A people's Revolution

holyland red said:
I hope you're right. More so, I hope a new democratic regime if one arises in Egypt will be able to maintain stability. MUbarak was quite brutal in his control of the brotherhood- democracies seldom use those measures.

Edit:
Just fount this:
2010-muslim-01-03.png

Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Global Attitudes Project

Not sure what's the reputation of the Pew Research Center, but taking these figures at face value the brotherhood could be quite influential in the post-Mubarak era.
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They could be. But I really doubt it. Going alone by how a moslem country approves of Islam in politics isn't the best way to judge there possible influence to be fair.

Even they seem to know it IMO that the aren't influential enough to Islamise Egypt in the conservative way they might like .That is why they don't see why they should get overly involved in the current process by fronting a possible candidate as a future president. I feel they are most interested however in garnering a significant number seats in the parliament. Then will try to build influence from there.
 
Fearless said:
Your naivety is astonishing.

And those in the shadows are banking on it.
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So we should give in to the fear mongering?

The Army are an institution in Egypt, and will make sure things never get too out of hand, similar to what is happening in Turkey. You as an Israeli/Jew will push your interests(as is your right), but for once I don't think your interests should be the most important factor here.

The world has changed since the Ayatollah took over in Iran. Egypt is not the same country, and the world is not the same place....

So the new govt might not be as 'friendly' to Israel or the West as Mubarak, but that doesn't mean they'll start smuggling arms to Hamas, or mess about around the border.
 
BTV_is_neutral said:
So we should give in to the fear mongering?

The Army are an institution in Egypt, and will make sure things never get too out of hand, similar to what is happening in Turkey. You as an Israeli/Jew will push your interests(as is your right), but for once I don't think your interests should be the most important factor here.

The world has changed since the Ayatollah took over in Iran. Egypt is not the same country, and the world is not the same place....

So the new govt might not be as 'friendly' to Israel or the West as Mubarak, but that doesn't mean they'll start smuggling arms to Hamas, or mess about around the border.
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Wishful thinking at best.

There is no Ghandi in the wings and any vacuum in the middle east will always get filled by bigger, badder nutters.
 
Men with beards. Women in Niqab all raising signs that say " Long Live Crescent with the Cross"
 
Avatar said:
Men with beards. Women in Niqab all raising signs that say " Long Live Crescent with the Cross"
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Shhh don't be telling us that! We're supposed to think the protests are a guise to set up an Islamic Republic of Egypt.
 
Mubarak is winning i think.. Dividing Egyptians and stalemate is in his favor
 
BTV_is_neutral said:
So the new govt might not be as 'friendly' to Israel or the West as Mubarak, but that doesn't mean they'll start smuggling arms to Hamas, or mess about around the border.
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You are underestimating the potential danger of the a new Egyptian regime turning a blind eye to Islamic fundamentalist activities in Sinai. They don't have to be actively involved, but AQ has identified Sinai as a possible frontline with Israel, and Hamas has already used the long Israeli-Egyptian border for attacking Israeli civilians.

Israel can tolerate this to an extent, but an indiffernt Egyptian regime could contribute to escalation that could get out of control.
 
I hate to say it but it doesn't look like a peaceful protest would work here.

The people need to be more militant, in essence they need a Storming of the Bastille moment. They were close to doing such a thing last Friday when they started to attack government institutions, they need to carry that up now. I don't really think going to Tahrir everyday in huge numbers is working with a such defiant tyrant in power.

If he's not going to leave, then FORCE the fecker out. He says he wants to die in Egypt, grant him that wish.
 
RedKaos said:
I hate to say it but it doesn't look like a peaceful protest would work here.

The people need to be more militant, in essence they need a Storming of the Bastille moment. They were close to doing such a thing last Friday when they started to attack government institutions, they need to carry that up now. I don't really think going to Tahrir everyday in huge numbers is working with a such defiant tyrant in power.

If he's not going to leave, then FORCE the fecker out. He says he wants to die in Egypt, grant him that wish.
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Would that not just result in the deaths of thousands of people?
 
holyland red said:
You are underestimating the potential danger of the a new Egyptian regime turning a blind eye to Islamic fundamentalist activities in Sinai. They don't have to be actively involved, but AQ has identified Sinai as a possible frontline with Israel, and Hamas has already used the long Israeli-Egyptian border for attacking Israeli civilians.

