Replacing the Neymar money with Dembele, Coutinho and Paulinho without improving their defence won't help them. Their first bit of business should've been looking at their defence and build from the back, then look at the superstar signings.
Barcelona 2017/18
- Thread starter Peyroteo
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Was at the match last night and it was a little scary how easy it was for a Madrid side minus Ronaldo to comfortably outplay them. Messi looked bored and Suarez was little to no threat, worrying thing is though take them 2 out the side and the rest of the squad is hardly frightening.
I took a lot of flak here a few years ago for starting this thread. When creating it, I underestimated Messi's sheer genius and his ability to practically carry his team over the line when required. Adding Suarez and Neymar helped a little, too. However, my main points in that OP still stand: poor recruitment; tiki-taka being neutralised; defensive frailties; La Masia drying up; players' hunger diminishing.
They are in real, real trouble.
They are in real, real trouble.
Am I correct to say that they've got big financial problems as well? Without the Neymar money the wouldn't be able to sign Coutinhos left foot?
They don't have financial problems. They lack flexibility atm because of the plan for renovations to the facilities(camo nou, mibi estadi, palau), espai barca
That, and a massive wage bill
Yes you're a genius. I especially like your point about Thiago not being up to the standard of Fabregas. Let me make a "the decline of Real Madrid" thread, so I can bump it in a couple of years and look smart, too.
Vermaelen was a dodgy transfer...Didn't he fail his medical? And they still bought him? Yes, bought him (15 million pounds).
Arda Turan saying he went to Barcelona because he was tired of running - red flag there, already.
Douglas is part of Neymar and his fathers deal, can't be anything else.
There was a time where the anti-Madrid notion claimed Modric was a worse signing than Song...Wow.
Paulinho is a signing that - according to rumours - helps Bartomeu and his chinese business partners (who also own the club Paulinho belonged to). They invested in some of his companies and as part of the payback, he buys Paulinho to Barcelona, instead of paying directly with his company. It actually would make sense, I seriously doubt Paulinho fits the famous 'Barca DNA'. It sure seems to be a signing made for reasons that belong behind the curtains.
The Nuñistas, Rosell&Bartomeu have piece by piece destroyed a foundation that was built based on Cruyff's legacy, and the foundation from their recent dynasty. There is no surprise of why Nuñez is in jail at the moment, Rosell as well, and Bartomeu going to trial (Neymar-gate still haunts).
If we look at their antagonists, Real Madrid, they have already prepared for their next generation with very clever signings of upcoming stars - now it is all about letting them to develop to fulfill those shoes. And they don't seem so different without Cristiano Ronaldo, they still look like a machinery. It is a bit uncanny to think how much more poor the state of Barca could be by now if they were without Messi.
There should be a re-election/vote of dissent among cules soon ?! Surely this board can't continue.
Arda Turan saying he went to Barcelona because he was tired of running - red flag there, already.
Douglas is part of Neymar and his fathers deal, can't be anything else.
There was a time where the anti-Madrid notion claimed Modric was a worse signing than Song...Wow.
Paulinho is a signing that - according to rumours - helps Bartomeu and his chinese business partners (who also own the club Paulinho belonged to). They invested in some of his companies and as part of the payback, he buys Paulinho to Barcelona, instead of paying directly with his company. It actually would make sense, I seriously doubt Paulinho fits the famous 'Barca DNA'. It sure seems to be a signing made for reasons that belong behind the curtains.
The Nuñistas, Rosell&Bartomeu have piece by piece destroyed a foundation that was built based on Cruyff's legacy, and the foundation from their recent dynasty. There is no surprise of why Nuñez is in jail at the moment, Rosell as well, and Bartomeu going to trial (Neymar-gate still haunts).
If we look at their antagonists, Real Madrid, they have already prepared for their next generation with very clever signings of upcoming stars - now it is all about letting them to develop to fulfill those shoes. And they don't seem so different without Cristiano Ronaldo, they still look like a machinery. It is a bit uncanny to think how much more poor the state of Barca could be by now if they were without Messi.
There should be a re-election/vote of dissent among cules soon ?! Surely this board can't continue.
You agree with me, then?
Cheers.
P.S. I never said Thiago wasn't up to the standard of Fabregas (even if I did, is that so preposterous? What has Thiago achieved in the game thus far? Fabregas is one of the most supremely talented and supremely decorated footballers of his generation). I mentioned the collective not being as talented as the Pique-Fabregas-etc. generation. Well done for missing the point entirely.
