A people's Revolution

RedKaos said:
He's not far off though - US policy here has always been determined what's best for Israel, not what's best for the Egyptian people. If they genuinely did care about the latter then they would have asked Mubarak to step down in the beginning of these protests.

Let's be honest - The Israelis would be delighted if Omar Suleiman were to become president, whereas the Egyptians despise the man as much as they despise Mubarak. Now remind me, who did the yanks back to inherit power?
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Funny you never invited Yank support for who was better for Syrian people, or the Iranian people for that matter. The Yanks don't care about anyone but their own interests.

Israel would welcome stability in Egypt, be it with Mubarak, Suleiman or the great Pharaoh ruling. It's true that Israel's own interests outweigh here the political freedom of the Egyptian population, but what would you expect from a country whose security would be significantly threatened by unrest in Egypt? The US also worry about the possible radicalization in Egypt, as I believe do most people in Europe (lip service aside).

Bob thinks it's all a Zionist plot though. Do you? Earlier in the thread you claimed you didn't believe this existed.
 
I don't understand, why would it not be be in Israel's interest to support democratic governments in the ME (if this is what is being implied)?
 
Mihajlovic said:
I don't understand, why would it not be be in Israel's interest to support democratic regimes in the ME (if this is what is being implied)?
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I guess because Jews control the world they have to approve political change in the Arab world first. It's a procedural issue (if I understand Bob's input correctly here).
 
Mihajlovic said:
I don't understand, why would it not be be in Israel's interest to support democratic governments in the ME (if this is what is being implied)?
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Because democratic governments reflect the will of the people, and in most cases the people of the Middle East do not particularly have favourable views towards Israel. The people of Egypt for example don't particularly like Israel, that's not to say they wish to go to war with them but they certainly might not wish to continue being in the peace treaty, nor will they feel comfortable continuing to lock the Gazans in their giant prison.

As I've just mentioned the Palestinian issue is another. Egypt borders the Gaza strip and almost all Egyptians are outraged at the treatment of their Palestinian brothers, hence a democratic Egypt will most likely join the consensus that demands Israel returns to its pre-67 borders, and will be further campaigning for Palestinian statehood.

The other issue I'd imagine is Iran. The vast majority of Arabs in the ME do not see Iran as a threat and in fact almost all of them put Iran third behind the US and Israel in who they regard as a threat to peace - more than half of them are actually supportive of Iran's nuclear programme. So its safe to say a democratic Egypt will most likely refrain from its sanctions on Iran, unlike US scrooge Mubarak.

I've left out US objections to Egyptian independence, but the points I've mentioned so far should explain why Israel is so supportive of Mubarak and his no.2 Suleiman, democracy would be a huge threat to that status quo.
 
RedKaos said:
that's not to say they wish to go to war with them but they certainly might not wish to continue being in the peace treaty, nor will they feel comfortable continuing to lock the Gazans in their giant prison.
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Are you suggesting that that they'll walk out on the agreement that saw Israel return the Sinai peninsula to Egypt, yet they don't want to go to war? I hope the Egyptian people prove to be sharper than you are. It's possible that the Yanks don't give them this credit though.

To the best of my knowledge, the Egyptian people did not campaign for Palestinian statehood when they controlled the GS between 1948-1967. And Mubarak wasn't in charge too. So much for their support of their "Palestinian brothers".
 
RedKaos said:
Because democratic governments reflect the will of the people, and in most cases the people of the Middle East do not particularly have favourable views towards Israel. The people of Egypt for example don't particularly like Israel, that's not to say they wish to go to war with them but they certainly might not wish to continue being in the peace treaty, nor will they feel comfortable continuing to lock the Gazans in their giant prison.

As I've just mentioned the Palestinian issue is another. Egypt borders the Gaza strip and almost all Egyptians are outraged at the treatment of their Palestinian brothers, hence a democratic Egypt will most likely join the consensus that demands Israel returns to its pre-67 borders, and will be further campaigning for Palestinian statehood.