Israel can tolerate this to an extent, but an indiffernt Egyptian regime could contribute to escalation that could get out of control.
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Would they be indifferent though? I'm not saying they couldn't be...but would they be....

After all the Army loves the perks it enjoys because of the friendly relationship with the US, would it be willing to sacrifice that? Billions of $$$$, nice modern weaponry(obviously not as good as the ones Israel gets ;) ).

Sure a civilian govt, with a Muslim Brotherhood presence(say even in the Kingmaker role) might want to turn a blind eye, but would the Army tolerate such actions, actions that would hurt its funding streams?
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Would that not just result in the deaths of thousands of people?
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Worst case scenario is that the army will retaliate in a brutal manner, yes. But my gut feeling is that the masses that make up the armed forces would be reluctant to retaliate.

We have to remember that Mubarak clearly isnt a Ben Ali or Reza Pahlavi, the man would rather kill off his entire population than leave his throne. So clearly pacifism isn't going to work with him, and while the risks may be grave, it'll be a risk the Egyptians might have to consider enduring if they wish to cleanse Egypt of him and his tyrannous legacy.
 
RedKaos said:
Worst case scenario is that the army will retaliate in a brutal manner, yes. But my gut feeling is that the masses that make up the armed forces would be reluctant to retaliate.

We have to remember that Mubarak clearly isnt a Ben Ali or Reza Pahlavi, the man would rather kill off his entire population than leave his throne. So clearly pacifism isn't going to work with him, and while the risks may be grave, it'll be a risk the Egyptians might have to consider enduring if they wish to cleanse Egypt of him and his tyrannous legacy.
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Yeah, like Saddam then. :nervous:
 
:lol:

The thing about Saddam was that Iraqis took that risk and came very close in 1991, were it not for the US deciding they didn't fancy a pro-Iran Iraq and hence giving him his airspace back to crush the rebellion.

You also have to remember that unlike Mubarak, Saddam genuinely had a large support base within his own country, and was revered by many throughout the Arab world. The vast majority of Egyptians however are united in their desire to rid their country of Mubarak and implement democracy.
 
BTV_is_neutral said:
Would they be indifferent though? I'm not saying they couldn't be...but would they be....

After all the Army loves the perks it enjoys because of the friendly relationship with the US, would it be willing to sacrifice that? Billions of $$$$, nice modern weaponry(obviously not as good as the ones Israel gets ;) ).

Sure a civilian govt, with a Muslim Brotherhood presence(say even in the Kingmaker role) might want to turn a blind eye, but would the Army tolerate such actions, actions that would hurt its funding streams?
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I'm not sure why a model in which the army doesn't take orders from an elected government is being suggested. It doesn't even work this way in Turkey anymore.
 
US continues to amp up the pressure publicly, saying steps taken so far are not good enough. Clear, Concrete and Visible steps need to be taken, otherwise it expects protests to continue.

David Cameron a lot more blunt, the tide is unstoppable was what he said.

holyland red said:
I'm not sure why a model in which the army doesn't take orders from an elected government is being suggested. It doesn't even work this way in Turkey anymore.
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Hmmm true enough.

All I know is, Mubarak hasn't played this game very well at all....really miscalculated the situation, and took away any hope his son had of being a successor. Poor guy :lol::lol::lol:
 
How well this will work out with (if that is what'll happen) Mubarak still in power could depend a lot on how much "leeway"? he's given, both from outside and from within Egypt. How will the situation be overseen or monitored.. One could imagine all kinds of horror scenarios developing from this
 
I've been hearing on various interviews that the US are assholes for not doing more to push Mubarak outand the US will be assholes if they do anything to force Mubarak out.

Good to be us. :lol:
 
Sir Matt said:
I've been hearing on various interviews that the US are assholes for not doing more to push Mubarak outand the US will be assholes if they do anything to force Mubarak out.

Good to be us. :lol:
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Joys of being a Super Power and micro managing countries...you can't please everyone, oh well...
 