Clubs have ups and downs it's always the same. You could create a "xxx's decline" thread for every club if two pre season matches half a decade later are satisfying proof for you.
I hope Messi becomes angry and wants to prove himself to the world once again with a brilliant season.
What makes me laugh is when we lost to Madrid recently it is because ourselves & other English sides are inferior to the best in Europe, but when Barcelona are far more easily beaten it is a one off & well be sorted when they get their marquee signings. The truth was the declining signs of Barcelona were all to clear last season, only propped up by their friends in UEFA in the Champions league. Well may it continue.
Felt like Barca are still in preseason form. I'd expect them to improve quite soon even without signings but of course there will be a few.
They are in big trouble in my opinion. They have continually relied on the strength of their squad; the likes of xavi, busquets, iniesta and of course messi, then later the MSN forward line to deliver results, whilst frequently changing their manager and having little planning for the future. The result is a disjointed group, now without Neymar, all of their best players in their 30's and they are scrambling to sign Dembele and Coutinho for around 250m.
At some point barca have to go back to the drawing board and build a squad again, like how Jose has with us. The brilliance of messi can only take you so far and they will need to look at building a unit like madrid have in place. I think they need a 3 year plan, but it may take something crazy like a 4th place finish to bring sbout the change they need.
At some point barca have to go back to the drawing board and build a squad again, like how Jose has with us. The brilliance of messi can only take you so far and they will need to look at building a unit like madrid have in place. I think they need a 3 year plan, but it may take something crazy like a 4th place finish to bring sbout the change they need.
Barca are heading back to the 1999-2004 era. Madird couldnt live with the la masia graduates all coming through at once and had to wait for that barca cycle to end, now that the golden generation have moved on or in decline real will get back to domination over barcelona. Barcas transfer policy has been dire over the years whilst real have been very clever with their recruitments. Barca can hope and pray that coutinho and dembele can save them even though they look weak in midfield and defence. With the financial backing of the government and the royal families support as always things look very rosy for real.
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They havent had to build a team for the best part of 10/12 years. The pieces were all in place and failing to improve the squad year on year since neymar joined has cost them. They are quite clearly falling behind madrid, time to build a team.
I think his focus will be to carry Argentina to the World Cup, and I can see it happening.
Barcelona transfers in since Neymar joined in 2013, and how I'd rate them fwiw
Alex Song **
Jordi Alba ****
Ter Stegen***
Alex Vidal *
Thomas Vermaelen *
Jeremy Mathieu **
Luis Suarez *****
Ivan Rakitic ****
Claudio Bravo ***
Denis Suarez **
Borja Lopez ?
Arda Turan *
Samuel Umtiti **
Lucas Digne **
Andre Gomes *
Paco Alcacer *
Gerard Deulofeu ?
Paulinho ? (*)
They have clearly really struggled to recruit in defence. In fact I think only Suarez, Alba, Rakitic and possibly Ter-Stegen are of the standard required. Its a pretty poor record for an ageing squad that need overhauling.
Alex Song **
Jordi Alba ****
Ter Stegen***
Alex Vidal *
Thomas Vermaelen *
Jeremy Mathieu **
Luis Suarez *****
Ivan Rakitic ****
Claudio Bravo ***
Denis Suarez **
Borja Lopez ?
Arda Turan *
Samuel Umtiti **
Lucas Digne **
Andre Gomes *
Paco Alcacer *
Gerard Deulofeu ?
Paulinho ? (*)
They have clearly really struggled to recruit in defence. In fact I think only Suarez, Alba, Rakitic and possibly Ter-Stegen are of the standard required. Its a pretty poor record for an ageing squad that need overhauling.
Three stars for Ter Stegen is a bit much.
Honestly, I don't think some of these signings were bad on paper. For some reason they haven't found their pre-Barca form. Arda Turan was excellent at Atletico, Paco Alcacer showed lots of potential at Valencia. They didn't fit in the team though. Umtiti is a good buy for them by the way.
No, he said he would do it for free.
They've made some questionable transfers in recent years, while other promising players haven't worked out the way they would have hoped, but I think it's early to write the obituaries for Barca. I think getting stung with the Neymar transfer and watching Real Madrid's recent sweep of trophies might just give them the kick up the arse they need to be more aggressive in the transfer market. They are one of the most appealing clubs in the world to the best players around, so they need to start acting like it and using their money more wisely.
