My point was about scoring against ALL of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal like Nani has. He scored against Chelsea and Arsenal in his first season at Spurs so that was no problem. But he hasnt scored against Liverpool (at least in the league, I dont have a list of cup goals) since he came to England. But he did for Leverkusen in 2002. So that completes his set.
Nani
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
My point was about scoring against ALL of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal like Nani has. He scored against Chelsea and Arsenal in his first season at Spurs so that was no problem. But he hasnt scored against Liverpool (at least in the league, I dont have a list of cup goals) since he came to England. But he did for Leverkusen in 2002. So that completes his set.
He has managed to get more games than a 35 year old who has to be used sparingly? What on earth does that prove? I havent seen this list you are basing this on but I dare say he is ahead of some people due to injury or inexplicable form issues, for example Carrick.
Just the sticky on the Manchester United forum
He's technically 7th considering the amount of bench appearances from Owen.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/statistics-09-10-a-263598/
It proves that he's starting plenty of games, one of the critisms that you all seem to have in your head? Which as i'm highlighting, is simply pure bullpoop.
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with the point I made or not.
Just to clarify, Nani has had plenty of opportunities to establish himself as a first-team regular (this season and last) but the reason he's not getting the nod to start in games like the one at Anfield is because he hasn't made the most of these opportunities and forced the manager to pick him for all our big games (a.k.a. "doing a Fletch")
For some reason, this board is infested with people who think Fergie is refusing to play Nani out of a combination of an inability to appreciate how good he really is and/or spite. This is of course, nonsense.
Just the sticky on the Manchester United forum
He's technically 7th considering the amount of bench appearances from Owen.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/statistics-09-10-a-263598/
Interesting. Carrick has played more than I noticed.
Anderson should have played more.
Valencia > Nani (at the moment).
Just the sticky on the Manchester United forum
He's technically 7th considering the amount of bench appearances from Owen.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/statistics-09-10-a-263598/
It proves that he's starting plenty of games, one of the critisms that you all seem to have in your head? Which as i'm highlighting, is simply pure bullpoop.
Starting the 7th highest amount of games in the squad - when the only competion on the left wing this season is a 35 year old and a constantly injured Korean - is by no means a ringing endorsement and explains why he didn't start our biggest game of the season.
I also find it hard to imagine why posters would have that kind of an agenda, to want Nani to fail. What motivation could we have to refuse to accept one of our players is in fact really really good? It doesnt make sense. This is not a witch hunt. It isnt a conspiracy. If people say a United player is shit, it is likely to be because they think he is shit. If he is a Liverpool player, of course, then the chances of objectivity are significantly reduced....
I wouldn't have started Nani either against Liverpool. Due to the overly attacking lineup already on show, including Nani would have been overkill.
But the argument Mr.Legend16 is trying to say is that Nani hasn't been given games this season, due to his form. Which as proved by those stats, is darn not true guv.
Pogue, that 35 year old has 8 assists and has been our most inform player. Why the hell would you drop him for our biggest game of the season? You naturally wouldn't would you! I know you fellas don't like Nani but feck sake lads.
Ryan Giggs is the reason Nani plays less games than he might. He's been brilliant this season on the left.
People then suggest that we play Nani on the right instead, but SAF seems to dislike that idea. Perhaps the reason is that Sir Alex doesnt expect Giggs to be playing like that on the wing for more than the rest of this season and so he wants Nani to continue getting to grips with the left wing position so that he can improve there and take over when inevitably Giggs' form dips.
He bought Valencia specifically for the right wing and theres no reason to think he wont give him, like most of his new signings that go straight into the team, an extended bedding in period regardless of whether he's playing brilliantly or just alright.
People then suggest that we play Nani on the right instead, but SAF seems to dislike that idea. Perhaps the reason is that Sir Alex doesnt expect Giggs to be playing like that on the wing for more than the rest of this season and so he wants Nani to continue getting to grips with the left wing position so that he can improve there and take over when inevitably Giggs' form dips.
He bought Valencia specifically for the right wing and theres no reason to think he wont give him, like most of his new signings that go straight into the team, an extended bedding in period regardless of whether he's playing brilliantly or just alright.
Pogue, that 35 year old has 8 assists and has been our most inform player. Why the hell would you drop him for our biggest game of the season? You naturally wouldn't would you! I know you fellas don't like Nani but feck sake lads.
You've missed the point. SAF could have played Nani and Giggs, you know. I hear he can actually kick a ball with his right foot.
The point remains, if he was making more of his opportunities he would be starting more games than he has done.
He can't play football either, right?
He's got great technique.
Bollocks Pogue.
Of course he's a cautious manager when it merits it (see Park last year) and infact his over eagerness to attack Liverpool cost us.
The argument was Nani wasn't getting starts this season when clearly he is
Well i've enjoyed this debate, but unfortunatly it's past 4, so time to clear out.
So has my missus. But she is shit at football.
Pains me as I thought we had a potential world beater when we signed him but he's had his chances and he is just not going to realise the potential- or even stay the same,the lad's getting worse by the game.
