Still think we will fail to beat them
Arsenal are a shambles
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Unbelievable that Wenger was allowed to stay on this summer. Can only assume the board couldn't find a good replacement? The fans were turning on him. Now they're getting another season of spineless shite.
I think that's the operative statement. Those players need not be world class to be effective, just coached well to do their jobs and accept that they could be dropped if they don't. His so called 'belief,' in squad just translated into blind loyalty at the expense of results. You can believe in your team and you can also give them a bloody good kick up the arse(pun intended) and tell them they won't be playing if they don't do their jobs. He's incapable of either response.
It's like having a very likable head teacher with no discipline at a secondary but he lets the teenagers ride roughshod over him.
It's what drives Mourinho up the wall and what he's jealous of.
He stood up once in the first half for about two minutes. Spent the rest of the game on his arse.
A good number of ours came in one season under you know who.
Voldemort?
That's my point.
We had a long way to fall after Fergie left us because he left us at the top.
People have used the Moyes example as a way to warn Arsenal fans of getting rid of Wenger but it doesn't work anymore. They're already experiencing their Moyes style decline.
Even the Twitter admin getting in on it.
Wenger is ensuring a smooth transition. When long serving managers leave it often makes it very difficult for his replacement, as we saw ourselves. But if Wenger leaves them at rock bottom the incoming manager can lift them out of the quagmire and gain instant authority and respect. So if you think about it Wenger is actually being very astute and putting the club's long term interests first.
I don't know how things will pan out for them, maybe they'll throw away their Europa League games in the hope that they'll take advantage of everybody else around them having CL football midweek. This might help them place themselves in a good position for a top four finish in the second half of the season. Who knows? But even then, it will be like our first season under LvG (no European football, relatively comfortable top four finish). Wenger will earn more time in order to accomplish... what exactly?
That's their main problem, there's doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel now, does it? It's sad because we're talking about a manager who brought so much to English football but it's true. He's led Arsenal to the best period in their entire history and his sides, for more than a decade, pushed Ferguson so hard and to the point of creating one of the best United sides ever. That's how competitive they were back in the day.
I think that Wenger's time is running out because he won't be able to hide his tactical stubbornness anymore behind consecutive top four finishes. We (United) are finally finding our footing in the post SAF era and hopefully midtable finishes will become a rarity. City and Chelsea will always have more money to spend than Arsenal while Liverpool and Spurs look strong and on the rise.
It's amazing that he deployed a midfield of Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil (cutting inside) and expected to dominate the midfield battle against one of the best pressing teams in the league. It's also amazing that he played Welbeck, who's better at opening up spaces for others to score goals, and insisted on him for so long when his players looked absolutely lost on the pitch. It's beyond belief that he shifted to a three man defense without any idea whatsoever about how he's going to defend the wide areas in his own third. If i was Holding yesterday, i would honestly tell Wenger to feck off at half time. Leicester gave them a hard time by just playing long diagonals in exactly the same areas. But all this doesn't seem to matter because, on his mind, Wenger thinks that his team is good enough to dominate every game.
His "plan" is so thorough and well devised that it left out of the starting xi his most competent forward and his best summer signing and it made room for Ox as a wingback on the right and Bellerin (wrong footed) on the left and a left footed FB in the center back position. Never mind the persistence on Xhaka when your game is based on short passing through the middle... It was so bad that even the commentators focused more on Arsenal than Liverpool's good display on the pitch.
I believe there's not a manager at the highest level who's been more affected by the introduction of high pressing/aggressive defending on the ball and good possession sides to such degree in modern football than Wenger. The former puts his high lines and his "made of lace" midfields to the sword and the latter makes his overall tactics look like the laughing stock of both English and European football.
That's their main problem, there's doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel now, does it? It's sad because we're talking about a manager who brought so much to English football but it's true. He's led Arsenal to the best period in their entire history and his sides, for more than a decade, pushed Ferguson so hard and to the point of creating one of the best United sides ever. That's how competitive they were back in the day.
I think that Wenger's time is running out because he won't be able to hide his tactical stubbornness anymore behind consecutive top four finishes. We (United) are finally finding our footing in the post SAF era and hopefully midtable finishes will become a rarity. City and Chelsea will always have more money to spend than Arsenal while Liverpool and Spurs look strong and on the rise.