There's not many players that would say no to Barca, so now they need to go out and get the Suarez and Neymars of the world, rather than just resting on the strengths of Messi.
It's not going to be easy though. Real Madrid look to have set themselves up for Ronaldo's demise a lot better than Barca have Messi's.
There's not many players that would say no to Barca, so now they need to go out and get the Suarez and Neymars of the world, rather than just resting on the strengths of Messi.
It's not going to be easy though. Real Madrid look to have set themselves up for Ronaldo's demise a lot better than Barca have Messi's.
Bartomeu doesn't give a feck about Barca, tbh. If he had cared about them he would have already bought them a whole new midfield.
Since you made that thread in 2013, Barca won 3 La Liga titles in 5 years (in 2013, 2015, and 2016), 3 Copa del Reys (2015, 2016, 2017), made the treble and won other trophies as well.
That was not a decline. This looks like the end of an era though, and the start of a Madrid dominating cycle in Spain.
I don't mean to over simplify but this Barca decline is the natural order of things. Clubs rise and fall as surely as night follows day.
A few years ago Madrid was in decline. They couldn't go beyond the second round of the Champions League and winning the La Liga was a big struggle for them. I think Jose led the come back. They started getting to the SF stage of the Champions League and won the league again. Ancellotti took them to another level in Europe by winning the La Decima and the Zidane has turned them into the most dangerous team in world football once again, winning the CL back to back and on course to winning it and the La Liga once again.
On the other hand, while Madrid was 'down', Barca rose to world dominance. Led by Lionel Messi, they became almost unbeatable, winning trophy after trophy.
Now, things are changing for them. They look so vulnerable now. The decline is obvious.
That's the way football is.
A few years ago Madrid was in decline. They couldn't go beyond the second round of the Champions League and winning the La Liga was a big struggle for them. I think Jose led the come back. They started getting to the SF stage of the Champions League and won the league again. Ancellotti took them to another level in Europe by winning the La Decima and the Zidane has turned them into the most dangerous team in world football once again, winning the CL back to back and on course to winning it and the La Liga once again.
On the other hand, while Madrid was 'down', Barca rose to world dominance. Led by Lionel Messi, they became almost unbeatable, winning trophy after trophy.
Now, things are changing for them. They look so vulnerable now. The decline is obvious.
That's the way football is.
I think Barca's decline cause be simplified to them being absolutely awful in the transfer market. If they'd actually invested well then they wouldn't be in this position.
Absolutely, we have seen it here, similarly when the old guard of academy graduates who had won everything there was to win, and knew what the club was about, departed. Obviously we also lost the stability of the GOAT manager too. It may take Barca 3/4 years to get back to winning the league and CL, but they do still have messi..
But could have been easily avoided with some good signings.
Teams cannot be at the top indefinitely in competitive leagues
I know, but Pep could do well in accepting a challenge like that. I personally would like to see it, and at Roma specifically.
I see Roma as a bit of a sleeping giant (it's been their fate so far during their existence), but that can quickly change if Roma is successful in the immediate future. With Monchi, it's an attempt at it. Along with him bringing players through, Pep could be the right coach to do a Sevilla 2.0 in the Italian capital. Not now, but in a few years.
But yeah, it's probably not going to happen anyway. I do think Pep will return to Barca one day though.
Barcelona is really a Depressed/Downcast team.
They desperately need new players.
They desperately need new players.
Dembele will obviously be the wide forward acquisition and Coutinho will replace Iniesta in the midfield. The latter might happen as time goes on and not immediately, but I'm convinced Coutinho in the long term is being brought in as a midfield player/10, and not to play wide as in replacing Neymar.
They also need a new centre-back too though. They should go after Aymeric Laporte.
They also need a new centre-back too though. They should go after Aymeric Laporte.
I know Balague is not popular around these parts but he does make a really good point, even if obvious.
Barca are making Messi look ordinary.
Barca are making Messi look ordinary.
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While obviously the problem is caused by bad planning and purchase of players, I think Neymar leaving was a massive psychological blow to the entire organisation. They are still reeling.
This. Messi is ageing and Neymar was their future. Add Iniesta declining + neglecting their defence. I would draw the parallel with SAF's pumping the life out of Scholes and Giggs with no real reinforcments in CM. They should have real big balls of fire to sell Messi
They are fecked.
Shit just got real. Again!
And defense