Abortion

nickm said:
I'm going to assume this is all blokes discussing whether women should control their own bodies or not. It usually is.
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Pro-choice guy here but this line has never made sense. What topic of societal importance has only been limited to the people who are directly impacted by it? Would menopausal women or virgins not be allowed to discuss this topic without the same snark?

Regarding abortion, the sooner the pharma companies come out with a male contraceptive pill or a reversible vasectomy option, the better. Men are the main reason pregnancies happen. Inefficient and discriminating to just focus on the women by forcing them to carry a baby to term
 
africanspur said:
I try as much as I can to engage with people online as I would in real life, though knowing full well that the same might not be happening the other way round.

Some of these comments are undoubtedly trolls and I know almost nobody changes their minds online. But I think getting angry and exasperated defeats the purpose of discussion. Maybe nobody will ever change their mind or maybe just 1 person will but I've got to at least try I think.

Maybe I'm the fool!
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It's all good. More power to you, I suppose. It was just such a colossally stupid idea. The human race going extinct because we've discovered how to terminate pregnancies. How do you even begin to correct that sort of ignorance?!
 
I see Roe and Wade being struck down, or at least gutted in such a way that abortion becomes practically infeasible for millions of women in the South, Mid and Central West states. Just a backwards nation in so many ways, and they'll also leave the children and mothers to fend for their own self.
 
In the clusterfeck that is the last few pages of this thread one thing that stood out. An unmarried woman shouldn't have an abortion, because as soon as her future husband finds out she isn't a virgin she's fecked anyway.

Here's a thought, maybe the fault lies with the society that harshly punishes a woman for having sex out of marriage. It's 2019, get a fecking grip. Reading stuff like this really REALLY doesn't help my understanding of the functional role of religion in modern society (which it has, not all religion is bad, moderation is fine). Men can feck around all they want and be high fived and lauded as a play boy, but woe is the woman who dares to have sex before getting married. She will be dealt with accordingly.

Does my head in.

Even more than the people who seem to think that women have abortions like they have a hairdressers appointment. Ah, feck it, no big deal, out it goes. Have a little empathy you psycho. Having an abortion is horrible. A pregnant woman is far more aware of any men that the beginnings of life are in her belly. Really don't need any splaining in that regard.

Cnuts.

Apologies for the rant. I'm okay now.
 
It would be of great use to know who are the females who are posting on this highly divisive subject.
Reason being that I would find it morally wrong for a male to tell a female what she should and should not do regarding abortion.
 
Buster15 said:
I would find it morally wrong for a male to tell a female what she should and should not do regarding abortion.
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I would argue that any men who are pro-choice are not telling any woman what she should do but agreeing that she should in fact have control of her own body.
 
adexkola said:
I see Roe and Wade being struck down, or at least gutted in such a way that abortion becomes practically infeasible for millions of women in the South, Mid and Central West states. Just a backwards nation in so many ways, and they'll also leave the children and mothers to fend for their own self.
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This is the part of their "logic" I can never wrap my head around.

They'll fight to the bitter end to stop someone having an abortion, but provide healthcare to the baby and new mother? feck you, you socialist parasite.

My loathing for the GOP truly knows no bounds, and I don't even live there.
 
Buster15 said:
It would be of great use to know who are the females who are posting on this highly divisive subject.
Reason being that I would find it morally wrong for a male to tell a female what she should and should not do regarding abortion.
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Women can be found on either side of the debate. Terri Collins, a woman, introduced the abortion bill in the Alabama House of Representatives.
 
KirkDuyt said:
In the clusterfeck that is the last few pages of this thread one thing that stood out. An unmarried woman shouldn't have an abortion, because as soon as her future husband finds out she isn't a virgin she's fecked anyway.

Here's a thought, maybe the fault lies with the society that harshly punishes a woman for having sex out of marriage. It's 2019, get a fecking grip. Reading stuff like this really REALLY doesn't help my understanding of the functional role of religion in modern society (which it has, not all religion is bad, moderation is fine). Men can feck around all they want and be high fived and lauded as a play boy, but woe is the woman who dares to have sex before getting married. She will be dealt with accordingly.

Does my head in.

Even more than the people who seem to think that women have abortions like they have a hairdressers appointment. Ah, feck it, no big deal, out it goes. Have a little empathy you psycho. Having an abortion is horrible. A pregnant woman is far more aware of any men that the beginnings of life are in her belly. Really don't need any splaining in that regard.

Cnuts.

Apologies for the rant. I'm okay now.
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Love a good rant, I think you’re spot on.
 
Can't believe this is still an issue in the 21st century.
It's a womans body and they and only they get to decide what to do with it, it really is that simple.
We don't live in some utopian fantasy world where everythings perfect and we all live happily ever after, it's real life, warts and all.
What right have I got to tell a woman she must go through with a pregnancy which for all sorts of reasons isn't wanted? None, none at all.
Just how hard must it be for a woman to take that decision, I think this being overlooked a little bit here, It must be horrendous however the pregnancy came about and to bring religion into the debate (I personally don't think its a debate of any meaning once you take religion out of it) is disgusting.
 
I've come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by social demographic statistics.
 
Kinsella said:
I've come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by social demographic statistics.
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No white text, eh?
 
