With Welbeck out for the Swansea game I would have Berba starting with Rooney, I highly doubt we'll see this though.
Berbatov | Fulham player
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Oh how we could have used him to run up the score against weak teams this season. Look at the fecking goal difference!
Good point...
I agree Colin.
I like Berbatov as a player, and am mystified as to what has gone on this season.
But, a striker adds value by continually grabbing a goal, and whilst he was good last season, he'd have been incredible had those 14 goals been the winners in 10 games rather than only contributing to the result of 4!
I think that's why some people may play down his contribution to the overall season.
Scott the Red @R_o_M
Last season, Berbatov scored in 48% of the games that he started. This was a better rate than 13 of the other 18 top scorers.
Scott the Red @R_o_M
Also, Carlos Tevez never scored in as many different games for us as Berba did last season.
Last season, Berbatov scored in 48% of the games that he started. This was a better rate than 13 of the other 18 top scorers.
Scott the Red @R_o_M
Also, Carlos Tevez never scored in as many different games for us as Berba did last season.
Berbatov's been terrific at Old Trafford since the start of last season (10/11). He's scored 22 league goals in 17 starts at Old Trafford.
This season, he's scored 6 league goals in 3 starts at Old Trafford. Welbeck has scored 6 goals from about 12 league starts at Old Trafford, Chicharito's managed only 2 goals. Welbeck and Chicharito managed to score 8 league goals in home fixtures from about 20 starts between them. One might wonder whether our GD wouldn't have been better had Berbatov played a bit more, especially against 10 men QPR or similar teams.
This season, he's scored 6 league goals in 3 starts at Old Trafford. Welbeck has scored 6 goals from about 12 league starts at Old Trafford, Chicharito's managed only 2 goals. Welbeck and Chicharito managed to score 8 league goals in home fixtures from about 20 starts between them. One might wonder whether our GD wouldn't have been better had Berbatov played a bit more, especially against 10 men QPR or similar teams.
So why didn't we? If it's down to Fergie's petulance, it could have cost us the title.
It's really surprising that he didnt play at all, esp. during the time Chicharito and Welbs were off the pace. Hope he plays this Sunday
You really love the Berbs don't you!
I think that other factors cost us the title (assuming that we have lost it!) but I agree in that the Berbs is more likely to put the ball in the back on the net against the Wigan's and QPR's of this world than Welbeck.
Also the guy is on 80k a week and doing nothing, that can't be considered as 'value', more of a shameful waste.
Yes I really do love him, although I have to admit that it's not exactly worked out how I initially thought it would. Tbh I think he's been treated shamefully. I realise that Rooney and Welbeck are the way forward ( copyright Redcafe ) but to think he's not even been on the bench is ridiculous for a player like that. We've laboured to quite a few wins, and I can't believe a mercurial player like Berbatov wouldn't have at least created chances in some matches this season.
His goal scoring record in the games that he played this year has been superb too.
He has never been great coming off the bench though which is why I think if he is not in the starting eleven then SAF is inclined to leave him out of the matchday squad. I think that it all started with him walking out at the CL final but I would imagine that something else has happened this year.
To be cynical, perhaps SAF is giving him the cold shoulder so he will leave in the summer for a fee (I am assuming that we extended his contract for the one year option) instead of hanging on for another year on big wages and then leaving for nothing at the end of 2012/13.
He and fergie have clearly had a falling out.
You dont just get dropped like that because you are out of form.
You dont just get dropped like that because you are out of form.
If he and Fergie have had a falling out, it means he's putting his own pique before the good of the team then
Our attack certainly was faultless against Wigan wasn't it?back at you
Reading comprehension problem?
That's not my point. Of course the attack is not faultless, but he's not being sold because our attack is soo good that we can do without him(like you implied through silly sarcasm), he's being sold because he just doesn't fit United's system.If Fergie didn't want to play him he wouldn't have put him on the bench at all so I doubt they had a falling out.
But we're in the habit of keeping the players who have had big fallouts with the manager as viable options? What would be the point.
I just can't imagine Berbatov being active enough to have a falling out with Fergie. He's never seemed the type to talk back to the manager, and all his interviews have suggested a very professional player.
