Berbatov

Status
Not open for further replies.
esmufc07 said:
We all know there is only one love for Sam out there;)
Click to expand...

Exactly! And she's a 17 year old American, not a 26 year old Spanish male.

Brwned said:
I realise it was Ekeke who made the thread now. But you still did come out with:
Click to expand...

Fair enough. And to be honest, those comments were very spur of the moment, once I'd calmed down, I made a lot more rational comments. Although, I really can't be bothered to find them.

And, to be fair, I was deliberately coming out with those statements as a sort of mocking of the transfer muppets, something I've previously explained.
 
Brwned said:
Fair enough, but I think pace is overrated. And I'm not just saying that because you prefer Villa over pretty much everyone because he is pacey, but just in general. It is hyped up by the media as if it is the be all and end all "If there's one thing defenders hate playing against, it's pace" and all that bollocks.

I think that Berbatov and Tevez could play well quite easily, I'm sure disagree though.

But, seeing as Manucho won't be ready for the start of next season, our 4 strikers would be Rooney, Tevez, Campbell and New Striker. Berbatov could play very well with Campbell and Rooney, but not with Tevez iyo. Villa could play well with Rooney and Tevez, but not with Campbell. Therefore it depends what way you want to look at it.

It all comes down to preferences, and it is quite clear for everyone to see SAF prefers Berbatov over Villa.
Click to expand...

You know, Villa isn't as pacy as some make out. He's fast but not as fast as Torres or Saha was. He's more than just some speedy player people want to make him out to be. Besides, I'd like Eto'o or someone of that ilk just as much - as long as he's that type of player.

SAF went in for Berbatov when we were replacing Van Nistelrooy - we were a different side with different tactics back then. Since then our interest is presumed rather than fact. We put in a bid only when he was in Germany and we didnt do it with enough conviction to convince him to come...

We were 'supposedly' interested in Villa right before he went to Valencia too. But again, its presumed.
 
Ekeke said:
I dont insist thats the only place he can operate. Just pointing out thats where he's spent most of his season, like Tevez has done behind Rooney.

Berbatov actually seemed more mobile back at Leverkusen as well.

Tevez-Berbatov and Berbatov-Manucho are two slower partnerships than we've had for a long time. Rooney-Berbatov less so, but we need a player who can play next to more than 1 of our strikers. Else we'll have Ronaldo up front again.
Click to expand...

Just because he spends the majority of the time playing in that role at Spurs does not equate to him being inefficient up top or as a lone forward, it does for Tevez for us because he's not very good at leading the line where as Rooney is much better at it. What you keep saying is he can't play with all our forwards, but that is not true. He's like Ibrahimovic in the sense that he can play behind the striker to create OR play up front to lead the line, it's not necessarily one or the other, Berbatov (and Ibrahimovic) can do both of them, and given our flexible forward line, Berbatov can easily drop back to create when needed.
 
Keyzer Soze said:
Phillips-Quinn and Gudjohnsen-Hasselbaink could not be classes as speedy either im my opinion, Phillips more buzzed around and got on to flick ons. The speed, speed, speed was not what i was getting at anyway i was talking about the premise of having someone hovering on the last shoulder as most of our debates have been about. A lot of those parterships did not operate in a stereotypical way whether one of them was fast or not.
Click to expand...

Phillips was quick. Hasselbaink was quick.

Phillips was on the shoulder (hence being alert to the flick ons) and Hasselbaink made his name there too both in England and in Spain.
 
Bape said:
Just because he spends the majority of the time playing in that role at Spurs does not equate to him being inefficient up top or as a lone forward, it does for Tevez for us because he's not very good at leading the line where as Rooney is much better at it. What you keep saying is he can't play with all our forwards, but that is not true. He's like Ibrahimovic in the sense that he can play behind the striker to create OR play up front to lead the line, it's not necessarily one or the other, Berbatov (and Ibrahimovic) can do both of them, and given our flexible forward line, Berbatov can easily drop back to create when needed.
Click to expand...

