Berbatov | Fulham player

EricaNo7 said:
I agree with all these points. The last year must have been hell for him. I still don't understand what he did to deserve such appalling treatment.
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I agree with you entirely, as I have with your previous posts in this thread.

I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes or what SAF's reasons are for the decisions he has made. But in a sense it doesnt matter. The only relevant point is that this will go down as one of the biggest transfer mistakes the big man (SAF that is, not EBJT) has made.
 
finneh said:
The most bizarre thing about the deluded cult of Berbatov lovers is that they still feel we would have scored 8 additional goals with Berbatov in the team, whilst at the same time not conceding any more. They clearly know much more about team selection than Sir Alex.
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With hindsight maybe :)

I still haven't forgiven SAF for not starting Sparky in the 1995 match v West Ham. He's not infallible, you know!!
 
EricaNo7 said:
With hindsight maybe :)

I still haven't forgiven SAF for not starting Sparky in the 1995 match v West Ham. He's not infallible, you know!!
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You must admit though it is very strange that outside of a small pocket of United fans who think he is the second coming he isn't really rated anymore? Clearly Fergie doesn't hugely rate him and the fact that no-one has even put in a cheeky £5m bid would suggest that not many other managers rate him.

In terms of the 8 goal difference I don't think Van Persie last season would've got an additional 8 goals over and above our total of 89, let alone Berbatov.
 
How can you say with such conviction who has or hasnt shown an interest in him? For all we know we have had numerous bids which we have turned down. I am not saying this has happened, just that we cant know. So to say he is suddenly not rated by anyone aside from a small pocket of United fans is pure conjecture.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
How can you say with such conviction who has or hasnt shown an interest in him? For all we know we have had numerous bids which we have turned down. I am not saying this has happened, just that we cant know. So to say he is suddenly not rated by anyone aside from a small pocket of United fans is pure conjecture.
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Lets be frank about it: if lots of teams had had bids rejected people would know about it. I don't know for certain of course, but it would be naive to assume that there is a bidding war going on at £5-6m between a host of teams without any news outlet knowing a thing.

Plus Berbatov has come out saying he was told he could go for £5m, if this is the case and no bids have come in at that amount then again I'd say it's highly unlikely a host of teams are offering less than £5m.

I'm not saying anything as fact of course, but on a balance of probabilities it seems far more likely that no real bids have been made.
 
EricaNo7 said:
I remember making a post in about March, I think, saying I hoped Fergie knew what he was doing, and how awful it would be if we were to lose the league on goal difference, bearing in mind a striker of Berba's quality wasn't even on the bench .

So why do you think Berba has been left off the bench so many times? Can't be his training prowess surely?
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That is really interesting. Yes, he could have scored those 8 goals (most likely not). On the other side, him in the team in place of Danny/Chicha mean that he could have underperformed as usual and we could have lost some other points. We cannot change the past and clearly we do not know how things would have turned if he would have played more.

On the other side, if he's that good as you are saying, any idea why not a single club is making a 5M offer for him? Yes he's on the last year of contract, but that didn't stop clubs making bids on the past.I'm sure that RVP will be sold for more than 20M, we bid 16M for Young, Nasri cost 25M. Why no-one is even attempting to sign the best player of all time for 5M?
 
finneh said:
Lets be frank about it: if lots of teams had had bids rejected people would know about it. I don't know for certain of course, but it would be naive to assume that there is a bidding war going on at £5-6m between a host of teams without any news outlet knowing a thing.

Plus Berbatov has come out saying he was told he could go for £5m, if this is the case and no bids have come in at that amount then again I'd say it's highly unlikely a host of teams are offering less than £5m.

I'm not saying anything as fact of course, but on a balance of probabilities it seems far more likely that no real bids have been made.
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I dont know about that. I dont think it is naive to think there is movement on this behind the scenes. If there isnt, it is more likely to be about wages than people not wanting to shell out £5m.

Ill be frank: I couldnt disagree more with the assertion that "he isnt really rated anymore". I see no evidence at all for it. I am sure he will end up somewhere pretty decent and he will do well. He might have to take a pay cut and that might cause some delay.
 
Remember that Blackpool game in 2011, when we were 2-0 down. Such a great comeback that was. We were fantastic in the 2nd half.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I dont know about that. I dont think it is naive to think there is movement on this behind the scenes. If there isnt, it is more likely to be about wages than people not wanting to shell out £5m.

Ill be frank: I couldnt disagree more with the assertion that "he isnt really rated anymore". I see no evidence at all for it. I am sure he will end up somewhere pretty decent and he will do well. He might have to take a pay cut and that might cause some delay.
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Well, if he's that good as some of his fan base are saying there should tens of clubs making that offer to get him (and willingly paying his wage). But maybe he's not that good, maybe he's not even near the level some of you are saying.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I dont know about that. I dont think it is naive to think there is movement on this behind the scenes. If there isnt, it is more likely to be about wages than people not wanting to shell out £5m.

