The last 10 minutes?
Not a "new style" no, most people are just saying that if Anderson played like Carrick or Scholes, he's piss through 90 minutes without getting tired. I think that's more than a valid point.
Anderson
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The last 10 minutes?
Not a "new style" no, most people are just saying that if Anderson played like Carrick or Scholes, he's piss through 90 minutes without getting tired. I think that's more than a valid point.
No he doesn't.
Dembele is a similar playing style to Anderson with those runs and he pulls it off.
Obviously I don't agree with the kebab jibe, but yes, it's absolutely true of Toure as well. He looks heavy, not as fit as he should be. So why is this being used as an excuse for Anderson? Ask yourself what's more likely, that the two aren't giving their all in training or they've developed a style of play that effects them in a way not seen before.
As I said before though, I don't see how any correlation can be drawn between the two, good or bad.
I can't believe you're trying to use Toure as an excuse for Anderson not being able to complete 90 minutes.
I don't see that it's valid at all, if he played like somebody 30+ he'd be ok? The point of playing youth is that they bring youthful energy levels.
I can't remember a United player in recent history who was 'allowed' to run out of steam because of how he played.
I can just imagine Fergie talking to him now. "ah don't worry about not being able to finish games lad, sure Yaya can't finish them either!"
A previous criticism of Anderson is that he lasted 60 minutes. I see after he made a couple of great lung busting runs yesterday around that mark it's now "he can't finish games". I'm glad at least this idiocy has now been pushed back to 80 minutes.
Unfortunately, I agree with this.
Played well last night, credit where its due - but I'll reserve judgment to see if he can string more than a handful together before picking up another injury.
But it has been seen before, all through football history.
Do you not agree that they'd both be fine if they conserved energy like Carrick or Scholes? Hell, let's take the over 30's out of it and say, like or Fabregas or Modric? I'm certain they'd be fine, but because they'll never be anywhere near as good as Fabregas at that kind of game, they'll be shitter players for it.
Maybe the two of them will only ever be able to last 70 minutes playing the way they do due to their bodies, no matter how much extra work they put him, people have limits and maybe their limits are just not that great for the type of game they play.
Put it another way. There is simply not a chance in the World that United don't have Anderson running at the very optimum of his fitness, cause if he wasn't, he'd have been out of the door long ago.
You're having a nightmare Cina.
I've officially decided that I give up on Anderson again. I don't think he'll ever be more than a squad player for us. His inconsistency is just too big of a problem. We can't rely on him and I'll be very surprised if we ever can.
Selling him isn't the best option this summer though as we're likely to lose Scholes and Fletcher.
Selling him isn't the best option this summer though as we're likely to lose Scholes and Fletcher.
He generally makes those lung busting runs after the hour mark and then stands around doing literally nothing for the next minute, he's always done that. It's not about how many sprints he can do, it's about his recovery time after those sprints.
Yeah they'd be ok if they played like Scholes or Carrick, but he's 24, why would you accept him playing like somebody 10 years his senior? Scholes didn't play his current game when he was Andersons age.
It's just a massively tenuous link to explain Anderson by bringing up Toure. Does Toure look fit (as in athlete fit) to you?
You don't manage a team in such a way. You don't bomb a player out because he's 10% short. You must agree that some players train harder than others? We've always had players who have a rep for being poor trainers, Pallister, Cole, Brown, Tevez. The manager didn't get rid of any of them.
There is no point to miss. You could pick any midfielder in the world to compare Anderson to, why Toure? Why not Wilshere, why not Gerrard? There's no link between the two, I think you're just scratching around for an excuse. Yeah they both struggle to play for 90mins, they're also both Black.
Great input.
Good game. Actually thought he grew as the game wore on rather than fading.n
Likable though he is, Anderson doesn't have the profile to control central midfield.
Undecided about him really, up to Fergie to do what's best for United.
Undecided about him really, up to Fergie to do what's best for United.
He got rid of 2 of them.
I thought the reason for comparing him to Toure was obvious, he has a similar problem. I'm not gonna compare him to Gerrard who doesn't.
I think people have a cap on their physical capabilities, and I wanted to show another player, with a similar all action game that also appears to have a cap. Like I said at the start of this, I don't have a clue if I'm right, I just find it more likely than SAF letting a fat, unfit player in his squad who eats kebabs after matches.
Maybe you don't think players have a physical limit.
Cina: Your comment added nothing but sillyness, hence my reply adding nothing in return. I'm not gonna go round in circles here making the same point for 5 pages. Ando may or may not have the ability to get fitter, I certainly don't know.
Anderson has played 164 senior competitive games for us...and is in his 6th season here.
I think he has under-achieved in that time.
He appears unfit and rarely finishes games...seemingly to run out of energy. If that's a physiological issue then we have bought a player who can't give 100% for an entire match. If it's a fitness issue then he needs a kick up the backside.
On the other hand, he has had his fair share of injuries and is still relatively young...so maybe, even after six seasons, we need to give him more time.
I hope supporters give Welbeck, Cleverley and other juniors six seasons of patience.
I think he has under-achieved in that time.
He appears unfit and rarely finishes games...seemingly to run out of energy. If that's a physiological issue then we have bought a player who can't give 100% for an entire match. If it's a fitness issue then he needs a kick up the backside.
On the other hand, he has had his fair share of injuries and is still relatively young...so maybe, even after six seasons, we need to give him more time.
I hope supporters give Welbeck, Cleverley and other juniors six seasons of patience.
Some of them haven't given Welbeck two seasons!
Is anybody actually putting that forward as an explanation?
I agree humans have a physical limit, do I believe 70mins of football is Andersons? No.