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Legend16
thats a girls name where I come from. I assume you mean naive. maybe not.
I'm always amused at the ones who resort to calling the other person stubborn while refusing to budge from their own soapbox. oh the contradiction! you might take a moment to consider your own viewpoint in the context of my criticism of Nani. one in which I acknowledge the lad has talent and hope he can make it but am increasingly convinced he will not.
and all I have been hearing from you is a one sided condemnation of anything that is not your point of view. so if there were questions in there maybe use question marks in future so I can pick em out answer them for ye. I am not going into comparing nani with other players again as it confuses the argument. judge him on his own merits[/QUOTE]
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again one man up ship. Mate i'm dyslexic but that's really not the point here is it? But if it makes you feel better...
Soapbox? I've never said you were wrong. Find where I said 100% your wrong and you win! The fact is I didn't, but I recognize there could be a multiude of reasons why nani hasn't played each and every game....
which is why it's natural to say, 'wait a second' - don't jump to conclusions just because you THINK you know the score. THINKING ain't KNOWING. In any language.
What makes you increasingly convinced? He's played in ALOT more games this season then at this stage last season....I also don't see anywhere Sir Alex critisizing nani..
ye? wtf is ye?
Let's be honest - it was first of all a strange time for you - after this defeat to liverpool to add the points you made bearing in mind he didn't start
You jumped to a conclusion and you can tell no one why we did not start nani with 100% assurance....you just cannot.
Legend16
thats a girls name where I come from. I assume you mean naive. maybe not.
I'm always amused at the ones who resort to calling the other person stubborn while refusing to budge from their own soapbox. oh the contradiction! you might take a moment to consider your own viewpoint in the context of my criticism of Nani. one in which I acknowledge the lad has talent and hope he can make it but am increasingly convinced he will not.
and all I have been hearing from you is a one sided condemnation of anything that is not your point of view. so if there were questions in there maybe use question marks in future so I can pick em out answer them for ye. I am not going into comparing nani with other players again as it confuses the argument. judge him on his own merits[/QUOTE]
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again one man up ship. Mate i'm dyslexic but that's really not the point here is it? But if it makes you feel better...
Soapbox? I've never said you were wrong. Find where I said 100% your wrong and you win! The fact is I didn't, but I recognize there could be a multiude of reasons why nani hasn't played each and every game....
which is why it's natural to say, 'wait a second' - don't jump to conclusions just because you THINK you know the score. THINKING ain't KNOWING. In any language.
What makes you increasingly convinced? He's played in ALOT more games this season then at this stage last season....I also don't see anywhere Sir Alex critisizing nani..
ye? wtf is ye?
Let's be honest - it was first of all a strange time for you - after this defeat to liverpool to add the points you made bearing in mind he didn't start
You jumped to a conclusion and you can tell no one why we did not start nani with 100% assurance....you just cannot.
Uhh Valencia has been in proper form scoring about 5 goals recently... why would Fergie drop him to accomodate Nani on the right? If i wasn't mistaken Valencia was on the bench for a fair few occasions at the start of the season. He has hit great form so credit to him... he deserves to start right now. But just because Nani doesn't start a lot of games doesn't make him rubbish. Anderson has constantly made way for Carrick/Fletcher/Scholes, does that mean he should move on??
some posters on here are taking this Nani criticism way too personally. can never understand the notion that all united players are brilliant and the best in the world forever. agree or you are a terrible supporter with an agenda to see failure at the club. dear me
listening to yourself? the fact you're still here means your in that category. Ie taking it too personally..
To distance yourself is pathetic and to not see the irony is blindness.
You make a point, like many who witch hunt and you simply cannot back yourself up. If you make an opinion, fine but you have to be prepared to show your actually not talking bollocks
again one man up ship. Mate i'm dyslexic but that's really not the point here is it? But if it makes you feel better...
Soapbox? I've never said you were wrong. Find where I said 100% your wrong and you win! The fact is I didn't, but I recognize there could be a multiude of reasons why nani hasn't played each and every game....
What makes you increasingly convinced? He's played in ALOT more games this season then at this stage last season....I also don't see anywhere Sir Alex critisizing nani..
ye? wtf is ye?
Let's be honest - it was first of all a strange time for you - after this defeat to liverpool to add the points you made bearing in mind he didn't start
You jumped to a conclusion and you can tell no one why we did not start nani with 100% assurance....you just cannot.[/QUOTE]
oh for feck sake grow up. its a joke and if you read it properly you will see its at my own expense
and you cant tell me why he is not picked regularly enough to show he is a top player at our club. its all about opinion you see. not about pretending to know the inside workings of the club.
this thread has been running for ages. it was bumped today. so I contributed. no agenda. just is what it is. I've been at pains to leave nanis contribution yesterday out of it. so should you
Soapbox? I've never said you were wrong. Find where I said 100% your wrong and you win! The fact is I didn't, but I recognize there could be a multiude of reasons why nani hasn't played each and every game....
