Anderson

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Pogue Mahone said:
He looked no more comfortable receiving the ball under pressure than Fletcher did today. In fact, Fletcher played much better. Anderson just had a bad game. Don't think it's any more complicated than that.

For me, the only real worry is that the fitness issue seems to be rearing it's ugly head again. He could barely move faster than walking pace for most of the second half. Which is a real shame because he looked so much fitter a few weeks ago.
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He's started more games and played more football than anyone else this season (barring possibly Evra?), and in a position that demands you cover more ground and get through more work than any other. If players who've played less than him have been deemed in need of a rest then it's not really surprising he's struggling with it a bit. I'm still confused why we didn't rest him in midweek and play Giggs alongside Carrick. Fletcher and Nani needed a rest but Anderson didn't?

He did have a bad game today, but he wasn't the only one. I thought Rooney was both rubbish and quite twattish, Hernandez was pointless, Nani lookeed laboured, Valencia looks about as comfortable as a Premiership full back as I would, etc...it was a bad day at the office, rescued by us at least upping the tempo in the second half, and even then we were a mess.

With regards to receiving the ball under pressure. I think that's the big difference between Carrick and Fletcher, and Anderson and Cleverley. The later two don't care if they're marked or in a tight situation. They trust their own ability to find an out ball or work the space for themselves. Fletcher and Carrick back off instead. Cleverley's still very much an unknown quantity so Anderson's going to be playing a lot if our style of play at the start of the season is a gameplan rather than just a flash in the pan.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The old "it's Fletcher's fault Anderson can't pass the ball straight and fecking WALKS round the pitch" theory. Aye, that makes a whole lot of sense.
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We now have nearly 3 seasons of more or less perfect correlation to prove this.
The amount of times Anderson looks up to play a give and go and his cm
Partner is jogging about the pitch behind an opponent is extremely concerning.
 
He'll be fine.

At one point he was clearly looking to pass to someone and NO-ONE MOVED. Fletcher was to the side of him but there was a Norwich player in the way. The obvious thin would have been for Fletcher to move 2.5 yards to receive the ball but HE NEVER MOVED!!!! Anderson had to try a more difficult pass which I think he missed.

He didn't have a great game today. Okay. Anderson does not work with Fletcher alongside him - or at least Fletcher has to be back to his best before I pass judgement. Anderson needs a passer who is on the same wavelength.

Carrick and Cleverley can both work. But Fletcher has NEVER been a great passer of the ball - he can't do the one-touch stuff as his touch just isn't good enough, his mobility isn't good enough. The Fletcher game is about breaking down space in central midfield. In this game we had all of the possession - so I agree it was a bit of a mismatch.

Can't wait to see Cleverley come back in and also looking forward to seeing what player SAF goes with to put into central midfield to accompany/back up Anderson/Cleverley/Carrick. I think he'll use a passing 1-touch type central midfielder (at last I hope so).
 
All 3 United said:
We now have nearly 3 seasons of more or less perfect correlation to prove this.
The amount of times Anderson looks up to play a give and go and his cm
Partner is jogging about the pitch behind an opponent is extremely concerning.
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Nah, you're talking nonsense. Again. Sorry but that's just the way it is.
 
wr8_utd said:
4 goals in his last 7 matches at OT. He's a goal scoring machine

Oh and absolutely dreadful today but I'm sure he'll be fine once he's got Cleverley next to him again.
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They said on SSN that it's 5 in his last 11, whichever stat is correct it's good to see him scoring more.

I didn't see the game today only the highlights but he's got a pass completion of 87% so he couldn't of been that bad surely?
 
I didn't think he was that bad.

Certainly sluggish, but then everyone was really, only gave the ball away outside the attacking third once.

He does need to work on his covering runs though - he goes with the player initially but then sort of like keeps running in a straight line away from them when they drop off to receive the ball, and ends up playing some auxilliary centre back role.
 
I've rewatched the second half (double speed) and decided that this thread is for of exaggeration

Despite what I said above there were a few times in the second half where he had the awareness to leg it back to centreback and shuffle Jones across to RB because Valencia was caught up the pitch.
 
Both our CMs didn't play very well today, but part of the problem came from the wings.

Nani and Park were far too central in the first half, we lacked a lot of width. Evra wasn't getting forward as much as he normally does (guessing SAF had words with him about his being out of position) and Valencia wasn't was forward as Rafa or Jones would have been (probably due to being played out of position and overly cautious).
 
Guys, I think you're all missing the bigger picture here. He scored a goal. With his head.

That's like Valencia scoring with his left foot, or Kanu scoring an overhead kick. It's unnatural!
 