Ibrahimovic is more mobile. And Berbatov will never be "needed" to create. We've done fine without him. More than fine.
 
Ekeke said:
You know, Villa isn't as pacy as some make out. He's fast but not as fast as Torres or Saha was. He's more than just some speedy player people want to make him out to be. Besides, I'd like Eto'o or someone of that ilk just as much - as long as he's that type of player.
Click to expand...

He's very fast with the ball at his feet, is very fast when running in behind because his movement is so good and he is faster than most defenders in a one on one. That's fast enough for me.

Ekeke said:
SAF went in for Berbatov when we were replacing Van Nistelrooy - we were a different side with different tactics back then. Since then our interest is presumed rather than fact. We put in a bid only when he was in Germany and we didnt do it with enough conviction to convince him to come...

We were 'supposedly' interested in Villa right before he went to Valencia too. But again, its presumed.
Click to expand...

We were trying to sell Van Nistelrooy before buying Berbatov, but it dragged on too long and he decided to go for them. I think our interest in him since then has a bit more substance than just basic paper talk, which the Villa to us probably was. At that time he was also linked to Chelsea and Liverpool, more to do with him being available for a cheap price rather than genuine interest I would think.
 
Ekeke said:
Ibrahimovic is more mobile. And Berbatov will never be "needed" to create. We've done fine without him. More than fine.
Click to expand...

Which is why I'd have him over Berbatov and Villa. He'd be perfect for our system.
 
Ekeke said:
Phillips was quick. Hasselbaink was quick.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, its your opinion but i think you are twisting facts a little bit to fit what you were saying. No offense.

Rooney, Tevez or even Ronaldo playing off a player such as Berbatov (im sick of talking like we actually own him) would be just as fast and effective as Phillips or Hasselbaink.
 
peterstorey said:
Well that's what I thought, he's been all over that Argie bint all year but a quick clack of the castenets from some Spanish tart and we see how fickle he is.
Click to expand...

feck off.

You really are a complete and utter tosser.
 
Keyzer Soze said:
Fair enough, its your opinion but i think you are twisting facts a little bit to fit what you were saying. No offense.

Rooney, Tevez or even Ronaldo playing off a player such as Berbatov (im sick of talking like we actually own him) would be just as fast and effective as Phillips or Hasselbaink.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I've been very clear about this. Both are quick and played on the shoulder looking to get in behind defences. Playing on the shoulder isnt all about looking for 40 yard long balls. Just about wanting to get in behind defences. Both those players did that. And thats what I feel we need from a new striker.
 
Ekeke said:
Ibrahimovic is more mobile. And Berbatov will never be "needed" to create. We've done fine without him. More than fine.
Click to expand...

So? You don't have to be particularly mobile to lead the line.....

We don't want a fecking static centre forward (Manucho) so Berbatov occasionally dropping back would give us alot of options. But anyway, be deluded all you like in convincing yourself Berbatov can only play with certain strikers at our club and can't lead the line.
 
Bape said:
So? You don't have to be particularly mobile to lead the line.....
Click to expand...

That's not true, you definitely need to be mobile to lead the line well. Especially in a team like ours which uses movement as its main threat.
 
We know he's a very good player, but kinda feel 50/50 about it. He's a likely target though. Bet he wishes he was a little more patient in the first place
 
Brwned said:
That's not true, you definitely need to be mobile to lead the line well. Especially in a team like ours which uses movement as its main threat.
Click to expand...

Yes, and Berbatov is not slow. No slower than Tevez for starters. People seem to think Tevez is fast, but no, he just has a few yards because he has good acceleration.
 
Bape said:
Yes, and Berbatov is not slow. No slower than Tevez for starters. People seem to think Tevez is fast, but no, he just has a few yards because he has good acceleration.
Click to expand...

Oh I know that, I am one of the ones who wants Berbatov here, and he is faster than people seem to think. I was just saying that you do need to have good movement to lead the line.
 
