I dont see how it's anti-trans. There is only male and female. Intersex is a term used for disorders of sexual development. Because someone is unwell with the truth, doesn't make the truth go away.
Transgender rights discussion
- Thread starter crappycraperson
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I dont see how it's anti-trans. There is only male and female. Intersex is a term used for disorders of sexual development. Because someone is unwell with the truth, doesn't make the truth go away.
yes. Not every trans person suffers from gender dysphoria.
Gender and sex are two separate things.
The problem seems to be that you only like a truth that fits your world view i.e. that gender doesn't exist. Nobody is suggesting that in mammals like us that most people aren't born male or female. The issue is that some people are mentally not the sex that they are biologically. This is just as biological as anything else, and to deny it based on not being able to (or more likely refusing to) differentiate between biological sex and gender is simply being purposely cruel. You don't refuse to use any other adjective or pronoun I'd guess? Alternatively, if someone likes to be called by a name that is different to their legal name do you refuse and call them their legal name? I'm guessing not.
Interestingly the actual biologists in this thread don't see things in the binary way that you are adopting. I wonder why that is?
So if we did away with he/him she/her there would be no labelling as we would all be they/them? I'm not sure that you have through this through.
Dirty is putting it mildly, but gene names are some of the wildest/amusing things in biology.
My only quibble with the above (which was a fantastic post!!!) is that many bacteria (hilariously N. gonorrhoeae being among the foremost) are extremely promiscuous in taking up and integrating exogenous DNA. These bacteria intentionally have lax control over their genome to promote the acquisition of beneficial genes. Also, no discussion of bacterial genomes is complete without mentioning that mycoplasma is proof of alien life. I’m way off topic, but any excuse to chat microbial genetics is a win for me.
What truth doesn't fit? Are there more than male/female? I fully understand that there are many with mental disorders like gender dysphoria out there, but that still doesn't change the amount of sexes we have. I can though agree we can make it better for them by accepting them for who they are, and maybe you are right, maybe I should be more open about calling them what they want.
As are many allegedly monogomous animals (in a sexual sense) which the moral majority often hialriously use as a proof that their version of family values is the "natural" way. And then shag the nanny.
Tell me more.
You are ignoring gender and want to only think that biological sex exists. Or thinking that biological sex and gener are exactly the same thing.
You also mistakenly call gender dysphoria a mental illness. People with gender dysphoria may develop mental illness associated with this mismatching of biological sex and gender, but it isn't defined as a mental illness in of itself.
There is a simple way to to find out if someone is affected by being referred to in a way that they like, and that is to talk to them. Not always an easy conversation to start but I've never heard of a trans person being upset about being asked what they prefer and/or what that means to them. In the 3 cases I have experenced trans people are not looking to be offended and generally like that someone cares enough to ask them. Only a sample size of 3 of course but .....
And conversation like that also seem to remove or reduce the antagonism that tends to attach to such discussions, as it de-emphasises difference and creates a more empathetic relationship between people with differening views and perspectives.
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Posts like this are what makes it difficult for such discussions to remain civil and reasoned.
You might note that others can discuss things in a far more reasonble and civil manner. And your last paragraph seems intended to be as dismissive and insulting as it is uninformed.
It was a joke… kind of… It’s just a weird little bastard. Unlike most bacteria it has no cell wall, which is not all that bonkers. What is bonkers is that it has enzymes that we know do specific things, but we can’t find them because there is no homologous sequence in any other organism. It also has a tiny ass genome, I think the smallest of any living organism. I used to know more random shit but the years, and beer, have erased them. The bacterial world is full of weird little guys. Check out Vampirococcus, it is exactly what you think it is; a bacteria that attaches to other bacteria and “sucks them dry”.
This is why I went off topic. I had written a ban worthy response to the post you referenced but redirected to something fun. Some people are just assholes.
So you want to give them your label rather than addressing them as who they actually are? If you don't give a feck about what they do to their bodies physically, then you really shouldn't care what they want to identify as.
Because narcissists (huh, I found a relevant “cis”) frame everything in how it impacts them.
You know that trans people still have names right...?
You’ll have to expand on that one…
Most of the time I try to understand they arent really well thought out and try and ignore or move on. Sometimes I forget and will react. I saw that one and realised there was little to no point trying to reply, mostly because so many others in this thread are making really good points and some are asking difficult questions with fair intentions.
There's nothing quite like people being outraged at something they clearly don't understand.
this entire topic summed up quite neatly
The world would be a better place if a few more people used this.
I think this is key. We all view this in our own way, but if Bob down the road decided he hates being called Bob and wants to be called Robert…why would I purposely continue to call him Bob when he’s told me he doesn’t like that?
Personally I’m of the opinion Male is Male and Female is Female, and people can identify as either but I’m not going to shift the facts in my head of their actual sex. But I will make a conscious effort if a person wants to be known as something different. Politeness isn’t hard.