The other issue I'd imagine is Iran. The vast majority of Arabs in the ME do not see Iran as a threat and in fact almost all of them put Iran third behind the US and Israel in who they regard as a threat to peace - more than half of them are actually supportive of Iran's nuclear programme. So its safe to say a democratic Egypt will most likely refrain from its sanctions on Iran, unlike US scrooge Mubarak.

I've left out US objections to Egyptian independence, but the points I've mentioned so far should explain why Israel is so supportive of Mubarak and his no.2 Suleiman, democracy would be a huge threat to that status quo.
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Unless Egypt agrees to readjust its borders and grant the Gazans some additional 20-30 km coastline which would probably be of great benefit for the today's overcrowded territory. I mean this way the Egyptians would really demonstrate that they care for the Palestinians, imo. A new Egyptian government could then obviously act as a kind of 'mediator' between Israel and the Hamas, especially if the MB has really become that moderate (as the media is presenting it). Although I dont really know how much influence the Brotherhood currently has on Hamas.

But as for a democratic Egypt- I'd like to think that it comes with a politically stable government, drawing investments, creating jobs, improving the living standards, and inevitably 'secularizing' the society. I doubt that in such a potentially progressive economic environment there would be much thought or interest for 'disliking Israel' or support for any other form of radical policy towards its neighbour. Consider also the trading possibilities between those two countries.
 
holyland red said:
Funny you never invited Yank support for who was better for Syrian people, or the Iranian people for that matter. The Yanks don't care about anyone but their own interests.

Israel would welcome stability in Egypt, be it with Mubarak, Suleiman or the great Pharaoh ruling. It's true that Israel's own interests outweigh here the political freedom of the Egyptian population, but what would you expect from a country whose security would be significantly threatened by unrest in Egypt? The US also worry about the possible radicalization in Egypt, as I believe do most people in Europe (lip service aside).

Bob thinks it's all a Zionist plot though. Do you? Earlier in the thread you claimed you didn't believe this existed.
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:lol: Zionist plot... you're joking right?!

We ~through the world media~ are not seeing much of Benjamin Netanyahu but I'm sure he is working his ass off to figure out how to shore up the borders. As he should... I heard he's moved up the Israeli draft, now March. (As he should take preventative measures)

If Netanyahu isn't plotting like a madman, he wouldn't be doing his job. And stop trying to make me out to be some anti-zionist... I could give two-shits as to whether the jews keep there land or not. I only jump in when there are human rights issues involved.

Funny how in the same post, you are saying exactly what I am saying.

'It's true that Israel's own interest outweigh...' ~ as anyone would expect.


If the Palestinians sneeze, the Israeli army sends in tanks to blow up neighborhoods (not anti-zionist, simple fact of history). Now, that HLR weighs in on this so heavily, ... am I the only person that would like to hear from the Israeli govt. on what's going on in the region.

... all of the USA jockeying around 'for the sake of stability' on this issue is about the government's interest in oil... more so than some zionist plot, I would think


PS. RedKaos, if you ever need assistance on a thread about Bashar al-Assad or Ahmadinejad... feel free to call on me. I'm all for the freedom of the syrian and iranian people, as well.
 
Omar Soliman will turn the country from being a Police state to being an Intelligence state

feck !!
 
holyland red said:
Are you suggesting that that they'll walk out on the agreement that saw Israel return the Sinai peninsula to Egypt, yet they don't want to go to war? I hope the Egyptian people prove to be sharper than you are. It's possible that the Yanks don't give them this credit though.

To the best of my knowledge, the Egyptian people did not campaign for Palestinian statehood when they controlled the GS between 1948-1967. And Mubarak wasn't in charge too. So much for their support of their "Palestinian brothers".
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You've ignored my other points so I take it were in agreement that Israel prefers for Egypt to be undemocratic.