Surreal media campaign based on lies and fabrications on State TV , Radio and Mehwar Tv. Unbelievable amount of lies broadcasted there. They are inciting the average citizen against the protesters and many are believing them or more appropriately wanting to believe them because they want to get back to work and normal life .I am starting even to feel scared from people in my neighborhood who knows that I go to the protests. They are dividing us :(
 
People should probably realize there are more important things than getting back to your everyday life in this situation. I can understand middle-aged and older people wanting to keep their daily routine, but when the future of the country and ultimately freedom is at stake, I think they should worry about more than the fact they can't get their favorite food from the shop on the corner.
 
Avatar said:
Surreal media campaign based on lies and fabrications on State TV , Radio and Mehwar Tv. Unbelievable amount of lies broadcasted there. They are inciting the average citizen against the protesters and many are believing them or more appropriately wanting to believe them because they want to get back to work and normal life .I am starting even to feel scared from people in my neighborhood who knows that I go to the protests. They are dividing us :(
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:(
 
Sir Matt said:
People should probably realize there are more important things than getting back to your everyday life in this situation. I can understand middle-aged and older people wanting to keep their daily routine, but when the future of the country and ultimately freedom is at stake, I think they should worry about more than the fact they can't get their favorite food from the shop on the corner.
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Millions already know that and go into the streets. Revolutions need just these or even less to succeed. Why aren't we ?!! :(
 
Avatar said:
Millions already know that and go into the streets. Revolutions need just these or even less to succeed. Why aren't we ?!! :(
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In most countries with such entrenched regimes, revolutions are much more violent than the current attempt in Egypt. I guess ousting Marcos would be slightly similar in terms of country population and having a long-serving leader.

Ultimately, it depends less on Mubarak than on the military, Sulaimon, and a few others who would be able to stage a coup. The problem with that is that they probably don't want to forcibly remove Mubarak.
 
I hope the momentum isn't being lost. The international community seems to be firmly behind the protesters now, I can't imagine there's much chance of Mubarak staying too much longer.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I hope the momentum isn't being lost. The international community seems to be firmly behind the protesters now, I can't imagine there's much chance of Mubarak staying too much longer.
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Avatar looks to be losing hope, not sure why? Surely you didn't expect a man with a grip on power for 30 years to roll over just because there are protests, peaceful ones at that for a week and a bit?

When you get the civil servants to join you, so that the day to day running of the state becomes an issue, then you'll be really making some noise.

Public transport
mailmen
water supply
electricity
sanitation
local govt staff

etc etc....
 
I read on Reuters, the Guardian, and BBC that there were protests across Egypt in smaller cities, but I don't remember reading how large they are exactly. Outside of Cairo, do you know what the protests are like?

Hopefully, the military, government, and the opposition are trying to figure out how best to move forward behind the scenes and can make a decision before the protests lose momentum. It seems like Mubarak is playing chicken with the people, betting that he can hold out longer.
 
Am not losing hope, but my optimism/pessimism meter has been going to and fro these past couple of days mainly 'cause I realized that Solaiman and the army are with Mubarak.. Also they are arresting activists and journalists which is worrying. Nothing changed, emergency law back

People are still upbeat. Millions marched today in many different cities. In fact Alexandria may have had more people protesting today than Tahrir

The most worrying thing for me is the division that I'm seeing within the Egyptian people. Many are not into politics at all because of the stagnation over the years..so now although they were damn happy last Friday, they are worried about the security and stability of the country and are telling us to stop..sometimes angrily
 
DEVELOPING: A failed assassination attempt on Egypt's vice president in recent days left two of his bodyguards dead, U.S. sources tell Fox News, though that information has yet to be confirmed on the ground in Cairo.

Such an attempt on the life of Omar Suleiman would mark an alarming turn in the uprising against the government of President Hosni Mubarak, who only recently named Suleiman as vice president in an effort to quell the unrest and possibly line up a successor.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs declined to address the assassination reports when asked by Fox News.
"I'm not going to ... get into that question," Gibbs said.
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FoxNews.com - Egypt VP Targeted in Assassination Attempt That Killed Two Bodyguards, Sources Tell Fox News
 
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