I think the obvious, logical, common sense cause is him not being as fit as he could be. If you want to go for the other theory, then fair enough, I just don't see any evidence for it.
I don't care who from what team cannot finish games either. What matters is whether our players can. How Toure or Ozil or whomever are relevant to this is beyond me. I expect Anderson to be fit enough to play full games, or (going by some theories) be sensible enough to know his limits so that he isn't knackered after <insert minutes here>.
Have you considered the possibility that it's something that makes Fergie reluctant to play him more? The fact that he basically knows he'll have to use a substitute just for him before the game even starts. It's a big hindrance to his career here and excuses on the issue will do no good. I doubt the coaches give two fecks about what other players have these issues or that his sprints etc are the reason he's not finishing games, they want a capable player over 90 minutes, simple.
I thought he did ok during the game, but looking at it again, there were a lot of sloppy, misplaced passes. Cleverley wasn't much better. Disappointing that without Carrick we can't control the midfield against opposition like Reading at Old Trafford.
Spot on. I dont see why people are so keen to make exuses - and that's precisely what it is.
Clubs can try their best to keep a player "fit" (in the broadest sense) giving them their meals, giving then training plans to stick to over the summer - but they can't do it for them, nor force them to do it. If players have a bad diet, or like a beer to often the club can do very little about it.
To me he looks a bit overweight. Not in itself a problem - if he's playing plenty of games and his fitness around the park is there. Add it to the fact that he's often unable to fight off niggling injury and rarely finishes a game and commen sense dictates there's an issue.
As a young lad a bad diet can be kept in check by training regularly, but it gets harder the older you get, especially if you've been injured and not amended your intake accordingly.
At the end of the day he's paid handsomely for what he does, so in my book he needs to be as fit as he can be.
So you know that do you for certain?
Strange, I've maintained all along that I have no clue.
Fergie has mellow a lot. There's no way you can see him tolerated player like Anderson in the 90's and (large part of) '00 teams.
We have struggled to control the midfield even with Carrick many times, tbf. Look at Southampton at home just a few weeks back.
I have certainly considered that Cina, of course and I think you probably have a point. Thing is, is SAF thought this was Anderson's own fault for not working hard enough, I just can't see that he'd be still at the club.
Yes. Just read back a little, I didn't pull that out of my arse.
I don't want to go for any theory, as I have repeated again and again, I have no clue.
I personally think Anderson should take 10% off the rest of his game and then he'll see through 90 no problem, which he would do if he did. If he can get fitter and perform as intense as he does now but for 90 full minutes, even better, but I can't see it happening. I think he's always gonna be blowing after 80 minutes no matter how hard he trains if he keeps playing the way he does.
I've given you examples though of players who had a rep for not being the best trainers but were here for years. Doesn't that prove the manager takes in the bigger picture and doesn't manage by sports science alone?
None of the players you mentioned had problems with their fitness late in games, in fact, one of them was one of the hardest workers I've ever seen at the club.
SAF never had to think, "I don't wanna start Pally, Cole or Tevez cause they'll be blowing later on and I'll have to sub them".
I have no idea why my posts are being so misinterpreted.
There are plenty of reasons why Anderson could still be here. He cost €30m, he's still -25, we don't have many other options in midfield (and will have less after impending retirements).
I reckon he's been lucky because in the last few years we've been a bit lacking and thin in our midfield therefore getting rid of him wouldn't really make any sense. I can't really remember many players Fergie has been so unbelievably patient with before, can you?
I think that's probably true, he just does so much sprinting.
Sure, but you're reasoning is that the manager wouldn't have a player at the club who wasn't putting their all into training, when as I've pointed out, that's not the case. He takes a much wider view of the player than that.
You surely accept that different payers will train at different intensities and some will be more dedicated than others in terms of nutrition etc? You can't believe that they're all completely uniform in that regard.
That wasn't my reasoning at all, you've come to that conclusion yourself. None of the players you mentioned had problems finishing games and therefore are bound to be granted leeway, especially such good players. A player who doesn't give his all on the training ground AND can't finish a game... you can't bet your arse he'd be out of the door faster than he can Anderson.
Amazed you can't see that. SAF tolerating a shit trainer who can't finish a game due to not working hard enough, he's mellowed our manager, but not that much.
Of course. We could go round in cirlces on this one because you keep misinterpreting my posts, either because you like to argue with me or because I'm shit at getting my point across... but the thing is, I conceded a long time ago that you may well be bang on, I have no clue.
It's just confusing when you say the manager wouldn't tolerate an Anderson who wasn't at optimum fitness whilst accepting that some players are better trainers and more dedicated than others.
The two sentiments can't simultaneously apply.
While one must concede that Ando lifted his game in the second half yesterday, his fitness is still a liability. It's hard to understand how a professional footballer this level could be so chronically out of shape. A shame, as you can see he's got ability and, here and there, decent vision.
Knowing what we know now, we'd never have paid 18m of whatever it was for him, but he's on the books as of now and if nothing else is a good squad man. But wouldn't have him in the starting XI in a must win situation. His heart isn't into this football stuff and while that may be good enough to do a job on Reading that's simply not good enough to do a job on, say, Liverpool or Everton.
Knowing what we know now, we'd never have paid 18m of whatever it was for him, but he's on the books as of now and if nothing else is a good squad man. But wouldn't have him in the starting XI in a must win situation. His heart isn't into this football stuff and while that may be good enough to do a job on Reading that's simply not good enough to do a job on, say, Liverpool or Everton.
Pretty sure he'd be alright against that lot.
I'm unsure why this debate about him being unfit has materialised after his performance yesterday. For me him and Cleverley were poor in the first half, but Anderson particularly grew in his last 20-30 mins on the pitch (coinciding with RVP coming on).
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