As for that straw you've clutched to, the peace treaty is just a piece of paper. I wouldn't expect Egyptians would favour having an Israeli embassy from most the ones I've spoken to.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
PS. RedKaos, if you ever need assistance on a thread about Bashar al-Assad or Ahmadinejad... feel free to call on me. I'm all for the freedom of the syrian and iranian people, as well.
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Absolutely, I'm all for democracy regardless of whatever country it is. It's just a shame the US doesn't stay consistent in its demands for democracy in Egypt, just as they have in Syria and Iran.
 
Avatar said:
Omar Soliman will turn the country from being a Police state to being an Intelligence state

feck !!
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This is exactly what I've been saying... Captain Rendition Suleiman knows but one way to deal with things. Leopards do not change their spots.


Just to touch on HLR's paranoia for one last time... My concerns about how this situation is handled is legitimate in that 9.11 had been the result of decades of badly handled relations be the USA and the Middle-Eastern nations. At the very least the use of the USA's fiddling with middle-eastern governments had been enough to motivate nut-jobs to climb into airliners and fly them into tall buildings killing thousands.



So, how the USA handles this is critical to our national security. I am interested in Israel's perspective and/or intentions because the USA policy is to militarily arm the Jewish State. We in the USA have every right to be worried about how the radical trigger happy Mossad and Netanyahu intend to react to the current conditions. Osama Bin Laden has shown the international community they are able to exact retribution on anyone anywhere in the world. So, as long as gun shells marked with 'Made in the USA' are leaving my borders... I will be concerned.


This is not to say that I don't care about the Jewish people... I do... this is why I didn't want Netanyahu to be voted in again. For the sake of cooler heads and a more diplomatic Israel, I had hoped for Tzipi Livni to become prime minister.


As, too, I care for the human rights of the Egyptian people... they do not... nobody deserves to ruled by a viscous monster like Mubarak or Suleiman.


Sorry, Avatar... this is mostly aim towards HLR. Hope you're having a better day today...
 
RedKaos said:
Absolutely, I'm all for democracy regardless of whatever country it is. It's just a shame the US doesn't stay consistent in its demands for democracy in Egypt, just as they have in Syria and Iran.
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I, agree, with you 100%... the United States government has a horrendous track record of using middle-eastern nations like a $2 whore. Noam Chomsky details the history in several of his books.


This might be why Hillary Clinton is back-tracking (at least on the surface of things), by saying that the entire region needs to listen to their people and embrace systemic reforms. The Middle-Eastern people seem to be tired of being stuck in the 17th Century. Who could blame them?


This is why I am hoping and praying that things turn for the better in Egypt, maybe ... just maybe things will work out ok. Maybe democracy in Egypt will be the envy of that region and everyone will want to follow. Come to think of it... I'm sure it is making the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia nervous to some degree as well.


I made the mistake of watching some Fox News today and ... there was an American think-tank pundit saying the democracy that will be for the Egyptian people will not be like what we see in America for years, if not decades. ... And here is where the intentions are created for US policy... it worries me.

I see that rushing into things could mess it up... but decades says the puppet masters are not willing to let go of the strings. And it's probably because of 'Oil'. The US national interest are at stake... they are moving way too slow to move our country away from fossil fuels, it's just too profitable.


I don't 'always' agree with NY Times reporter Thomas Friedman, but his most recent interview on Charlie Rose is a good one.

