The thing is how can you move a goalkeeper like that?
If the club don't extend his contract, he will find it difficult to find a club to give him even half of what he earns at United on a free transfer.
Dean Henderson | Nottingham Forest loan watch
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The thing is how can you move a goalkeeper like that?
If the club don't extend his contract, he will find it difficult to find a club to give him even half of what he earns at United on a free transfer.
At least if he leaves on a free he'd get a big whopping signing-on bonus which would probably cover some of his wage shortfall.
But yeah, moving him on this summer would have been nearly impossible.
It's not an argument I really want to keep having because I tend to agree that neither are the answer so it's kind of pointless...I just find the malice towards Henderson quite strange considering he's still our player.
I also find it mega-frustrating that we still have DDG knocking around on £350K per week. I think that last big contract we gave him was one of the craziest decisions we made during the Woodward/Judge calamity years and that's saying something!
Bad day at the office. Should have probably done better on a few on them.
Won't be the last keeper to ship 6 against City this season.
Won't be the last keeper to ship 6 against City this season.
The thing was Henderson was better than De Gea when they were both playing and this led to our defense having much better stats.
People keep saying his shit but don’t accept that he was by proof better than De Gea - especially how he makes a team play from being a more all rounded goalkeeper.
De gea winning some random players Oscar means crap all to me - because he is usually making wonder saves both in quantity and quality from the rubbish he himself causes the team play in - making de gea look like the savior than what he actually is - the virus that is spreading deep from within the start of the teams core.
People are now so hurt by what Henderson says that they don’t realize he is playing for a team that just got promoted last year and far from a big team. Whether it’s Manuel Neurer or not - they are not going to be that great playing for Nottingham forest - especially against a team like City shining their new toys like Alvarez and Haaland.
People keep saying his shit but don’t accept that he was by proof better than De Gea - especially how he makes a team play from being a more all rounded goalkeeper.
De gea winning some random players Oscar means crap all to me - because he is usually making wonder saves both in quantity and quality from the rubbish he himself causes the team play in - making de gea look like the savior than what he actually is - the virus that is spreading deep from within the start of the teams core.
People are now so hurt by what Henderson says that they don’t realize he is playing for a team that just got promoted last year and far from a big team. Whether it’s Manuel Neurer or not - they are not going to be that great playing for Nottingham forest - especially against a team like City shining their new toys like Alvarez and Haaland.
But that is the big issue though. Not selling them and having them rot on the bench clearly results in unhappy players, especially if they are experienced players. The sooner we get rid of them the better. With good scouting it should be possible to replace them easily as well.
He had about a few months of good form in about 4 years. And while his shot stopping was good in that period, he was still crap in everything else. And if he gets that form back, he would still only be about on par with Henderson as the reason he has to pull off the 'great saves' is because of how passive and crap he is at everything else.
Ten Hag wants a ball playing keeper, and both of these clowns are not it.
hes crap 
According to himself he isn't a United player.
Good keeper.
Bad attitude.
Bad attitude.
I can’t agree with this, he’d absolutely be one of my very first ports of call, if Leeds were to go down they’d find an email asking his price in their inbox before they got back in the office. Think they’d be very reluctant to sell to us while they remain in the league mind.
It’s worth remembering that Sheffield United made the likes of Ramsdale look atrocious, when you’re getting peppered like crap defences like Leeds allow then it’s a statistical certainty that a few clangers will go in.
How is it clear what Solskjær told anyone? Did you in fact listen to it first hand, or do you believe players whom the club ousted because they were full of gobshite to the media? Solskjær is known to be friendly, but also very demanding and quite ruthless when he needs to be, so perhaps not clearly around just telling everyone what they needed to know.
Also, DDG being the worst goalie in the league? Well, I'm not so sure about that. Him being top six at this point, probably not. I think too much emphasis is placed on his distribution and commanding of the box. Not that many goalies are great at commanding the box - there is nobody similar to Schmeichel in that regard. That does not, however, mean that DDG should not, and must, improve. It's a glaring weakness of his. The same applies with his kicking, but it has improved ever so slightly.
I genuinly think we are too harsh on our own most of the time. Mendy has been very questionable this season. Henderson hasn't been very good, and there have been howlers from most goalies.
Squawka has him down as the 7th best: https://www.squawka.com/en/best-premier-league-goalkeepers-ranked/
Sounds reasonable enough to me - several others have him from 4-7 - so thereabouts.
He was our player of the year just last season. He is not as good as he was before, but he is still easy a top 10 keeper, probably a top 5 one. The only ones I can say are definitely better are Allison and Ederson with a few others like Loris being a bit better but not by much.