Ekeke said:
And Berbatov plays for Spurs dropping off of Keane and letting him do the running, orchestrating things from behind. Which is largely what Tevez did for Rooney this season.
Click to expand...
Berbatov and Keane rotate almost perfectly. Far better than Rooney and Tevez, who quite often both go too deep or run into the same area. But Berbatov and Keane are much more natural and fluid, with Berbatov normally being the one upfront when the opposition has the ball (which is the time we most need height upfront). Then when Spurs have the ball, Berbatov is normally the one who makes things happen, either by dropping deep and then playing through to Keane, or by winning the ball upfront and then offloading it from there.

If we put Berbatov and Rooney together, Rooney would be encouraged to make runs forward more often. And, just like Ronaldo, Rooney is far better when making runs from a slightly deeper area, rather than being the front man himself. And I don't think there is a striker in the world who would be better at unleashing Rooney at the right time than Berbatov.

I would like the main striker to have serious speed. But I'd make an exception for Berbatov because of everything else he brings to the table. And it's not like he's slow...he's faster than Tevez for one thing. The thought of him combining with Rooney and Ronaldo is incredible.
 
united.7 said:
pace - the relative speed of progress or change.

What's funny then?

Tevez is more reliant on pace, turn of speed, than Saha was.
Click to expand...

Tevez isn't reliant on pace because this season at least he hasn't showed that much.

Saha is more reliant on pace because you know... it's one of his top attributes.
 
MadDogg said:
Berbatov and Keane rotate almost perfectly. Far better than Rooney and Tevez, who quite often both go too deep or run into the same area. But Berbatov and Keane are much more natural and fluid, with Berbatov normally being the one upfront when the opposition has the ball (which is the time we most need height upfront). Then when Spurs have the ball, Berbatov is normally the one who makes things happen, either by dropping deep and then playing through to Keane, or by winning the ball upfront and then offloading it from there.

If we put Berbatov and Rooney together, Rooney would be encouraged to make runs forward more often. And, just like Ronaldo, Rooney is far better when making runs from a slightly deeper area, rather than being the front man himself. And I don't think there is a striker in the world who would be better at unleashing Rooney at the right time than Berbatov.

I would like the main striker to have serious speed. But I'd make an exception for Berbatov because of everything else he brings to the table. And it's not like he's slow...he's faster than Tevez for one thing. The thought of him combining with Rooney and Ronaldo is incredible.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

but...

Where does this thing about Tevez being slow come from?

Over 30 yards he would probably get caught as his little legs get tired, over 5-10 metres i don't think he is lacking in the slightest though.
 
united.7 said:
Exactly.

but...

Where does this thing about Tevez being slow come from?

Over 30 yards he would probably get caught as his little legs get tired, over 5-10 metres i don't think he is lacking in the slightest though.
Click to expand...

Have you actually watched him this past season? Or are you just guessing everything?
 
AttackingFlair said:
Tevez isn't reliant on pace because this season at least he hasn't showed that much.

Saha is more reliant on pace because you know... it's one of his top attributes.
Click to expand...

I didn't say he was reliant on pace...

I believe he does more so than Saha.

Pace, as in change of speed, i remember Saha being quick and being able to lose a marker but it wasn't a prominent part of his game. He was excellent on the ball and was superb at moving the defence around, he would find holes in a defence with intelligent runs not breaks or bursts on the counter, that would be Ronaldo or Rooney. Tevez will use his pace, as in change of speed to beat a man, chase back and evade his marker and under 10m he is as quick as most people, however having tiny legs and fatigue will make it far harder to run longer distances with the ball or without the ball.

So why laugh?

Explain yourself or ask me what i mean if it isn't clear.
 
Ekeke said:
Have you actually watched him this past season? Or are you just guessing everything?
Click to expand...

He did say he was fatigued all season. Now tbh I find that hard to believe but he did say it from a very early stage of the season so fair enough. Many people have said he was faster in his days at Boca and Corinthians though.
 
Ekeke said:
If all your guesses are as bad as that, it would explain some of your posts in this thread :lol:
Click to expand...

Go on then surprise me, how old? and where are you from?

It might help things run a bit smoother you see.

