge now? I’m not saying he’s done well, or poor, I’m saying he managed to pick up a little from his predecessor, picked up points at a pretty expected rate for any manager there, and needs a Summer before being judged. There’s nothing in his time so far that sticks out, good or bad.
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I see people still trying to compare points across different seasons.
The most basic question is has PSG got more quality in their team than LIlle at the moment, nothing to do with 2019 or 2006 or 1989. I think the answers pretty obvious.
The most basic question is has PSG got more quality in their team than LIlle at the moment, nothing to do with 2019 or 2006 or 1989. I think the answers pretty obvious.
Yes, and Poch picked up more points per game than they managed over the season, so a full season of that, wins them the league.
Poch managed 2.26, they managed 2.18 over the season. That’s why judging over a part season is desperate.
They were one point behind mate, you can pick the bones out of decimal point figures all you want
And was 0 points better off than them for the half a season he was there. You can try to dress it up any which way you like, it doesn't change the fact. If this Lille team can manage it then so can Poch and PSG. They've got to play the same teams in the same league. Comparing point tallies to teams from 3 years ago doesn't make the achievement any greater or worse.
In a season where they lost 4 of their 5 games in the last 8 games of the season and still finished 16 points ahead of second. You say that I'm looking at it in black and white and yet you don't want to acknowledge this. You're drawing a direct comparison knowing that they had the league tied up and took thier foot off the gas.
Yes there was a significant improvement.
It's quite easy to compare as they both had 19 league games, so half a season each.
Lampard was sacked with 29pts from 19 games. That's 1.5 pts per game with a 42% win rate with the team in 9th place.
Tuchel got 38 pts from the remaining 19. That's 2pts per game with a win rate of 57%. He got them into the top 4 and was second only to Man City in terms of pts gained over the second half of the season.
You can have a look here if you like:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pre...e/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2020&min=20&max=38
In the words of Yoda, how embarrassing, how embarrassing...
Absolutely. It's a way to remove context and cast their failure to win the league in a better light.
People is overestimating the quality of PSG squad.
Mbappé and Neymar are the ones making Ligue 1 look easy for PSG, if you take them out PSG would probably have troubles securing a CL spot.
Trying to give Poch an Expected League Title based on average points. 
I wouldn't agree all better, but certainly PSG are the better squad. But yeah I'm not disagreeing with you on him being out managed. But him and Tuchel failed to motivate the players to perform in the league to the required standard. It's clear one eye was on the Champions league the entire time and once that was gone, the season fell flat.
I think people are being a little harsh on Poch here yeah they didn't win the league but he'll need time to make the team his own. It can be hard to come into a team mid-season.
Other managers also struggle if they come in mid-season, look at Tuch at Chelsea started off brightly but has trailed off since then even though they might still win the CL. Sols took over United in late 2018 and despite a good run at first the wheels came off towards the end of the season. Even Klop didn't do much to improve Liverpool's league position when he came in mid-season back in 2015. Same with Mour last year with Spurs when he replace Poch.
Sometimes it works though mostly only at Chelsea like when Chelsea hired Hidd back in 2009 he got Cl football and won the FA Cup, 2012 when they brought in DiMa and they won the CL and FA Cup and 2013 when they hired Beni and they finished 3rd and won the Europa League.
Other managers also struggle if they come in mid-season, look at Tuch at Chelsea started off brightly but has trailed off since then even though they might still win the CL. Sols took over United in late 2018 and despite a good run at first the wheels came off towards the end of the season. Even Klop didn't do much to improve Liverpool's league position when he came in mid-season back in 2015. Same with Mour last year with Spurs when he replace Poch.
Sometimes it works though mostly only at Chelsea like when Chelsea hired Hidd back in 2009 he got Cl football and won the FA Cup, 2012 when they brought in DiMa and they won the CL and FA Cup and 2013 when they hired Beni and they finished 3rd and won the Europa League.
Very few of Lille's players would be good enough to challenge for a starting place. The league is poor. The only teams not to finish bottom of their groups in Europe were PSG and Lille, and Lille then got well beaten in the round of 32 of the Europa League. PSG shouldn't have dropped so many points in the league. Poch had amble opportunity to overtake Lille and failed to do so.
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You even shortened Klopp
Tuchel got the team into the top 4, to an FA cup final, and a CL final. Ole, in his first four months at the club had the team flying. Poch was sacked when they were in 14th place and they finished the season in 6th under Jose.
I wouldn't take that post of mine too seriously mate.