Yeah, this is basically where I fall as well. I feel like a lot of the friction around this topic comes from the fact that most people can’t seem to get their head around the fact that sex doesn’t equal gender. ‘How can you change that just by saying so?’ Well, if one is a biological fact and the other is a state of mind, it becomes a lot easier to understand.
We need a thread about microbial biology because it's been a fascinating little detour in the last page or so.
I've encountered one trans person in real life (in work). I admit I've found the whole subject a bit of a minefield and a headf*ck but, in person, I was perfectly at ease and treated her with the same dignity and respect as everyone else. As many have said, politeness costs nothing.
It struck me, though, that the vast majority of opposition to trans issues or rights highlights their appearance. Pretty much every meme/story/outrage against the trans community focuses on the ones who identify as female but don't look very feminine. You know the ones - a story (usually in America), where a violent offender identifies as female and the mugshot is of a person who looks like a man with a beard and thinning hair who has grown it to shoulder length and put some eyeliner on. Do we think that there would be such an outcry about trans people, particularly male-to-female, if they all looked like Paris Lees?
I've encountered one trans person in real life (in work). I admit I've found the whole subject a bit of a minefield and a headf*ck but, in person, I was perfectly at ease and treated her with the same dignity and respect as everyone else. As many have said, politeness costs nothing.
It struck me, though, that the vast majority of opposition to trans issues or rights highlights their appearance. Pretty much every meme/story/outrage against the trans community focuses on the ones who identify as female but don't look very feminine. You know the ones - a story (usually in America), where a violent offender identifies as female and the mugshot is of a person who looks like a man with a beard and thinning hair who has grown it to shoulder length and put some eyeliner on. Do we think that there would be such an outcry about trans people, particularly male-to-female, if they all looked like Paris Lees?
simply that there are trans people who do not identify with their sex but do not necessarily feel pain or anguish from this.
intrinsically linking being trans with pain or distress is problematic in its own right. That isn’t what defines trans people, whether they suffer dysphoria or not.
Okay. So for example, it would less bad that someone says they think child prostitution should be legal, than someone who says that opinion is wrong?
wait until Camilo finds about the denial of holocaust laws in Germany
And it’s not like this doesn’t happen outside of transsexuality. We call artists and athletes by made up names all the time. We also accept that people change their names when they marry. But for trans people this becomes an issue. And this can only be attributed to transphobia. It’s not because it’s difficult or anything. If it were, the same people would call Eminem Marshall Mathers, Lucio Lucimar da Silva Ferreira and so on. We don’t. We accept peoples choices.
May those posters who don't want to use preferred pronouns should change there usernames to their birth certificate names when on the Caf? Or just have to take whatever user name the Caf gives them.
Adults...
Obviously not and never was. They're fighting against the trans-conspiracy to end humanity.
They're just trying to help archeologists in a thousand years. Can you imagine skeletons that are not male or female? It would be chaos.
To be fair, we cope very well at the moment.
Oh no archeologists may not know if I'm male or female thousands of years in the future after I'm dead
Don't worry. They'll look at every skeleton, see absolutely no penis bones, and determine that everyone was a woman.
Maybe its from a certain level of ignorance, but I get a little annoyed when people ask me what my preferred pronouns are. I don't mind using your preferred pronouns even if I think it's silly, which I usually don't. I understand this is how they feel about themselves. I feel going out of your way to not use someones preferred pronouns is just being rude and insensitive, regardless of my stance on rights.
I think children is a tricky subject though. How do you find that balance between teaching children what's good for them and them setting their boundaries/preferences. I find that a difficult concept and not just for transgenderism.
I think children is a tricky subject though. How do you find that balance between teaching children what's good for them and them setting their boundaries/preferences. I find that a difficult concept and not just for transgenderism.
nyt, forever policing the the left wing of acceptable public opinion
I knew I was going to get these sort of replies. You just jumped because I said mentally ill like you think mental illness is some deranged psychopathy or something. Depression is a form of mental illness, too. Mental illness doesn't mean someone is 'insane', it just means that the behavioral patterns, thoughts and moods are broken. This can manifest in entirely different ways.
Someone thinking he is born in the wrong body is definitely not a sign of mental healthiness, imo
The fact that the majority of them have considered killing or have killed, or at the very least tried to kill themselves. You can look that up pretty fast. This is not a sign of a mentally fit individual. Again that doesn't mean that they should be punished or anything of the like, but they should be treated and helped, not encouraged. That is why I gave the ridiculous example of the superhero stuff. At the end of the day, if someone has a bad habit, you don't encourage him, you try to cut it out. If someone does fentanyl or meth, you don't say 'hey man, more power to you, that's healthy', instead you try to help him, if you can. Find out what's the crux of issue since there is always something deep down that has affected them to do that.
And yet another crock of shit.
You keep alluding to the possibility that being transgender is a choice. Do you believe it is a choice?
You should send your ideas to some of the highly qualified doctors and specialists who deal with these transgender kids. I'm sure that absolutely none of them have thought about this sort of stuff and have just been chucking needles filled with penis or boob juice at their patients for years.