Kinsella said:
I've come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by social demographic statistics.
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What are these other established values we'll deviate from and what are the obvious implications?
 
Kinsella said:
I've come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by social demographic statistics.
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But it's ok for for a foetus to have more "sanctity of life" than a woman, right?
 
Maagge said:
What are these other established values we'll deviate from and what are the obvious implications?
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The obvious ones are marriage, family etc, and they already have been deviated from. The statistics bear it out. Ireland is very useful comparator in this regard, because the cultural change it has undergone in relatively recent times happened in most other 'Western' countries a generation (or two) prior.

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt; both national and now private. All of which contributes to a comparative decline, a decline which explains a lot of the changing politics across much of the 'Western' world right now.
 
Kinsella said:
The obvious ones are marriage, family etc, and they already have been deviated from. The statistics bear it out. Ireland is very useful comparator in this regard, because the cultural change it has undergone in relatively recent times happened in most other 'Western' countries a generation (or two) prior.

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt; both national and now private. All of which contributes to a comparative decline, a decline which explains a lot of the changing politics across much of the 'Western' world right now.
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Don't hold back now. It's all because we've run away from the church, isn't it?

And all marriages and families were perfect in the past, which the stats also bear out, naturally?
 
Kinsella said:
I've come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by social demographic statistics.
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Same correlation as the one found to rock music, I’m assuming?
 
Kinsella said:
The obvious ones are marriage, family etc, and they already have been deviated from. The statistics bear it out. Ireland is very useful comparator in this regard, because the cultural change it has undergone in relatively recent times happened in most other 'Western' countries a generation (or two) prior.

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt; both national and now private. All of which contributes to a comparative decline, a decline which explains a lot of the changing politics across much of the 'Western' world right now.
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This has got to be, one of the dumbest things i've read on here. Every sentence just gets dumber than the last.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Don't hold back now. It's all because we've run away from the church, isn't it?
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I'm being descriptive. Every 'value system' brings consequences for society, and this is the case all across the globe. Whether they are religious or not is irrelevant.

unchanged_lineup said:
And all marriages and families were perfect in the past, which the stats also bear out, naturally?
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When did I claim they were?
 
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Kinsella said:
The obvious ones are marriage, family etc, and they already have been deviated from. The statistics bear it out. Ireland is very useful comparator in this regard, because the cultural change it has undergone in relatively recent times happened in most other 'Western' countries a generation (or two) prior.

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt; both national and now private. All of which contributes to a comparative decline, a decline which explains a lot of the changing politics across much of the 'Western' world right now.
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People get divorced more as they move away from religion? Or people get divorced more as abortion becomes legal?

Debt happens because we borrow money from the future, not because we get divorced.
 
Kinsella said:
I'm being descriptive. Every 'value system' brings consequences for society, and this is the case all across the globe. Whether they are religious or not is irrelevant.



Where did I claim they were?
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So marriages and families are declining from being rubbish then?

I find this line of thinking odd too considering we voted for more marriage in Ireland just a few years ago.

Or perhaps you think that's not "real" marriage.
 
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What is the argument against aborting fetus' that would otherwise not survive if birthed?
 
Maagge said:
People get divorced more as they move away from religion? Or people get divorced more as abortion becomes legal?
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Well, it's demonstrably true that the incidence of both increases as society (or people) moves away from religion. That's just a simple statement of fact. Abortion has remained the ethical debate that it has for obvious reasons; whereas marriage of course has not.

Maagge said:
Debt happens because we borrow money from the future, not because we get divorced.
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The growth of the state generally brings increasing debt and the decline of family contributes substantially to the former. That's my point.

The level of debt that exists in many countries now for example would only previously have been seen during times of war.
 
Kinsella said:
Well, it's demonstrably true that the incidence of both increases as society (or people) moves away from religion. That's just a simple statement of fact. Abortion has remained the ethical debate that it has for obvious reasons; whereas marriage of course has not.
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Funny isn't it that people who are in unhappy marriages decide to not be in that unhappy marriage when they're no longer afraid of burning in hell or being shunned and shamed.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
So marriages and families are declining from being rubbish then?

I find this line of thinking odd too considering we voted for more marriage in Ireland just a few years ago.

Or perhaps you think that's not "real" marriage.
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Eh?

Two things - i) I'm in favour of same sex marriage, and ii) where did I mention it?
 
Kinsella said:
The obvious ones are marriage, family etc, and they already have been deviated from. The statistics bear it out. Ireland is very useful comparator in this regard, because the cultural change it has undergone in relatively recent times happened in most other 'Western' countries a generation (or two) prior.

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt; both national and now private. All of which contributes to a comparative decline, a decline which explains a lot of the changing politics across much of the 'Western' world right now.
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This is basically just wailing "o tempora, o mores". Which is a stable and defining element of every single human culture. We always seem to think we live in an age of decline, that our ancestors' morals were stronger, their values firmer. Even fecking Socrates complained about the "youth of today".
 
Carolina Red said:
More marriages end in divorce because women actually have property rights now and because people live longer. It has nothing to do with abortion.
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I didn't claim that people get divorced because of abortion. :lol:
 
Kinsella said:
I've come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by social demographic statistics.
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the people who thought jizzy eggs were people also thought black people could be owned and murdering people who besmirched you was proper behaviour so they can go suck a fat syphilitic dick
 
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