Ill be frank: I couldnt disagree more with the assertion that "he isnt really rated anymore". I see no evidence at all for it. I am sure he will end up somewhere pretty decent and he will do well. He might have to take a pay cut and that might cause some delay.
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I have to make a slight caveat to my comment after re-reading: I don't mean no-one would rate him at any price at all, I meant that no-one is rating him at the small transfer fee that has been set and at the wages he obviously wants.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Well, if he's that good as some of his fan base are saying there should tens of clubs making that offer to get him (and willingly paying his wage). But maybe he's not that good, maybe he's not even near the level some of you are saying.
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Maybe he isnt as good as some people are saying, maybe people are reticent because he has not played much football for the past 18 months, maybe his wages are much higher than RVPs, maybe people have shown an interest in buying him but the whole thing is being dealt with in quiet and the media are less interested in a United reject that will probably end up going abroad for a small fee than they are in an Arsenal crown jewel who is leaving the club against its wishes, having scored a shit load of goals, and may well end up at one of the Manchester clubs.
 
finneh said:
I have to make a slight caveat to my comment after re-reading: I don't mean no-one would rate him at any price at all, I meant that no-one is rating him at the small transfer fee that has been set and at the wages he obviously wants.
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I repeat, I suspect this is a wages issue. Clearly you are not a Berbs fan, and that is fair enough. But even his detractors must presumably feel he represents value at £5m, all other factors being equal? I mean, £5m does not buy you much these days. Top scorer a couple of seasons ago, that fact speaks for itself. So it is wages. Eventually he will probably have to accept a wage cut, or else go to China or the Middle East or something.
 
finneh said:
The most bizarre thing about the deluded cult of Berbatov lovers is that they still feel we would have scored 8 additional goals with Berbatov in the team, whilst at the same time not conceding any more. They clearly know much more about team selection than Sir Alex.
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Maybe we would have scored more goals if Berba had played.

There were times last season when Rooney loooked tired and jaded and was, for the most part of some matches, ineffective. If anyone else had played like that Fergie would most likely have taken them off the pitch and benched them for the following match. In some matches his failure to play another striker in Rooney's place may quite well have cost us some goals.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
That is really interesting. Yes, he could have scored those 8 goals (most likely not). On the other side, him in the team in place of Danny/Chicha mean that he could have underperformed as usual and we could have lost some other points. We cannot change the past and clearly we do not know how things would have turned if he would have played more.

On the other side, if he's that good as you are saying, any idea why not a single club is making a 5M offer for him? Yes he's on the last year of contract, but that didn't stop clubs making bids on the past.I'm sure that RVP will be sold for more than 20M, we bid 16M for Young, Nasri cost 25M. Why no-one is even attempting to sign the best player of all time for 5M?
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No one is saying hes the best player of all time, for heavens sake. Some of us just think he should have been given more of a chance. Compare to Rooney who is played almost every game and sometimes is atrocious! And underperformance as usual? He wasn't under performing when he kept us at th top of the league by himself when brat Rooney was stropping like a little jug eared scouser.

I've just realised that half my posts in this thread are in riposte to ones like yours saying rubbish like he underperforms AS USUAL!
 
EricaNo7 said:
No one is saying hes the best player of all time, for heavens sake. Some of us just think he should have been given more of a chance. Compare to Rooney who is played almost every game and sometimes is atrocious! And underperformance as usual? He wasn't under performing when he kept us at th top of the league by himself when brat Rooney was stropping like a little jug eared scouser.

I've just realised that half my posts in this thread are in riposte to ones like yours saying rubbish like he underperforms AS USUAL!
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:lol:

It's the truth Erica. Even in that half season, our main attacking player was Nani nor him. He scored important goals in what 5-6 games that season. In his first two seasons, better to don't talk how bad was he.

You ignored my second paragraph. If he's that good, why do you think he's still here when an offer of 5M could be enough for some club to get him.

And of course that you're not saying that he's the best ever but still some of the comments are ridiculous. He's too good for bench, we ruined his career, shame for him how he spent his best years at a wrong club, he's better than Chicha and Welbeck, he would had won us the title if he would have played more, he won us the title in 2011 are just some of the exaggerated comments on him.
 
EricaNo7 said:
No one is saying hes the best player of all time, for heavens sake. Some of us just think he should have been given more of a chance. Compare to Rooney who is played almost every game and sometimes is atrocious! And underperformance as usual? He wasn't under performing when he kept us at th top of the league by himself when brat Rooney was stropping like a little jug eared scouser.