SharkyMcShark said:
I've rewatched the second half (double speed) and decided that this thread is for of exaggeration

Despite what I said above there were a few times in the second half where he had the awareness to leg it back to centreback and shuffle Jones across to RB because Valencia was caught up the pitch.
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I did the same after looking at his Chalkboard and seeing that he completed 76 out of 88 passes. Thinking that can't be accurate...but on review it was. That doesn't mean he was very good or excellent last night, but he wasn't as horrid as it was being made out.

We were ok in possession, just not very effective in the final third, and lacked a cutting edge.
 
IrishLegend said:
Both our CMs didn't play very well today, but part of the problem came from the wings.

Nani and Park were far too central in the first half, we lacked a lot of width. Evra wasn't getting forward as much as he normally does (guessing SAF had words with him about his being out of position) and Valencia wasn't was forward as Rafa or Jones would have been (probably due to being played out of position and overly cautious).
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Park was glued to the touchline in the first half and Norwich's right back had obviously been asked to tuck inside and help mark Hernandez. There was acres of space down Norwich's right flank and Park was wide open most of the time. That's what made the performance of our midfield so frustrating. It wasn't like they were stuck for options.
 
Well they kind of were simply because no one was moving anywhere. I don't think there's much point getting on any individual player's back for that first half performance, when pretty much the whole team had decided to labour around in the heat looking like a slow motion version of Chelsea. but, meh. It's never going to stop anyone on here.

Our more pressing issue is to get Valencia away from that right back spot because he's a liability there and it's more than likely affecting his confidence big time.
 
SharkyMcShark said:
It reminded me of the goal Rooney scored against Arsenal in the FA Cup in 2007/8 but in reverse (there it was Anderson -> Rooney -> net in a similar head volleyball in a crowded area way)
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look a carbon-copy of welbeck opening goal against arsenal.
 
I was delighted he scored (obviously) but I was fuming when Fergie took Nani off and left Anderson on the pitch. Nani looked like the only 1 that might have created something and Anderson was fecking awful. 1 of his worst ever performances for us. His movement was terrible and I don't know the stats but seemed to continually give the ball away.

He was far from the only poor performer obviously and I don't think he's helped when he's paired with Fletcher. I really don't like that combo.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Park was glued to the touchline in the first half and Norwich's right back had obviously been asked to tuck inside and help mark Hernandez. There was acres of space down Norwich's right flank and Park was wide open most of the time. That's what made the performance of our midfield so frustrating. It wasn't like they were stuck for options.
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Park wasn't from where I was sitting, at least in the first half. He stayed wide more than Nani, but still drifted inside or didnt position himself far enough up the pitch.

The first half we were shit because we were too static, the tempo was too slow and lack of width.
 
IrishLegend said:
Park wasn't from where I was sitting, at least in the first half. He stayed wide more than Nani, but still drifted inside or didnt position himself far enough up the pitch.

The first half we were shit because we were too static, the tempo was too slow and lack of width.
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He did at the start, but by the end 20 minutes, Park was never on the touchline.

I actually think Anderson was fine yesterday. A few times he give the ball away, but realistically, there was nothing happening ahead of him. Ferguson mentioned that he and Fletcher had been told to stay deep.

I actually think Hernandez was the worst player yesterday. Constantly offside, and didn't offer much movement.

Got the goal and delighted for him.
 
IrishLegend said:
Park wasn't from where I was sitting, at least in the first half. He stayed wide more than Nani, but still drifted inside or didnt position himself far enough up the pitch.

The first half we were shit because we were too static, the tempo was too slow and lack of width.
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The way Pogue explains it is the way I saw it too. Interesting that we were both watching on the TV and you were at the game.
 
cw1984 said:
I was delighted he scored (obviously) but I was fuming when Fergie took Nani off and left Anderson on the pitch. Nani looked like the only 1 that might have created something and Anderson was fecking awful. 1 of his worst ever performances for us. His movement was terrible and I don't know the stats but seemed to continually give the ball away.

He was far from the only poor performer obviously and I don't think he's helped when he's paired with Fletcher. I really don't like that combo.
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I didn't expect Nani to go off either. Even when he's having a bad game he can usually come up with a piece of magic.
 
Twigginater said:
He did at the start, but by the end 20 minutes, Park was never on the touchline.

I actually think Anderson was fine yesterday. A few times he give the ball away, but realistically, there was nothing happening ahead of him. Ferguson mentioned that he and Fletcher had been told to stay deep.

I actually think Hernandez was the worst player yesterday. Constantly offside, and didn't offer much movement.

Got the goal and delighted for him.
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This is what I've been saying. He wasn't that bad. Yes - he gave the ball away. The problem is with Fletcher he can't do what he's been doing with Cleverley and what Carrick was just starting to learn with him.