It would likely be nice to upgrade him, but Henderson is downgrading him. Plus he is an ass.
I agree with you but people have made their minds up on Henderson for various reasons, none of which are actually factual. Firstly, it was rumoured that he was one of the players leaking information last season, which seems to have become fact for no apparent reason. Second, he's seen as incredibly arrogant when the reality has to be the complete opposite, given his interview before the season where he said he wanted out before Ten Hag saw him because he knew he'd want to keep him (implying heavily as a back-up) showed that he actually had very little confidence that he was going to displace De Gea under a new manager which was frankly astounding. Third, he's English, which appears to be an automatic black mark against a player on this forum. Fourth, he made a couple of mistakes during his spell in the team which we nothing on errors De Gea has made literally in the last month but for some reason people are happy to forget about them.
Go on then, list the clubs that would swap their goalkeeper for De Gea. All 15 of them.
Meslier was statistically the worst keeper in the league for shot-stopping last year. He was better the year before, but in general I don't find him to be particularly inspiring in net - whenever I watch him (and unfortunately I end up watching a lot of Leeds matches) he strikes me as having really weak wrists, plus the bloke is a giant, yet somehow still manages to look really small/sleight in net.
But then I also still think Ramsdale isn't very good... so yeah.
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The funny thing about Deans fans is how they will slate DDG every chance they get and call him the worst goalkeeper I'm the league etc. But as soon as someone (rightfully) criticizes Dean it's labeled as toxic.
The sooner we get rid of him the better.
De Gea will be gone next season and we will be able to find a great new keeper.
Dubravka and De Gea for this season is fine.
The sooner we get rid of him the better.
De Gea will be gone next season and we will be able to find a great new keeper.
Dubravka and De Gea for this season is fine.
Just watched the highlights and surprised (well not really) about the intense bitterness in this thread. Poor kick for the 2nd goal and perhaps could have done better on a couple others but nothing too concerning about any of the goals he conceded. Hope he can have a good season and we either sell him for decent fee (my preference) or ETH decides to try him as no.1.
I dont think he can be first choice for United. We have seen in the first few games, he is not that good. Some of the goals conceded have been his fault. He didn't even dive for Kane.
I watched that game and his kicking was terrible, if DDG was told, everytime the ball comes just launch it as hard as you can upfront, any keeper can do that.
Where we need a keeper to be different to DDG, Henderson isnt the answer.
At least DDG specialises in shot stopping, I couldn't tell you Henderson's.
Maybe penalties?
I watched that game and his kicking was terrible, if DDG was told, everytime the ball comes just launch it as hard as you can upfront, any keeper can do that.
Where we need a keeper to be different to DDG, Henderson isnt the answer.
At least DDG specialises in shot stopping, I couldn't tell you Henderson's.
Maybe penalties?
https://www.squawka.com/en/best-premier-league-goalkeepers-ranked/
https://www.90min.com/posts/premier-league-best-goalkeepers-ranked
https://the18.com/en/soccer-entertainment/epl-goalie-rankings-2020
So anything from the 4th best to the 7th best, which sounds about right - he's no longer the best, and his stand-out quality shot stopping isn't quite as good as it was, but still better than most. He used to be great one on one, but not so much anymore.
Cool you've provided me the opinions of some journalists. The last one of which appears to be incapable of using statistics properly. As I said, give me the 15 clubs that would swap their current goalkeeper for De Gea.
Well, according to those, there would be a number of clubs willing to swap their current goalie.
What makes him the worst goalie in the league? Statistics show that he is top 10, or even top 5 goalie in the league. I've seen plenty of other goalies make howlers regularly with their feet and with shot stopping and/or trying to catch crosses. I also regularly watch goals where I think DDG would have saved that... That includes goalies such as Ederson and Allisson. Allisson is, btw, lucky as hell that his poor kicking doesn't return in conceding more goals - he's not a patch on Ederson, which some think he is.
I would say that he is comfortably the second best in the league at it, although Ederson is far better at that. Allison has to easily be the best keeper in the league though.
I didn't say he was the world goalkeeper in the league, that was another poster. You said he was top 5 so I challenged you to name the 15 clubs that would replace their current goalkeeper with him which for some reason you are refusing to do. I'm intrigued to hear your list, genuinely.
By the way, the statistics certainly don't back up that he's a top 5 goalkeeper in the league. You cannot be statistically the worst goalkeeper in the entire league at preventing opportunities and be considered one of the top 5 goalkeepers in that league, regardless of how good you shot stopping is perceived to be, because the reality is that if you did your job properly in the first place, you wouldn't have half the shots to save. The statistics show that he had an unsustainably high shot stopping level in the first half of last season - alongside his embarrassingly poor stats relating to crossing, sweeping and distribution - and in the second half of the season his shot stopping level was one of the worst in the league (circa -4 PSxG IIRC).