I've just realised that half my posts in this thread are in riposte to ones like yours saying rubbish like he underperforms AS USUAL!
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Berbatov got his fecking chances and couldn't deliver on a consistent basis. Even his good half a season included 10 games without a goal. Why the flying feck do you think he was dropped for the CL final and sat on the bench for the second half of 10/11 and 11/12!
 
I dont think those claims are outlandish at all.

  • He's too good for bench
    I think he is.
  • we ruined his career
    A tad emotive. It would have been better for his career if he had never come to United, I think that is a fair comment. But this is only obvious in hindsight. He was ambitious, he wanted to play here and he took a chance. It didnt work out, I doubt he regrets taking the chance, tho if he had known how it would work out, maybe he wouldnt have bothered.
  • shame for him how he spent his best years at a wrong club
    It is. See above.
  • he's better than Chicha and Welbeck
    He is a very different player. And he is much older, in his prime while the other two are learning their trade. But I dont think this is a far fetched claim at all.
  • he would had won us the title if he would have played more
    That is entirely possible but impossible to prove one way or the other.
  • he won us the title in 2011
    Everyone who played contributed to that. But he scored a lot of goals for us in half a season. His contribution should not be underestimated.
 
pocco said:
:lol: Berbatov is not better than Welbeck. Its so frustrating that people can't see this. He's being sold for £5 million after flopping big time. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee.
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What's Welbeck done to prove he's a better player? Berbatov contributed to us winning 2 titles in 3 years then was out in the cold for another. Welbeck had an alright loan at Sunderland and a promising season for us last year. Still a long way to go.
 
Orton said:
What's Welbeck done to prove he's a better player? Berbatov contributed to us winning 2 titles in 3 years then was out in the cold for another. Welbeck had an alright loan at Sunderland and a promising season for us last year. Still a long way to go.
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Welbeck showed more last season than Berbatov has in his whole time here. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Welbeck will go on to be a much better player and will have a great career at the top level, something Berbatov failed to do when given the chance. Just you wait and see.
 
I'm not denying that he will go on to become a better player, but right now he still has some way to go. Plenty of time on his side though. Berbatov's 10/11 season was much better than Welbeck's 11/12 for us.
 
pocco said:
Welbeck showed more last season than Berbatov has in his whole time here. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Welbeck will go on to be a much better player and will have a great career at the top level, something Berbatov failed to do when given the chance. Just you wait and see.
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I know that your comment is no aimed at me. But just to be clear, I am in no way disputing that. Right here and now though, I think Berbs is probably the better player, allowing for the fact they are very different players, and you would choose which one you wanted depending on what you already had, and what you were looking for. No doubt Welbeck is a better fit with our style and our squad.

Or, put another way:

What Orton said.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I dont think those claims are outlandish at all.

  • He's too good for bench
    I think he is.
  • we ruined his career
    A tad emotive. It would have been better for his career if he had never come to United, I think that is a fair comment. But this is only obvious in hindsight. He was ambitious, he wanted to play here and he took a chance. It didnt work out, I doubt he regrets taking the chance, tho if he had known how it would work out, maybe he wouldnt have bothered.
  • shame for him how he spent his best years at a wrong club
    It is. See above.
  • he's better than Chicha and Welbeck
    He is a very different player. And he is much older, in his prime while the other two are learning their trade. But I dont think this is a far fetched claim at all.
  • he would had won us the title if he would have played more
    That is entirely possible but impossible to prove one way or the other.
  • he won us the title in 2011
    Everyone who played contributed to that. But he scored a lot of goals for us in half a season. His contribution should not be underestimated.
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Another point of view:

He's too good for benchDepended who are other players and in what team. At United, when there are Rooney, Chicha, Welbeck and Kagawa for 2 spots he should find himself lucky if he is in the bench. In Aston Villa he would have been too good for bench.

we ruined his career

No, he was well payed, won 2 medals and played with some wonderful players. He played in the second best club in the world in those years. It wasn't that exactly Barca, Real, Bayern were interested for him. Only City made a bid for him.

shame for him how he spent his best years at a wrong club

It is not. See above.

he's better than Chicha and Welbeck

He isn't better than any of them. Chicha in 2010-2011 and Welbeck in 2011-2012 shown more than what has shown him in all these years.

he would had won us the title if he would have played more
That is entirely possible (most likely not) but impossible to prove one way or the other.

he won us the title in 2011

Everyone who played contributed to that. But he scored a lot of goals for us in half a season. His contribution should not be overestimated.
 
pocco said:
What makes Berbatov the better player currently? The fact that, even at this stage, Welbeck fits into our style and is more effective than him makes that less clear cut than you'd like to think.
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More effective in what way? Berbatov started 5 games in the league last season and scored 7 goals. Welbeck started in 23 and scored 9.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
How can you say with such conviction who has or hasnt shown an interest in him? For all we know we have had numerous bids which we have turned down. I am not saying this has happened, just that we cant know. So to say he is suddenly not rated by anyone aside from a small pocket of United fans is pure conjecture.
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Sir Alex has said nothing has happened with Berbatov, that was at the beginning of the month.