​



... the only criticism is Friedman doesn't talk about the US relationship with the Egyptian military.
 
holyland red said:
Funny you never invited Yank support for who was better for Syrian people, or the Iranian people for that matter. The Yanks don't care about anyone but their own interests.
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As I've said, I support any country in their struggle for democracy, social justice and human rights. I'm just outlining the hypocrisy of the US and other powers here - the policy tends to be that democracy is only acceptable if we deliver it via our M11 Abrams, or if our man will definitely win.

holyland red said:
Israel would welcome stability in Egypt, be it with Mubarak, Suleiman or the great Pharaoh ruling. It's true that Israel's own interests outweigh here the political freedom of the Egyptian population, but what would you expect from a country whose security would be significantly threatened by unrest in Egypt? The US also worry about the possible radicalization in Egypt, as I believe do most people in Europe (lip service aside).
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Islamic radicalisation has never been the issue. The US are allies with the most radical Islamic nation on earth, and history has shown it to support Islamic radicals who were combating secular Arab movements. Noam Chomsky sums it up perfectly here:

It's not radical Islam that worries the US

holyland red said:
Bob thinks it's all a Zionist plot though. Do you? Earlier in the thread you claimed you didn't believe this existed.
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I don't believe its a Zionist plot no. A CIA plot - possibly, at most the Mossad might be involved in tipping the boat in Mubarak's favour but nothing more than that. To simply say that Israeli interests determine US policy is like saying the tail wags the dog, the US wants whats best for Israel because it correlates with it's own hegemony in the region.
 
RedKaos said:
Absolutely, I'm all for democracy regardless of whatever country it is. It's just a shame the US doesn't stay consistent in its demands for democracy in Egypt, just as they have in Syria and Iran.
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I'm not sure the US ever really demanded democracy in Syria. I don't think Israel would want to see that anytime soon, as neither would you.

I also recall that abter GWB daft campaign to force democracy on the Arab world Obama followed by insisting the US will not intervene with the way Arab states are governed (Cairo speech). Back then you could here the clapping all the way to Jerusalem.
 
RedKaos said:
You've ignored my other points so I take it were in agreement that Israel prefers for Egypt to be undemocratic.

As for that straw you've clutched to, the peace treaty is just a piece of paper. I wouldn't expect Egyptians would favour having an Israeli embassy from most the ones I've spoken to.
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Israel doesn't give two shits if Egyptian get to elect their representatives as long as Egypt honour its political agreements. Egypt could be anti-Israel whether its a democracy or still a dictatorship.

You'll find the Egypt-Israeli peace treaty more than a piece of paper. Egypt has no further territorial demands from Israel, and agreed to complete demilitarization of Sinai. A possible result of retracting the agreement could see both a regional war and and end for any hope for peace for a generation in which case even human-rights Bob would struggle to blame Israel.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
This is not to say that I don't care about the Jewish people... I do... this is why I didn't want Netanyahu to be voted in again. For the sake of cooler heads and a more diplomatic Israel, I had hoped for Tzipi Livni to become prime minister.
...
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:lol:

You mean the Tzipi Livni that can't visit the UK because she could find herself arrested for suspected war crimes? Livni was a member of Olmert's cabinet during the 2006 Lebanon war and operation Cast Lead in Gaza. You went ape shit yourself during both, remember? When did Netanyahu last go to war?
 
holyland red said:
Israel doesn't give two shits if Egyptian get to elect their representatives as long as Egypt honour its political agreements. Egypt could be anti-Israel whether its a democracy or still a dictatorship.

You'll find the Egypt-Israeli peace treaty more than a piece of paper. Egypt has no further territorial demands from Israel, and agreed to complete demilitarization of Sinai. A possible result of retracting the agreement could see both a regional war and and end for any hope for peace for a generation in which case even human-rights Bob would struggle to blame Israel.
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A democratic Egypt will probably open up the Gaza border though.
 
holyland red said:
Israel doesn't give two shits if Egyptian get to elect their representatives as long as Egypt honour its political agreements. Egypt could be anti-Israel whether its a democracy or still a dictatorship.