If you wish to delve further into the statistics going back to the three seasons previous to last, his PSxG levels were +0.1, +2.1 & +0.1, so as average as they come in terms of shot stopping, which when considered that he offers nothing whatsoever in terms of shot prevention, is not pretty reading at all. So over the past 4 seasons, he has statistically performed to the level required for a goal-line-goalkeeper of his style for half a season. On what planet are 15 (or even 10) clubs swapping their goalkeepers for him?
If you’re promised, you’re promised. Seems like Ole talked out of turn, lied, or just made a mistake. Agreed it’s not how
Guess Dean should have got it in writing?
Yeah. He should have said that Covid could change things.
Na. It was another of way it saying I don’t want to impress Ten Hag to only rot on the bench for another year
The issue with the overuse of stats is that they we don't really have a stat for incorrect placement in goal which is Deans biggest issue.
He takes too many risks and seem to struggle with his surroundings from time to time, which causes quite a few mishaps on a regular basis, at least did so last season. He was lucky not to concede several goals on that basis alone, which would change the narrative completely. Ederson is the best I have ever seen - more comfortable on the ball than most centre backs. For City, Ederson is preferable. Alisson is good, but I think he is overrated.
I find it hard to believe that in most ranking available, he is always top ten or top five goalie, but you have a deeper understanding of why he is one of the worst? I don't watch every club on a regular basis, so I am hard pressed to say which goalies in the lesser clubs are better than him.
Statistics discussing preventing shot stopping is a difficult metric considering there are so many variables on who is in fact in front of you. How good are the defenders at creating channels for you - how is the chemistry etc etc. Maguire who kept running into his own players, or pulling the shirts of teammates also makes it more difficult. I think I want to see DDG under ETH to properly judge him in that respect. Mourinho and Solskjær hardly excelled at tactics playing out from the back. Considering we also had defenders who were equally bad at it as DDG, it will therefore be interesting to see a line up with Varane, Martinez and Casemiro all better suited to receiving the ball under pressure.
I can't really understand why people are discussing the goalie situation at United like there are only two goalkeepers in the world to choose from. It's arguing for arguing's sake. As far as i'm concerned, De Gea's contributions nowadays (and with one eye toward the modern trend that wants GKs to be commanding and good with their feet), compared to his massive wages, is yet another anomaly of the Woodward/Solskjaer era that has to be addressed in the near future. And Henderson should be nothing more than a back-up keeper for any club that aspires to challenge for the big prizes. No sensible big club would either pay De Gea the silly money he's getting here or consider Henderson as its main goalkeeper.
Other than that, Henderson has the right to feel hard done by Solskjaer (assuming that the latter did promise him the No1 spot in the team). People need to keep in mind that this is not like any other position on the pitch. In the vast majority of cases the hierarchy in the GK spot is pretty clear and changes, within the season, occur rarely. He probably feels that he wasted a whole season while his main competitors for a place in the NT squad (Pickford, Ramsdale, Pope etc.) are all starting for their respective clubs. From his point of view, the frustration is understandable.
One last thing. Playing fairly away from the goalposts doesn't automatically make you a "proactive GK", just like running after the ball like a headless chicken (Fred comes to mind) doesn't make you a proactive midfielder. Reading the game well and using this ability to turn the odds to your favour does that. An overconfident keeper can be just as detrimental to his team as a reluctant/diffident one. It's just that they make different mistakes. Anyway, i expect them both to be out of the club at some point during Ten Hag's tenure. Until then, keep counting the goals De Gea concedes because he's glued between the sticks, as well as the goals Henderson lets in a standing position, and see who wins the duel.
Other than that, Henderson has the right to feel hard done by Solskjaer (assuming that the latter did promise him the No1 spot in the team). People need to keep in mind that this is not like any other position on the pitch. In the vast majority of cases the hierarchy in the GK spot is pretty clear and changes, within the season, occur rarely. He probably feels that he wasted a whole season while his main competitors for a place in the NT squad (Pickford, Ramsdale, Pope etc.) are all starting for their respective clubs. From his point of view, the frustration is understandable.
One last thing. Playing fairly away from the goalposts doesn't automatically make you a "proactive GK", just like running after the ball like a headless chicken (Fred comes to mind) doesn't make you a proactive midfielder. Reading the game well and using this ability to turn the odds to your favour does that. An overconfident keeper can be just as detrimental to his team as a reluctant/diffident one. It's just that they make different mistakes. Anyway, i expect them both to be out of the club at some point during Ten Hag's tenure. Until then, keep counting the goals De Gea concedes because he's glued between the sticks, as well as the goals Henderson lets in a standing position, and see who wins the duel.