Clubs in a bidding war for him would most likely count as something.
 
pocco said:
What makes Berbatov the better player currently? The fact that, even at this stage, Welbeck fits into our style and is more effective than him makes that less clear cut than you'd like to think.
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Hang on, if that is aimed at me, I have pointedly steered clear of implying it is clear cut. I was originally responding to Ismail, who described the notion that Berbs is better than Welbeck (and Chicarito) as "ridiculous" and an "exaggerated comment".

I said "I dont think this is a far fetched claim at all." And then went perhaps a step further by saying "Right here and now though, I think Berbs is probably the better player". Which is hardly implying it is clear cut.

If you werent talking to me then fine.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Another point of view:

He's too good for benchDepended who are other players and in what team. At United, when there are Rooney, Chicha, Welbeck and Kagawa for 2 spots he should find himself lucky if he is in the bench. In Aston Villa he would have been too good for bench.

we ruined his career

No, he was well payed, won 2 medals and played with some wonderful players. He played in the second best club in the world in those years. It wasn't that exactly Barca, Real, Bayern were interested for him. Only City made a bid for him.

shame for him how he spent his best years at a wrong club

It is not. See above.

he's better than Chicha and Welbeck

He isn't better than any of them. Chicha in 2010-2011 and Welbeck in 2011-2012 shown more than what has shown him in all these years.

he would had won us the title if he would have played more
That is entirely possible (most likely not) but impossible to prove one way or the other.

he won us the title in 2011

Everyone who played contributed to that. But he scored a lot of goals for us in half a season. His contribution should not be overestimated.
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Fair enough. Reasonable points to make and entirely defensible point of view.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I dont think those claims are outlandish at all.

  • we ruined his career
    A tad emotive. It would have been better for his career if he had never come to United, I think that is a fair comment. But this is only obvious in hindsight. He was ambitious, he wanted to play here and he took a chance. It didnt work out, I doubt he regrets taking the chance, tho if he had known how it would work out, maybe he wouldnt have bothered.
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This sums you up. You blame the club, not the player
 
pocco said:
:lol: Berbatov is not better than Welbeck. Its so frustrating that people can't see this. He's being sold for £5 million after flopping big time. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee.
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Berbatov is a better player than Welbeck. Welbeck is more suited to us right now.
 
Ekeke said:
Sir Alex has said nothing has happened with Berbatov, that was at the beginning of the month.

Clubs in a bidding war for him would most likely count as something.
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I dont believe a single word that comes out of SAF's mouth, he is renowned for misleading the press if he thinks it is in there interests of the club to do so. If he thinks this business needs to be conducted off the radar then he will say nothing is going on so that nobody starts looking at what is going on.

I mean, maybe nothing is happening. But SAF saying nothing is happening is hardly definitive evidence is it.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I dont believe a single word that comes out of SAF's mouth, he is renowned for misleading the press if he thinks it is in there interests of the club to do so. If he thinks this business needs to be conducted off the radar then he will say nothing is going on so that nobody starts looking at what is going on.

I mean, maybe nothing is happening. But SAF saying nothing is happening is hardly definitive evidence is it.
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When Berbatov had his facebook outburst, surely he'd have mentioned if clubs were after him too. Instead he's just talking about £10 million and £5 million prices
 
Ekeke said:
This sums you up. You blame the club, not the player
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It sums me up, does it? As a person and as a poster.

Er... well, I guess I blame SAF as far as this specific transfer debacle has turned out. On the basis that he is the manager and the buck stops with him for the good and the bad. He deserves the credit for everything good that has happened in the last 25 odd years, but also for the much smaller number of things that have gone wrong. He bought a player with very specific qualities and attributes, having gone after him doggedly for a long time, and then it turned out he was incompatible with the team. So yes, I blame SAF for that. As for Berbs, I think he played well and was not given the chances commensurate with his performances, although I also accept there could be elements to the story that are out of public view (training, off field attitude etc).

I dont really blame Berbs, no. But blame seems like the wrong word, anyway. He came, it didnt work out, he will leave, I wish him the best. Its not like I am sitting here writing sternly worded letters to SAF about it. Shit happens.
 
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