It's amazing that he deployed a midfield of Xhaka, Ramsey and Ozil (cutting inside) and expected to dominate the midfield battle against one of the best pressing teams in the league. It's also amazing that he played Welbeck, who's better at opening up spaces for others to score goals, and insisted on him for so long when his players looked absolutely lost on the pitch. It's beyond belief that he shifted to a three man defense without any idea whatsoever about how he's going to defend the wide areas in his own third. If i was Holding yesterday, i would honestly tell Wenger to feck off at half time. Leicester gave them a hard time by just playing long diagonals in exactly the same areas. But all this doesn't seem to matter because, on his mind, Wenger thinks that his team is good enough to dominate every game.
His "plan" is so thorough and well devised that it left out of the starting xi his most competent forward and his best summer signing and it made room for Ox as a wingback on the right and Bellerin (wrong footed) on the left and a left footed FB in the center back position. Never mind the persistence on Xhaka when your game is based on short passing through the middle... It was so bad that even the commentators focused more on Arsenal than Liverpool's good display on the pitch.
I believe there's not a manager at the highest level who's been more affected by the introduction of high pressing/aggressive defending on the ball and good possession sides to such degree in modern football than Wenger. The former puts his high lines and his "made of lace" midfields to the sword and the latter makes his overall tactics look like the laughing stock of both English and European football.
You slid from being Champions to being mid-table under Moyes. What is the worst that could happen to us? We already don't play the CL, we have not won the league since 2004, we're garbage against any sort of proper European team and our team is already in a state of shambles.
Well, i don't know about you, but if i was an Arsenal fan i would not be happy with the current state of the club. Never mind the trashing they got yesterday, losing one game to a rival can hurt, but it's not the end of the world, but let's look at some of the trends that have been going on there for an odd 10 years
1. Failing to invest in players, while other clubs splash the cash for big signings
2. Not winning the league for almost 15 years, hell the last couple of years they have not even mounted a serious challenge, and that is despite the other big clubs going through some turmoil themselves
3. Failing to address deficiencies in the squad time and time again
4. Constantly losing their best players, often to direct league rivals
If Arsenal were a mid-table club, i'm sure the fans would be happy with regular CL play and a occasional cup trophy here and there, but that's not the case, Arsenal is one of the biggest clubs in England with a huge new stadium, a big international fanbase and a healthy economy. They should be a lot better than the sorry state they are in now.
Wenger in many ways revolutionized the PL when he first came here and brought with him a lot of fresh ideas. Today though he seems terribly outdated and not willing/able to change with the times. The board also needs some criticism here as it is quite clear they are more concerned with making money then they are to win stuff and run a successful club.
Right now me and you can set up a team with some basic common sense and know-how and beat any side Wenger puts out; never mind an astute manager like Mourinho who will make sure United crush us.
The surprising thing yesterday were the tactics and basic mistakes being made by the players. Salah scored from poor defending shortly after he missed a one-on-one resulting from poor defending. I can't see them getting top 4 again this year following which they'll lose Sanchez and Ozil (although no great loss imo), which will surely see the end of Arsene.
Whoever comes into replace him (whenever that is) has got a hell of a rebuilding job on their hands.
Whoever comes into replace him (whenever that is) has got a hell of a rebuilding job on their hands.
I can't reply to that 8-2 video yet because I am still a 'newbie'.
It is Incredible that we beat them 8-2 with some of them players.
Evans, Welbeck, Cleverley, Young, Anderson, Smalling.
Evans was actually a good player then I suppose.
Fergie really did know how to get the best out of a team.
It is Incredible that we beat them 8-2 with some of them players.
Evans, Welbeck, Cleverley, Young, Anderson, Smalling.
Evans was actually a good player then I suppose.
Fergie really did know how to get the best out of a team.
The transfer market has gone bonkers this summer, so those fees paint a misleading picture. Arsenal have still spent money that Spurs and Arsenal can only dream of since Fergie retired. Which is a big change from when their "lack of investment" excuse last carried some weight.
That's the killer. They pictured dream-land when Fergie finally retired and the club shook off the stadium debts and got out the cheque book. Instead it's exactly the same old shit as when they really didn't have money to spend.