What makes you increasingly convinced? He's played in ALOT more games this season then at this stage last season....I also don't see anywhere Sir Alex critisizing nani..
ye? wtf is ye?
Let's be honest - it was first of all a strange time for you - after this defeat to liverpool to add the points you made bearing in mind he didn't start
You jumped to a conclusion and you can tell no one why we did not start nani with 100% assurance....you just cannot.[/QUOTE]
oh for feck sake grow up. its a joke and if you read it properly you will see its at my own expense
and you cant tell me why he is not picked regularly enough to show he is a top player at our club. its all about opinion you see. not about pretending to know the inside workings of the club.
this thread has been running for ages. it was bumped today. so I contributed. no agenda. just is what it is. I've been at pains to leave nanis contribution yesterday out of it. so should you
seriously legend, why are all your responces messed up now? Something ain't right on your side as the responce boxes ain't coming up properly. So ends the discussion as i'm off to buy a ps3
Remember legend16, you would much rather be wrong for while you might feel ashamed of yourself and we'd rub it in, United would benefit..wouldn't it
Remember legend16, you would much rather be wrong for while you might feel ashamed of yourself and we'd rub it in, United would benefit..wouldn't it
I was about to ask you the same thing
ah back to normal
This.
listening to yourself? the fact you're still here means your in that category. Ie taking it too personally..
To distance yourself is pathetic and to not see the irony is blindness.
You make a point, like many who witch hunt and you simply cannot back yourself up. If you make an opinion, fine but you have to be prepared to show your actually not talking bollocks
are you talking to me or giving yourself a pep talk
listening to yourself? the fact you're still here means your in that category. Ie taking it too personally..
To distance yourself is pathetic and to not see the irony is blindness.
You make a point, like many who witch hunt and you simply cannot back yourself up If you make an opinion, fine but you have to be prepared to show your actually not talking bollocks.
To be honest, you coudl be describing yourself right there. You basically defend every single player at the club, without allowing anyone to describe them in anything other than glowing terms. It's Tosic one week, Nani the next.
It's a bit rich for you to accuse others of carrying out a "witch hunt" by simply offering their opinion on a player when you do the exact opposite without any more compelling evidence to back your own opinion up.
Mate we know how highly you rate richard dunn and that gibson should be selected over anderson so I guess the point is, at some point - we're all guilty...are we not?
It is far easier to slate players then to try to understand they can improve and you hope they do. While he's a god damn united player, he gets my backing.....
Being positive about players, ain't witch hunting and shouldn't really be classed as similar as it's just 'supporting' and incidently you've named two players I could add dong and possebon, king and maybe one or two others - we've over 100 players young and old at the club at all levels...
I don't think i'm alone in being confused at the timing of it and it wasn't just him. It just seemed strange. Everyones opinion is important. We'll fight, but that's the passion of supporting. It ain't plain sailing.
right roast chicken dinner in my mums coming my way. be back on here later to see whats being said.
I like this part. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism where its justified. Every player should get it from time to time because it highlights the areas they can continually improve in. Potential is there to be nurtured and encouraged wherever you see it. But its the people who have nothing good to say and look for the worst at every opportunity that annoy me.
poor lad was our best player in moscow, and gets dropped for the scouse match, in which he came on and did better than most others on the pitch in his short spell.
How can we expect him to get better if we dont give him a consistant run of games. May as well sell him to a club which allows him to develop.
How can we expect him to get better if we dont give him a consistant run of games. May as well sell him to a club which allows him to develop.
I don't even begin to understand what you're talking about in that post.
We've over 100 players at the club? Good. Are all of them going to make it at United? No. Are we allowed to express opinions about which of those players we think will and won't succeed? According to you, it seems not.
Eh? How'd you work that out?
As for that "consistent run of games", don't you think the onus is on the player himself to play well enough to start more games?
Jesus, why does this point have to be repeated so often?
Also, keep up HsJ. The case for the defence (of Nani) has been going on about how he is 7th in the squad for appearances. So he IS getting the games.
It's a clear witch hunt. Some people are fecking weird. 'ohh look at me i got a problem with some player'.
An opinion is fine, is it not? The problem arsies when you cannot back it up....when you refuse to inspite of being asked time and time again..(legend16).
When people refuse...then it's because they don't have an answer and just want to be negative for no reason about a player....
Now if you have an opinion fine bring it forward and i'll have no problem debating with you on nani. If you do have an opinion?..
Definitely.
No, the decision rests on the manager on who he feels is the right player for the right situation.
yeah whatever doctor. Are you in surgery right now? Multitasking?
Some people are just spoilt and lack paitence.
Looking at Nani's United career as a whole, has he failed to get the "consistent run of games" everyone thinks he needs because:
a) He hasn't played well enough, in training or in competitive games
b) Because the manager tries to pick the right player for the right situation
It goes without saying that SAF will rotate his team but if anyone thinks Nani's relatively restricted opportunities over the last 3 seasons reflect nothing more than the usual squad rotation then they're out of their fecking mind. IMHO.