With Rooney just coming back and Hernandez there was little movement (in addition Michael Owen has just confirmed on Twitter that half the team have flu!). So lack of passing options means he attempts more difficult passes as players don't make themselves available for the pass.
 
cw1984 said:
The way Pogue explains it is the way I saw it too. Interesting that we were both watching on the TV and you were at the game.
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Without getting all top red (I hate that expression) about it. I think there's a massive difference between watching the game there and on TV. You get a much better view of the overall movement of different players and there positioning as well as their ability to create space.

Ando needs someone like Cleverly next to him, Cleverly is extremely agile and has quick feet and decision making, he also has the ability to find space and always make himself open for the pass. While Fletcher is not as good at that and is more a destroyer.
 
Xavi Fletcher completed 92 [ninety-two] passes at 86%. 15 incomplete out of 107. Surely that wasn't our problem.

Nani's 18 incomplete out of 50 was much more of a problem, before he was dragged off.

Andersoniesta completed 76 [seventy-six] passes, also at 86%. I'll be impressed if any other players outside of Barca bested that this weekend.

We did pick bad times to make our turnovers, but it wasn't as bad as all that.
 
Ando might not play brilliant every week but he is improving and next week might be world class. He just needs games and his quality will shine through
 
Is he going away with Brazil during this international break?
 
I think the real thing here is that people want a leader from Central Midfield.

Not all players are leaders. We feel that Anderson should be a leader even if he isn't naturally a leader. But I wouldn't call Scholes a leader. He was an outstanding player. I think Beckham was a leader in a way. I wouldn't call Giggs & Scholes leaders but I think Keane and Beckham were.

Anderson isn't a natural leader. Like Scholes I think he can become a great player, but e haven't had a leader in Central Midfield since Keane which is some years ago.

Perhaps this is what SAF means when he says he doesn't feel that Sneijder was the right player for that position - or perhaps he was just obfuscating. I don't know.

What I do know is that while I do think that Carrick, Anderson, & Cleverley will produce for us this season - I feel that Pogba is for next season realistically and Morrison perhaps the season after that - we'll see. I do feel the need for another young central midfielder who can keep up with the pace of our speed of play.

While I like Hamsik I'm not sure he's the right type of player, what I've seen of Gotze looks good, and also what I've seen of Gamso looks good too. Not convinced on the Barkley thing. I do think he looks like a lovely player but wonder if we're harking back to the kind of players that were Keane, Robson, Gerrard and midfield generals. There's nothing wrong with that, but the game has moved on and we need people who can ultimately play 1-touch football, creative passing in minute spaces, and the ability to close the space down in Central Midfield. This is what we've been missing in the last few games.
 
peterstorey said:
Anderson is not a CM.
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He never was. He's a competent one. Think SAF did a number on him way back when he was aquired so that he could fit United's style. More often or not it doesn't work fitting a player into the team. Arsene has tasted that bitter medicine as well.

Young Anderson took shots, made runs and could pass decently. The role he's in now there's too much responsibility. He isn't passive enough for it.

At the moment he's the best that we've got.
 
He just needs consistent games under his belt. Eventually he will find his own!! The worst thing I think for Anderson right now is to be caught up in the rotation system.
 
gooDevil said:
Xavi Fletcher completed 92 [ninety-two] passes at 86%. 15 incomplete out of 107. Surely that wasn't our problem.

Nani's 18 incomplete out of 50 was much more of a problem, before he was dragged off.

Andersoniesta completed 76 [seventy-six] passes, also at 86%. I'll be impressed if any other players outside of Barca bested that this weekend.
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The pass completion stats came from the hospital passes or passes to the flanks. The ones that mattered most, like passes to create things in the final 3rd were repeatedly botched.

gooDevil said:
We did pick bad times to make our turnovers, but it wasn't as bad as all that.
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It was awful mate. Just contrast how well we attacked Basel to what we did vs Norwich. As a unit our creative passing just wasn't at the races. It was one of those days. It wasn't even a case of a lack of trying. Nani and co tried and tried but just couldn't pass as well as they normally could. Our passing only really came off for Welbeck's goal all game long.
 
tintedsepia said:
I.....There's nothing wrong with that, but the game has moved on and we need people who can ultimately play 1-touch football, creative passing in minute spaces, and the ability to close the space down in Central Midfield....
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Keane and Robson were ace at that. I can't believe you'd throw in Gerard amongst them...
 
On a more positive note, I do think his poor performances (and I maintain he was poor in his last two games) have been noticeably less poor than his poor performances last season.

Which, combined with the fact his good performances have been better than ever (and he's suddenly started to score goals) all points towards an improvement in his overall game. Which is very encouraging.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
On a more positive note, I do think his poor performances (and I maintain he was poor in his last two games) have been noticeably less poor than his poor performances last season.

Which, combined with the fact his good performances have been better than ever (and he's suddenly started to score goals) all points towards an improvement in his overall game. Which is very encouraging.
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True
 
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