I think Fergie just wanted to prove he could beat City without spending. And in his head, that meant using a youth player (Welbeck) and a bargain player (Chicarito) ahead of our record signing. I literally can't come up with another reason.
Because Berbatov, today, is better than both of the youngsters. And Fergie was so willing to rely on older, more experienced heads like Park, Giggs and Scholes - but not the Berbs.
I think Fergie just wanted to prove he could beat City without spending. And in his head, that meant using a youth player (Welbeck) and a bargain player (Chicarito) ahead of our record signing. I literally can't come up with another reason.
Because Berbatov, today, is better than both of the youngsters. And Fergie was so willing to rely on older, more experienced heads like Park, Giggs and Scholes - but not the Berbs.
Let's keep him out of this. Half the player he used to be since he started shagging Shakira.
I can never imagine Sir Alex using that logic. I genuinely believe that Sir Alex thought of giving the chance to the two young strikers with massive potential. Sir Alex has always been fond of young talented players with hunger and something to prove. I think its more likely that Sir Alex thought of not hindering the progress of Hernandez and Welbeck. Like someone said, earlier in the thread, that every game for Berbatov meant less game time and opportunity for our two young strikers.
Berbatov is a model professional and has handled the situation better than most of the other players. I wish him the best of luck and thank him for his commitment and contribution.
I know it's not your data but that seems like weak analysis to me. A quick look at the table he made on RoM shows a lot of errors. To get the 48% it seems like he's counted one less start for Berba and used two goals he scored from the bench last season, one of which came in the community shield, something he doesn't appear to count for any of our other strikers. I assume it's meant to be league only analysis too, otherwise the figures show Berba scored in 31% of his starts last season.
If it is league only then he scored in 42% of his starts, which is a better rate of 8 of the other 18 United top scorers he compares, 6 if you include penalties - assuming his data for those other players is correct.
Reading comprehension problem?
Silly sarcasm seems to be the only to get through sometimes - and I didn't seem to have any problem with reading comprehension in any of the O or A levels I managed to pass.
My point is that our brilliant attack ( occasionally ) could well have been assisted by Berbatov. Is it that difficult to understand? Yet he wasn't even on the bench
Or the more simple explanation: Fergie doesn't feel Berbatov is effective enough to start for us ahead of Welbeck and/or Rooney and also recognises his lack of impact coming off the bench. The European Cup final suggests this is the case, as we all know he is a better footballer than Owen.
There is no point putting someone on the bench unless you plan on using them and Fergie doesn't seem like the kind of manager to merely put him on the bench out of sentimentality.
There is no point putting someone on the bench unless you plan on using them and Fergie doesn't seem like the kind of manager to merely put him on the bench out of sentimentality.
Good for you
Well the manager, who knows waay better than you do and isn't speaking from blind fanboy/fangirlism obviously thinks the number of games or situations where he'll come in handy isn't worth keeping him with Welbeck and Hernandez in the team, it's something you'll have to learn to deal with. Maybe more silly sarcasm will help you with that?
Good for you
Well the manager, who knows waay better than you do and isn't speaking from blind fanboy/fangirlism obviously thinks the number of games or situations where he'll come in handy isn't worth keeping him with Welbeck and Hernandez in the team, it's something you'll have to learn to deal with. Maybe more silly sarcasm will help you with that?
The manager is also prone to the occasional error in judgement. If he'd not been so bloody greedy in wanting the siring rights for that damned horse he was given, we'd probably not have been sold to the Glazers - so don't tell me he's perfect!
Berbatov debate always makes me laugh.
There was no falling out and Welbeck and Hernandez playing because they are the future may be somewhat true, but the real reason why Berbatov hasn't played very often is because of Wayne Rooney.
Rooney and Berbatov like to play and are best when playing behind a striker. Obviously, Rooney is better because of the work he puts in when we are off the ball and has somewhat masked our midfield problems. We need to start Rooney in every game we can and we have, and Berbatov has made limited appearances for us because of it. They both want to do the same thing and as a result, they haven't formed a very good partnership. This season they've only played together as a front 2 partnership against Newcastle. The few starts Berba has managed, was when Rooney was out of the side completely or on the bench.
