That's still young for a midfielder.
Anderson
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That really doesn't prove anything, he cant go through his career only playing with Cleverley. I think we've been fooled by his early season form with Cleverley into thinking he'd progressed more than he has
24 will still be young, and so will be 25 and 26, but he needs to start developing. Cleverley is a year younger than him and has much less experience so if he starts performing the same way, I will be glad to give him the benefit of doubt and hope he comes good because realistically it's his second season at this level and first at club of this stature. For Anderson, who has been with us for four and and a half years, it shouldn't be much of an issue to be here but it seems like it is.
Thinking about his season so far, it's really odd. Somehow his best performances have got better at the same time as his worst performances have got worse. Really strange.
Most people aren't saying he should be sold, but are angry at how lacklustre he was last night. Nani wasn't great and gave the ball away needlessly and didn't track back a few times, but in general he seemed to be putting in more effort and was asking for the ball and trying to influence play. Anderson didn't seem to be putting in any effort to temper his bad performance, didn't demand the ball or help his team mates, and that is what has aggravated so many people. Even Berbatov had more urgency and looked like he cared about the poor performance, despite the sulks, and he had some moments of quality although they were sporadic.
He clearly has ability and talent, and I do still hope he can straighten his head out and become a talisman for us, but last night his effort and attitude were poor.
He clearly has ability and talent, and I do still hope he can straighten his head out and become a talisman for us, but last night his effort and attitude were poor.
I have come to the conclusion he is not good enough and never will be.
The odd good game is not enough.
The odd good game is not enough.
Wrong. Midfielders start to mature at 25. If he is still this way aged 25 you can complain.
C'mon now! its hardly an exact science. You cant just decide an age and wait till then to see if he comes good! Another display like that last night attitudewise and that will be the end of him. The mistakes he made passing wise are so frustrating but ultimately forgiveable. His attitude and "will to win" last night were absolutely shocking.
I could only imagine how he'd fair in a dressing room with Robbo Bruce and Keane
How did you come to that conclusion, as if it were a fixed law?
We can't wait another 3 years to see if he is good enough.
Zidane, Lampard, Xavi, Ballack to name a few well known ones.......
Perfect post.
Smooth, Steve. Real smooth.
Eh? Anderson is no where near the level those players were at his age.
I'm still struggling to get my head round it.
As has already been pointed out, Rooney made 98 passes last night and Anderson just 31. 31 times he got on the ball in 70 odd minutes. Granted, he fecked up one in four of those passes but still, he'd have to have been actively hiding to be so uninvolved when his partner in midfield was as involved as Rooney was. It's astonishing, it really is.
By way of comparison, Anderson attempted 81 passes against Bolton. It's forgiveable to have a day where you just can't pass straight (every now and then, anyway) but to blatantly give up the ghost like that shows a very poor mentality. Fergie will be well aware of stats like these and I can't see him having much more patience with a player who seems to give up so completely if it's not quite happening for him. That's not the sort of personality he's looking for in a Manchester United player.
He was magnificent that game. Either his confidence has taken a real blow or he's just not that arsed. Anderson at the beginning of the season seemed to be have a purpose for whatever he was doing on the field. Now it looks as if that same drive is gone. Not sure if he needs another run of games or what.
It's actually quite sad seeing him play like this. We all know he can be much better but he's got to get himself back into form. Strange situation.
Well supposedly he's come off hurt and needs to be evaluated for Saturday.
Poor Anderson has been played out of position ever since the first day he arrived, he was something like a second striker at Porto which he was very good at, we have tried to change him into a midfielder and are ruining him
Problem is, when you're looking at his finishing, shooting or passing in the final third, you can't help but wonder if he can even cut it as a second striker.
I very much agree with the claim that midfielders tend to mature late. You sometimes see a young one doing briiliantly, but for every Fabregas there's a Xavi. Problem is you'd like to see some progress over time and I'm not sure we are. He has the odd good match or a few good ones, then he's back to being terrible. You never know what to expect. Unplayable on his day, impossible to play with on other days.
I very much agree with the claim that midfielders tend to mature late. You sometimes see a young one doing briiliantly, but for every Fabregas there's a Xavi. Problem is you'd like to see some progress over time and I'm not sure we are. He has the odd good match or a few good ones, then he's back to being terrible. You never know what to expect. Unplayable on his day, impossible to play with on other days.