I'm sorry but are you trying to suggest that these lists are put together by experts? They are put together by journalists (or in most cases, wannabe journalists) who struggle to see past shot stopping and reputations, like the vast majority of the "Top 10 XYZ" lists on any subject you see online. They aren't usually put together by people that know the position or watch these goalkeepers regularly in person, as shown by the one article you showed that tried to use statistics but failed miserably in doing so. In most cases I'd argue it's not a lot different to you picking your top 10, even though by your own admission you don't watch many of the clubs in the league. You can't say "he is easily a top 10 keeper, probably a top 5 one" without, by your own admission, having any knowledge about the other goalkeepers you are dismissing as worse than him.
And for the record, PSxG isn't a difficult metric to use and completely removes the defenders from the equation, it uses the xG metric and purely looks at the likelihood on average of a goalkeeper saving the shot on target. The quality of defenders in front of you is irrelevant to the metric. That is the whole reason people were using it last season to try and convince themselves he was having a good season. As for trying to defend his distribution, I'm guessing you just didn't watch the Brighton & Brentford games and didn't notice that we almost entirely stopped passing it out from the back against Liverpool & Southampton?
Doesn't this theoretically come through in xG? Poor placement will result in more goals conceded, which will reflect as poor performance vs. xG?
You watch every team extensively then? By your own admission, you have that knowledge...
I do watch every United match, so I do get to see every team twice, and seeing as I also watch some matches here and there, by default some of the other teams more regularly, but I am far from able or willing to watch Fulham vs Nottinham Forest on a regular basis. So not having ANY knowledge of other goalies, as you claim is factually wrong. Do you know all the goalies in the league extensively, more so than the silly journalists whom you do not recognize?
I actually used to play as a goalie, and albeit not at a high level, I do have some understanding of the position. I think he is too passive, but I also think it is overstated. That is why I want to see him under ETH after a few matches without the numpties in front of him. Can he be improved upon - most definitely. Is he the best goalie in the league? No he isn't. Is he the worst? Far from it.
Statistics can be used for many things, and I fail to use statistics on a regular basis because it is not my area of expertise, nor do I claim to be an expert on it. I may vey well, and most likely so, be mistaken in terms of these metrics, which actually varies from whichever analytical company performs them. So therefore, you may very well be more in the right than I am, but I fail to see why you should refrain from listening to other sources just because they differ from your opinion. Fixed mindset and all that.
no hypocrisy here - I've never said he's good enough to be our No.1 only that he's a better all-round choice than DDG. And if you read what I said rather more carefully, you'll see I never said you thought DDG was better. But, hey, facts... there a nasty little thing, aren't they?
This type of post makes me laugh. There are no 'Dean Henderson' fans. There aren't thousands of us walking around Manchester wearing 'Henderson #1' shirts. There aren't large groups of us meeting in the Bishops Blaize before games handing out Henderson badges and wearing cardboard cut-outs of his face.
Some of us just think we have managed the goalkeeping situation badly. After his season at Sheffield United, Henderson was probably a £40/45m asset. Why not sell him then if we weren't going to give him a shot?
Reeks of hindsight.
And nobody would give 40/45M for Dean Henderson.
"Talksport viewers" is probably more accurate than Henderson FC
and he was given a shot
and he was given a shot
How does it reek of hindsight? Many of us have been questioning DDGs performances for two/three seasons now.
As I said, I firmly believe that DDG between 2014-2018 was one of the top five GKs in the World. However, he hasn't been anywhere near that level since Jose's 2nd season.
You say nobody would give £40m for Henderson yet he was coming off the back of a successful loan spell in the Premier League. Why couldn't we have gotten £40m?
Yup, we absolutely could have. He was one of the best keepers in the league in that 19/20 season, heavily linked with a couple of teams over the summer (I think Chelsea were the strongest, when they were desperate to replace Kepa with a real goalkeeper). Young English keeper, already called up to the senior team - we could have used Pickford as a benchmark and gotten good money for him.
Or we should have made a real decision on starting him ahead of De Gea (who had been poor throughout 2019/20 and was a complete liability in the run-in) the next season, instead of continually swapping between them.
Because Manutd is a hoarder of a club. Give players high wages, cant sell them for a decent price.
The reason is the board, we do not sell players when they are at the highest value because we keep them until they lose all value.
Tuanzebe, Jones, Smalling, Telles, Perreira are all recent examples of this.
I agree but that's my point.
No competent club would still have De Gea in goal or be having this debate - they would have gotten rid of both and would have spent the money on a proper, modern GK