You'll find the Egypt-Israeli peace treaty more than a piece of paper. Egypt has no further territorial demands from Israel, and agreed to complete demilitarization of Sinai. A possible result of retracting the agreement could see both a regional war and and end for any hope for peace for a generation in which case even human-rights Bob would struggle to blame Israel.
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You would be correct... but it's a mostly politically moderate (more modern) youth comprised of more than 70% of the Egyptian population that could be led by an internationally known and widely respected ElBaradei. (Yes, I have appointed myself his campaign manager)


So, rather than focus on doomsday scenarios... wouldn't it be more productive to explore the viable solutions?
 
The general consensus in Israel Forum is that democracy in the Arab world is not their concern and Mubarak was a stalwart ally. Furthermore, Arabs are too barbaric to have democracy:

... And the uprising in Tunisia.

This is possibly one of the most important developments in the Middle East, if the citizens of the Muslim world will overthrow their dictators.

However... One of the biggest lessons we learned from the disastrous war in Iraq, is that the Muslim world NEEDS dictators to keep things stable. The people in those countries are simply too primitive to be given the freedom to do as they please, because invariably the radical Muslims and their state patrons, like Iran and Saudi Arabia, will take over those countries and drag the world into another world war.

The question is whether Mubarak will respond with an iron fist or be steamrolled by the uprising, as happened in Tunisia.

Either way, the Muslim world's violence threatens the stability of the whole world.
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f Mubarak folds the islamic brotherhood takes over.

Maybe we'll be forced into battle and get to retake the Siani in the future.

Never a dull moment in the middle east.
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Exactly.

The Egyptian opposition is led by elBaradei, who is single handedly responsible for Iran receiving nuclear capabilities, so certainly no friend of Israel.

If ElBaradei (or any other opposition leader) gets into government, he will be quickly overtaken by the al Qaeda affiliate, Muslim Brotherhood. The radical Muslim party is very experienced at trying to destabilize the government while ElBaradei's party would be new to the game, inexperienced, and vulnerable.

I wonder if Israel would have the ability to retake the Sinai if a new Egyptian leader would disavow the peace treaty with Israel.
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As always, there are lessons to be learnt. If the outcome turns out to be a new regime in Egypt, which would abrogate the peace with Israel. Then Israel should resolve to NEVER, I say NEVER cede land again to any Arab, ever again, no matter what the promises are ...

And the other lesson would be to assimilate and internalise the fact that the Arabs are eternal enemies of the Jewish people and learn to live with it. Enough with the self deception and the kidding of ourselves ...

So, if Egypt would end up abrogating the peace deal, the most important lesson to learn would be that this war with the Arabs is a war to the finish, hopefully to the finish of the Arabs, not us. And that means that any future war would need to be fought, keeping that in mind ...
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You don't even want to know their thoughts about the Palestinians, Islam or anyone dark-skinned.
 
RedKaos said:
As I've said, I support any country in their struggle for democracy, social justice and human rights. I'm just outlining the hypocrisy of the US and other powers here - the policy tends to be that democracy is only acceptable if we deliver it via our M11 Abrams, or if our man will definitely win.
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For the record, I don't really care whether Arab/Muslim countries are democratic or not. You'll find that I never supported the war in Iraq that was alleged to bring democracy to the arab world. If anything, the Yank campaign to bring democracy to the ME showed that democracy here contradicts with a very basid human right such as the right to live.

RedKaos said:
Islamic radicalisation has never been the issue. The US are allies with the most radical Islamic nation on earth, and history has shown it to support Islamic radicals who were combating secular Arab movements. Noam Chomsky sums it up perfectly here:

It's not radical Islam that worries the US
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It's quite clear that US has its own selfish interests in the ME which are way more important to them than Arab democracies. Was that ever in doubt? I don't think they any more hypocrites than others. I'm sure you boycott Israeli products, but do you boycott Chinese products (as I know you're only motivated by human rights issues)? You are a strong supported of the Iranian/Syrian nuclear and long-rangev missile programs- are you bothered that it is based on North Korean technology? I'm sure Chomsky isn't too.