Rooney and Berbatov like to play and are best when playing behind a striker. Obviously, Rooney is better because of the work he puts in when we are off the ball and has somewhat masked our midfield problems. We need to start Rooney in every game we can and we have, and Berbatov has made limited appearances for us because of it. They both want to do the same thing and as a result, they haven't formed a very good partnership. This season they've only played together as a front 2 partnership against Newcastle. The few starts Berba has managed, was when Rooney was out of the side completely or on the bench.
Personally don't see how Rooney on the left with Nani/Valencia wide right wouldn't have accomodated for Berbatov occupying the creative role behind Welbeck's pace or Hernandez's predatory instinct. Especially against weaker opposition - might have produced a few more goals and points along the way. Rooney is better in that creative hole but I'm sure with a player like Berbatov spraying passes around Rooney could perform on the left. Not advocating this for all matches but surely against sides that would prefer to play nine men behind the ball.
We have a very good points total and goals scored. Why would you stick rooney on the left?
What a foolish post.
Because Rooney has never played on the left flank to accomodate a player...
As I stated, against certain opposition not all. It was simply a response to how in fact Berbatov-Rooney could work together.
But I bow to your stupendous opinion. Probably makes you feel a bigger man to post.
Yes he accommodated Ronaldo. I think that is fair enough.
What about Valencia, young and nani? It would mean 2 of them miss out as well
Was more in regards to when Valencia was out injured and Young was in terrible form. I do feel Berbatov should have received more chances during those times when players were out injured and others were not performing.
the sooner he goes the better. thank you.
Remind me again why I'm supposed to think you don't have a comprehension problem?
Kindly point out where I said Fergie's perfect and makes no mistakes. Of course makes mistakes, but does he know waaay better than EricaNo7 a user on the internet who's posts on Berbatov always seems to be tinged with fangirl bias? I think he does and by his judgement(and what we can see), he feels Berbatov doesn't work with the team.Remind me again why I'm supposed to think you don't have a comprehension problem?
She went a little bit over the top maybe, but she's got every right to be pissed off. Not only by Berba's constant omissions, but also by quite astonishing amount of abuse thrown in his direction as well as utterly underrating him by some people here.
Haters say they tell facts, but they stick only to the ones that suit them. The fact is, Berbatov since last season has been a fantastic player for us. He was banging them in for fun till he got benched for good last season, this time round he's scored 9 in 12 starts in all comps (7 in 6 starts in PL).
Before that, he wasn't what you call fantastic signing by any means, ok. He wasn't what we thought he would be but to call him a flop or total failure is bordering on insanity.
if Berbs dosn't fit in with Rooney, then why was he bought? It wouldn't be the first time Fergie has misjudged a player's place in the team. He may be the gretatest of all time but still not perfect
It's absolute bollox about berbatov not working off the ball because it has been shown he does as much if not more than other players playing regularly. Rooney is a protected species on here but some of his passing has been appalling recently. It just defies logic that Berbatov would have less to contribute than Fergie has allowed.
Having said that, I don't think it's a good idea to suddenly bring him in when he knows he's out of the door in a couple of weeks.
When he first came, Rooney wouldn't have exactly been viewed as a partner for him. Ronaldo was in the team as well which obviously changed the complexion of things. I don't think Fergie would have envisaged us planning to sell Ronaldo at the end of that season. Where he was supposed to fit into the team, I don't know. You'd have to ask the boss that. He obviously had some sort of plan for him, but it obviously never really worked out in the end.
I'm split as to what my overall thoughts are about the Berbatov transfer. He was important last season and a large part of why we actually won the title, however I still think that, on reflection, the money we spent on him may have been more useful if it was put to signing a central midfielder, which we could've done with then and more evidently need now. Still, I won't complain as he's done some really good things for us in his time here.
still a bit mystifying that he isn't deemed to be worthy of a part of the effort by Fergie, when there have been games when he would've clearly helped. Perhaps he hasn't lived up to the highest expectations but some of that has been out of his control.
This is what I don't understand
It's bewildering because not only was he arguably our best forward last year, he has also performed well in the limited chances he's been afforded this season.
Exactly, which makes me wonder how many more goals we would have scored had he had the chance to perform. To sideline him completely is crazy