They might lose Sanchez now even before then.
Fine? Hard to say what that even means. Arsenal fans certainly wouldn't agree that the definition of it is fighting to even secure a top four place.
You have a point about the Arsenal getting murdered in at least a game or two each season nowadays (8-2, Wenger's 1000th game etc). You just don't see the other top team's heads going and giving in during a losing battle in the same way anywhere near as often, rotten mentality at that club.
I think they'd do well by selling Sanchez abroad, try to offload Ozil and get as much as they can for Ox. Reinvest that cash in signing promising players who are hungry. They won't be competing for top class players (for instance, why would Asensio go there) but they can still do some business and, more importantly, shift the dynamic in their squad. Could take this season as a bit of a write-off but prepare properly for the next few.
Way before football found me. I stumbled onto European football in my late teens in the mid-90s, thanks in large part to the US hosting the World Cup.
It's not being said.
They spent £100m on three players last season.
It's looking like they burnt the money.
They spent £100m on three players last season.
It's looking like they burnt the money.
Pity we have to wait until December to play them..
Top 4? It'd be a miracle if we are Top 6 at the end of the season!
3 games is too small a sample size to say that. Arsenal was beaten 8-2 by us and then went on to get into top 4. Agreed that the circumstances are difficult now, but still 3 games is too early.
If we end up signing Lemar after Wenger said that Monaco wouldn't sell, the club will look ridiculous.
yup. Granit is shocking, Lucas and mustafi are non existent and are being sold
Top 4 is even more competitive these days, you would have us, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and then Arsenal competing for 4 spots.
why are they selling mustafi?
Because of Wenger.
Bizarre isn't it? He makes errors now and then but he was only signed a year ago for a lot of money. He's the second best CB at the club as well after Koscielny.
I don't really understand a lot of things going on at Arsenal at the moment.
Exactly.
Jose has always been at clubs where success is the bare minimum. And has lost jobs after finishing second.
Wenger has specialised in failure for a decade now and no one bats an eyelid.
I also think Jose has more drive than Arsene. Even if he had a board like the Arsenal one, he wouldnt stand for mediocrity. That could be another reason why Jose never lasts long anywhere as he kicks up a fuss over poor perfomances.
I think Ozil's comments about Jose and how he tough he was on him (but also the begrudging respect he had for him as a winner) shows the difference between the two men. Wenger is old Yeller at this point. He needs to be led to the back of the shed for his own good.
I think he had a rift with Wenger. No other reason he would leave after 1 year especially after they sold Gabriel. It's mind boggling really. They are conceding goals left, right and centre and instead of strengthening at the back, he is selling defenders.
Nothing to see here. Expect a long run of good results because the Gunners are always scintillating when nothing is expected of them.
Wanted Martial..his excuse was Monaco told him he wasn't for sale.
Utd sign him.
Same scenario here.
Did Wenger fall out with Monaco at any point?
Utd sign him.
Same scenario here.
Did Wenger fall out with Monaco at any point?
Was/is Joel Campbell any worse than most of the rubbish they're current serving up?
Did that Perez lad really get a fair crack? He looked productive whenever he played for Arsenal. Never seemed to get a decent run of games. He'd score a brace and then get dropped immediately.
@Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 ?
Did that Perez lad really get a fair crack? He looked productive whenever he played for Arsenal. Never seemed to get a decent run of games. He'd score a brace and then get dropped immediately.
@Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 ?
Arsenal are clearly a lost cause. Chelsea were poor against Burnley but no one really thought they'd capitulate and be terrible this season. Arsenal have no desire, they're playing with no solid game plan like we did with Moyes, their best players just can't be arsed, they lack quality in most areas and they're losing players without replacing them. It's a shambles.
Still don't think Arsenal will be terrible this season. This thread literally gets made every year and they've won 3 trophies in the last 4 years, and until last season, finished in the top 4.
But I recanted the last post you quoted
Ashley Young's goals were brilliant in that 8-2 win.
Typical Wenger really.
Unless the player scores a hatrick every match, they won't get a look in.
Unless they are one of his pets, at which point they can just serve up shit week in week out and still get picked.