RedKaos said:
I don't believe its a Zionist plot no. A CIA plot - possibly, at most the Mossad might be involved in tipping the boat in Mubarak's favour but nothing more than that. To simply say that Israeli interests determine US policy is like saying the tail wags the dog, the US wants whats best for Israel because it correlates with it's own hegemony in the region.
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This sounds fair. And Israel should convince the US it enhances its hegemony.
 
spinoza said:
A democratic Egypt will probably open up the Gaza border though.
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Which would contradict an internationally agreed political agreement which stated that PA and European personnel would monitor all GS checkpoints.

If there is a satisfactory monitoring mechanism I guess Israel could live with this. Most shit gets through the tunnels anyway.
 
holyland red said:
Which would contradict an internationally agreed political agreement which stated that PA and European personnel would monitor all GS checkpoints.

If there is a satisfactory monitoring mechanism I guess Israel could live with this. Most shit gets through the tunnels anyway.
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I'm sure you think the agreement is ineffective.

I think the effect of opening the border (while complying with all international agreements, getting Israel's permission, etc etc) will be to legitimise Hamas even more, which is counter-productive for Israel.
 
spinoza said:
I'm sure you think the agreement is ineffective.

I think the effect of opening the border (while complying with all international agreements, getting Israel's permission, etc etc) will be to legitimise Hamas even more, which is counter-productive for Israel.
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Completely agree.

The last thing a post-revolution Egypt would do is suck up to Israel's security needs. Which is exactly what it would be doing.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
You would be correct... but it's a mostly politically moderate (more modern) youth comprised of more than 70% of the Egyptian population that could be led by an internationally known and widely respected ElBaradei. (Yes, I have appointed myself his campaign manager)


So, rather than focus on doomsday scenarios... wouldn't it be more productive to explore the viable solutions?
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Your ability to analyze Egyptian society so accurately from the comfort of your West-Coast armchair is quite impressive. The truth is that most experts are quite cautious in trying to presdict what may come next, because it is next to impossible trying to figure out the magnitude of support each Egyptian opposition faction enjoys.

You'll have to ask Avatar first, but my guess would be that El-Baradei is more popular in North-West US than in Egypt. I also think that the figure of 70% fits better the level of literacy in Egypt rather than the fraction of "modern youth".
 
spinoza said:
I have a more important question. Why is Sinai not spelt Sainai? Or Sini? Or should it be pronounced see-NAI instead?
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That's how it is pronounced in Hebrew. I guess this will catch up when the peace agreement is retracted and we have to recapture the territory again. ;)
 
spinoza said:
I'm sure you think the agreement is ineffective.

I think the effect of opening the border (while complying with all international agreements, getting Israel's permission, etc etc) will be to legitimise Hamas even more, which is counter-productive for Israel.
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The Gaza Strip status quo won't last forever either way. As always, Israel will have to do the hard work itself. My guess is that Hamas will be toppled when Israel has to go to war in Gaza again. It had to be done during Cast Lead, and it's only a question of time now really.
 
Mihajlovic said:
I don't understand, why would it not be be in Israel's interest to support democratic governments in the ME (if this is what is being implied)?
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It's simple. Most Middle eastern neighbours of Israeli would vote in Islamic radical anti Israeli governments en mass if given the chance. Remember how Hamas came to power. It's a classic case of being between a rock and a hard place.
 
holyland red said:
It's quite clear that US has its own selfish interests in the ME which are way more important to them than Arab democracies. Was that ever in doubt? I don't think they any more hypocrites than others. I'm sure you boycott Israeli products, but do you boycott Chinese products (as I know you're only motivated by human rights issues)? You are a strong supported of the Iranian/Syrian nuclear and long-rangev missile programs- are you bothered that it is based on North Korean technology? I'm sure Chomsky isn't too.
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I don't believe in boycotts as they would ostracise the entire Israeli population, some of which are moderates who are campaigning for Palestinian social justice. Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians relying on Israeli businesses. If I was going to embrace a boycott then I would start with Israel's greenlight - the US, not Israel itself. I've always advocated an educational policy instead.