Yeah, it's us that's "ruining him" alright.
Do you know how many games he played at Porto compared to how many he's played for United?
Poor Anderson...
Whats that got to do with it? how many games? who cares how many games, he was showing a lot of potential playing in one position and he showing not a lot of potential playing in another.And it was on the amount games that he had played at Porto on which we decided to spend 20m or so wasn't it?
You've really latched onto that stat haven't you?
The fact is you're just dying to criticise Anderson, and you're making invalid comparisons to justify your statements. Why don't you have a proper look at those passing stats that you so love...
Here we see the chalkboard for all of Rooney's passes:
And here we see a chalkboard of Anderson's FORWARD passes:
As we can see, Rooney made quite a lot of sideways and backwards passes. So your stat of 98 vs 31 is total bullshit
I think you've got the stat for forward passes for Anderson and Rooney's for overall.
Does anyone have the real Anderson stats for how many passes he attempted?
You've really latched onto that stat haven't you?
The fact is you're just dying to criticise Anderson, and you're making invalid comparisons to justify your statements. Why don't you have a proper look at those passing stats that you so love...
Here we see the chalkboard for all of Rooney's passes:
And here we see a chalkboard of Anderson's FORWARD passes:
As we can see, Rooney made quite a lot of sideways and backwards passes. So your stat of 98 vs 31 is total bullshit
I'm just reposting graphs previously posted by Maciek. Assumed it was like for like, without checking the titles. When you include backwards/sideways passes does his passing seem any less shit? Enlighten me.
Fabregas, Vieira, Keane, Wilshere to name some others.
According to Whoscored.com, he made 72 passes out of which 47 were successful.
You had Anderson down as "hiding". 72 passes isn't that bad. I know its not got the productivity of Xavi, but the fact is you were very quick to villify him after last night. A bit of logic would tell you that only 31 passes in 70 minutes against such inferior opposition isn't even viable. I'd like to see the forward passing stats of Rooney also before people start solely bashing Anderson
47 out of 72 is fecking atrocious. A winger with stats like that would be having a stinker and that's including crosses.
Still, the comment about hiding is unfair. Stats aside, he didn't look to be making much of an effort but he must have at least looked to get on the ball.
Still, the comment about hiding is unfair. Stats aside, he didn't look to be making much of an effort but he must have at least looked to get on the ball.
To be fair we dont need stats to do that after last night, having eyes qualifies us.
I saw on Twitter it had been 47/62 (76%).
Apparently he made two successful tackles (x), does anyone remember them?
It isn't an exact science. But most top midfielders follow that path. The types that mature much earlier ala Fabregas, Matthaeus, Keane or Vieira are rare gems indeed.
When it comes to play makers they usually take even more of their time. Scholes and especially Xavi are two great examples. They both came into their own as great play makers after their 27th birthday. although in Scholes case he was still a fantastic attacking midfielder in the mean time. Zizou too became the best bar none around that same age.
Fergie can and he most likely will.
Come on. Xavi was worse than him at age 23 mate. The whole Barca wanted him sold save for his manager.
That kinda explains the re-run of his 2008/09 champions league final appearance.
Exception to the rule. This idea that every top midfielder started out as mature as Wilshere, Vieira, Keane, Fabregas and Mathaus whilst younger is an enduring myth amongst football fans. A very misguided one at that.
Talent and form are one thing and if anybody had a point regarding how long it takes to mature none of that changes his frankly piss poor work ethic. He could have all the ability in the world but with his current attitude he'll never make it.
Ah, I thought that was total passes for Anderson as well.
76% is about what Giggs usually averages, but that's because he's trying high risk passes constantly, so when they do come off we generally create a chance. Anderson wasn't anything like that incisive to be so sloppy.
I'd behind Anderson, but I don't see what excuse he has to go out there any not fight as hard as he can. SAF can't have that much more patience for him, if he doesn't come around this season, or possibly the next.
76% is about what Giggs usually averages, but that's because he's trying high risk passes constantly, so when they do come off we generally create a chance. Anderson wasn't anything like that incisive to be so sloppy.
I'd behind Anderson, but I don't see what excuse he has to go out there any not fight as hard as he can. SAF can't have that much more patience for him, if he doesn't come around this season, or possibly the next.
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