I think you will find the majority would like Berbatov and agree with me that pace is not necessary for this particular striker. Don't let me piss on your bonfire though ;)
 
united.7 said:
Go on then surprise me, how old? and where are you from?

It might help things run a bit smoother you see.

I think you will find the majority would like Berbatov and agree with me that pace is not necessary for this particular striker. Don't let me piss on your bonfire though ;)
Click to expand...

Why? Are you racist?

I don't particularly care what most think. What SAF thinks is most important and he tends to go against what is thought here.
 
united.7 said:
So errr Tevez is slow is he?

As i said...

Put him in space and he can run.

Empirical evidence for you feckwit.

Edit: Doesn't even look like he is going full tanker there.
Click to expand...

7 seconds from when he got the ball(at the halfway line) to scoring that goal, which is about doing 100m in 13s. I'm assuming that's good?

Ekeke said:
Why? Are you racist?

I don't particularly care what most think. What SAF thinks is most important and he tends to go against what is thought here.
Click to expand...

:confused: Depends what you want to believe. Are you saying he wants a fast striker?
 
Brwned said:
7 seconds from when he got the ball(at the halfway line) to scoring that goal, which is about doing 100m in 13s. Would that be good or bad?
Click to expand...

He had the ball at his feet for most of the time and it went through Rooney but to get from where he did to score the goal so it isn't bad at all really - there aren't many players keeping up with him.

You can tell he is still going through the gears though.

Don't sit there and say he isn't quick because he is.

I know he has seemed sluggish at times - i just think he is one of those players. Ronaldo has an unbelievable sprint recovery rate, even Rooney looks worn after opening his legs properly - it really isn't that easy.
 
united.7 said:
I didn't say he was reliant on pace...

I believe he does more so than Saha.

Pace, as in change of speed, i remember Saha being quick and being able to lose a marker but it wasn't a prominent part of his game. He was excellent on the ball and was superb at moving the defence around, he would find holes in a defence with intelligent runs not breaks or bursts on the counter, that would be Ronaldo or Rooney. Tevez will use his pace, as in change of speed to beat a man, chase back and evade his marker and under 10m he is as quick as most people, however having tiny legs and fatigue will make it far harder to run longer distances with the ball or without the ball.

So why laugh?

Explain yourself or ask me what i mean if it isn't clear.
Click to expand...

I think Tevez has shown this season pace isn't as big a part of his game than other attributes e.g close control etc. The reason being that his pace isn't that much of a player like Eto'o or Torres so it isn't a big part of his game. If he had pace like the two mentioned then pace would be a big part of his game but he doesn't so it isn't IMO.

As for Saha pace is a big aspect of his game and therefore it is more important to him than it is to Tevez. Face it, if you're better at something it's going to be more important to you.

Saha's pace >>>>> Tevez's so Saha is more reliant on it and Tevez not so much. You're claiming he is more reliant on it than Saha but I disagree as he's hardly shown blistering pace like an Eto'o would and other facets of his game he's relied on more than pace.
 
united.7 said:
He had the ball at his feet for most of the time and it went through Rooney but to get from where he did to score the goal so it isn't bad at all really - there aren't many players keeping up with him.

You can tell he is still going through the gears though.

Don't sit there and say he isn't quick because he is.

I know he has seemed sluggish at times - i just think he is one of those players. Ronaldo has an unbelievable sprint recovery rate, even Rooney looks worn after opening his legs properly - it really isn't that easy.
Click to expand...

He and Berbatov both have unorthodox running styles imo, and they are quicker than they seem. I'm with you, I think he isn't as slow as people are making him out to be.
 
united.7 said:
I agree with myself and yourself.

Thankyou.

Hope you like the video by the way - if only that fecker had stayed injury free.
Click to expand...

Agreed, he was slowly becoming my favourite player in the team from the end of the 05/06 season and I was hoping he could make a big impact this season. That worked out well.:smirk:

And then when it seemed he might be able to be our supersub for the Champions League final he went and got injured again. I lost any faith/sympathy for him from that moment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.