But yes call me a hypocrite but as much as I dislike the Iranian regime, I do support their nuclear program on the grounds that it brings about a much needed power balance, especially considering that another nation in the region is a nuclear power that has refused to sign the NPT...backed by another nuclear power. It's a dangerous monopoly.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It's simple. Most Middle eastern neighbours of Israeli would vote in Islamic radical anti Israeli governments en mass if given the chance. Remember how Hamas came to power. It's a classic case of being between a rock and a hard place.
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:wenger: Ignorant much?

You're forgetting that the Arab world in the 60s and 70s was as secular as any other place on the globe. When the secular movements were destroyed by the US and it's regional allies (including the radical Saudis), the vacuum that remained was occupied by Islamic factions, who had been supported by the US.

As for Hamas....again it's a classic example. The main Palestinian organisation the PLO was a secular movement, when it was destroyed the support shifted to Hamas, who enjoyed popularity due to the desperate state of the population of the Gaza strip and the continued illegal settlement building in the WB.
 
holyland red said:
:lol:

You mean the Tzipi Livni that can't visit the UK because she could find herself arrested for suspected war crimes? Livni was a member of Olmert's cabinet during the 2006 Lebanon war and operation Cast Lead in Gaza. You went ape shit yourself during both, remember? When did Netanyahu last go to war?
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I missed that story...

I thought Livni was the moderate. I try my best to keep up with the news but work has gotten in the way over the past few years.

It doesn't help Israel in that the person that had been propped up as the moderate, really isn't. But then again... who am I to talk, Sen. John Kerry throwing the 2004 Presidential election was embarrassing for the USA.
 
holyland red said:
Your ability to analyze Egyptian society so accurately from the comfort of your West-Coast armchair is quite impressive. The truth is that most experts are quite cautious in trying to presdict what may come next, because it is next to impossible trying to figure out the magnitude of support each Egyptian opposition faction enjoys.

You'll have to ask Avatar first, but my guess would be that El-Baradei is more popular in North-West US than in Egypt. I also think that the figure of 70% fits better the level of literacy in Egypt rather than the fraction of "modern youth".
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I'm curious as to your thoughts/feelings on El-Baradei as a possible transition figure?
 
The revolution has just received a major boost God's willing. All people who were saying enough and wait for Mubarak's transition wanna go to the streets now. And the boost came from a very unlikely source. May sound cheesy for you , but it came from a young man who has been detained for 12 days and we discovered lately that he's the facebook admin of a popular group dedicated to a victim of police torture months ago. This is the group that primarily and possibly with other sources organized and started the revolution. No one knew who the admin was until lately.

Here's the last minute of his interview who has touched all the people who watched it and gave us a much needed boost . She was showing some of the martyrs pics. he break down and said :



" i just wanna say seriously something for the moms and dads who lost their sons.......... am sorry but that wasn't our mistake... i swear by allah that was not our mistake..... its the mistake of everyone sitting in power and clinging to it"
of course with emotions and crying and all
then he said " i wanna go" and he stood and walked off as you can see
 
A democratically elected govt has the same international limitations as a dictatorship. Internally it may have more legitimacy and support but internationally, militarily it faces the same issues with the same resources. Whatever the new politics inside Egypt dictate the country's ability to effect change on Israel remains the same. It can't; and any change in its stance on Gaza would be a disaster for Egypt which is why the current regime took the line it did.

I don't want to piss on anyone’s strawberries here but revolutions are all about internal politics and much needed domestic, social change they can cause international realignment but seldom deliver on the unrealistic popular external demands.
 
Sorry for not reporting much .there are tens of stories that should be told. Tahrir is becoming like a beautiful story.. unbelievable. I hope it will be with a happy ending God's willing
 
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