You even shortened Klopp
Of course you have to in here.
That can easily be explained away by the new manager bounce. The fact he almost finished 5th and ended up 2 points above 6th tells me that ppg is too close to actually mean anything
Ok so a difference of 0.5pts per game is too close and a new manager bounce lasting half a season are what you're going with?
The fact that the only other team to get more points than them over those 19 games was City, tells you what?
Fair enough you've made your mind up and are ignoring the facts. That's fine but don't pretend you've a logical argument.
But isn't it an 18 month contract though? Not sure how much rebuilding he'd do with that sort of time...
PSG don't give longer contracts(two seasons is the norm), it's a protection for themselves more than a sign of anything else. They could extend him the way they did with Tuchel. Also there is likely an option in that contract, PSG always have them.
He can only be judged by next season, though.
Chelseas entire managerial model is built on the new manager bounce. Go through every single new appointment and they have good stats when they take over. It means very little. Plus that bounce lasted nowhere near half a season. Theyve been struggling to win 2 in a row for a few months now and theres no way thst can be flagged up as an achievement. The basis for the flashy ppg stats etc comes from those initial games at the start of his reign, hence the bounce.
When Chelsea hired Tuchel, being 2 points above 6th wpuld be considered not making that much of a difference. They arent Arsenal ffs
Your initial point was there wasn't much improvement. I showed you that there was improvement and now you're making nebulous new manager bounce arguments and telling me that they aren't Arsenal or something.
Context is important here.My initial point was in relation to another poster comparing Poch not improving PSG very much with the improvement Tuchel made to results at Chelsea.
Results have improved at Chelsea. That is a fact. The point I was making was that for Tuchel following Lampard there was likely to be an improvement as things were pretty bad. For Poch following Tuchel there wasn't as much scope for short-term improvement as Tuchel is a much better manager than Lampard.
This was a point about the comparitive improvement in results at the two clubs from where they were when both managers came in. In this context, I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell me.
PSG's squad is about Everton level if you take out their 2 megastars and Verratti who's always injured anyway.
So was Barcelona's if you took out Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Pique and Busquets.The excuses for not winning the league are absurd. It's a one horse race and he finished second. The title wasn't over one game, those names weren't missing all season. It's about as embarrassing as it gets.
That's Lenonardo's job to rebuild, it's the managers job to manage and win games at PSG. Something Pochettino hasn't done.
Trying to give Poch an Expected League Title based on average points.
Absolutely no-one is trying to do that.
My only point is, he got part of a season and not a single transfer nor pre-season to work on his team.
He picked up more points in his spell per game than Lille did over the season.
Was it great? No. Was it shit? No.
Is it better to judge a manager after a Summer and at least a chance to shape his squad somewhat? Yes, obviously.
The difference is, all those mentioned teams were SIGNIFICANTLY underachieving. This current PSG side were “slightly” underachieving, he picked up a tad from that slight underachievement.
You’ll struggle to find a good comparison due to how rare it is for a club fire a manager who’s in 2nd, a point off the top.
If you take out Mbappe and Neymar, clearly, PSG is weaker. However, its just not like Marguinhos, Icardi, Di Maria, Paredes, Draxler, Gueye, Kimpembe etc are cloggers.
Everton finished 10th. I do not believe PSG would finish 10th in the Premier League without Mbappe and Neymar. However, even if you think they would, they actually had Mbappe and Neymar and weren't able to overturn a one point deficit to Lille over several months.
Pochettino is not working with garbage. Its not all his fault that, over several months, his PSG couldn't overturn a 1 point deficit. However, people have the right to ask about what he's been doing. With PSG's goal difference the difference between winning and losing the title was losing 3-2 to Lorient, who finished just above the drop zone. Are we not allowed to believe the PSG squad should have at least drawn that game having been ahead until the 80th minute?
Next people will be claiming Pochettino has overperformed with this PSG squad.
They have more good players than just those three. They also lost more league games with Veratti than without him.
But you could do this with every team then anyway bar City.
Our squad is about Everton level if you take out Bruno and Rashford and Pogba who’s always injured anyway.
Liverpool‘s squad is about Everton’s level if you take out Salah and Mane and VvD who was injured this season anyway.
The excuses for not winning the league are absurd. It's a one horse race and he finished second. The title wasn't over one game, those names weren't missing all season. It's about as embarrassing as it gets.
Yeah, taking out 2 players is the same as taking out 8 players.
Was never convinced by Poch. Lets see what he does with this squad on a significantly higher budget than Spurs.
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